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Redemptors look like they went up, the Chaplain on Bike (though not the Outriders, so I wonder what he was paired with to merit a price hike) as well. I didn't really use either, though I have plans for them both in lists. I think Centurion Devs went down which is interesting. I don't have any and never used 'em, but it gives food for thought. Veteran Intercessors still make me laugh even though their points (and forgetting how to secure objectives) hasn't changed. The Storm ____ Strike Speeders all went down, and I was already thinking about taking some of them. Gladiators went down and were already trying to get in my lists, too. I'm guessing they must not be selling very well to players already pretty salty over the Repulsors and Land Raiders.

These point changes did nothing. Old 8th edition factions without a new codex are almost unplayable. They stand no chance against armies with 9th edition codexes. The only way to play AM now is with 360 conscript white shields models. Any vehicle is easily blown off the table, and if it has 10 wounds your opponent now gets 2VP, which is pretty much every AM vehicle, except sentinels.

I honestly don't know.
I play almost exclusively Crusade & haven't looked to see what my 2k lists now weigh in at.
I suppose I'll be surprised the next time I go to play matched....

ccs wrote:
I honestly don't know.
I play almost exclusively Crusade & haven't looked to see what my 2k lists now weigh in at.
I suppose I'll be surprised the next time I go to play matched....

QFT, 90% of my 9th edition games have been PL based Crusade games, due to Corona and moving it's been quite a while since I did an actual points based game, I haven't even played with my Orks and DG Codex, yet.
Points costs these days are usually of little concern, this isn't 7th Edition anymore, balance is good enough to make up a themed list and then see what points value Battlescribe spits out and then refine to make it 2000.

Point changes did very little to me.

My SW lists are now 25-30 points cheaper which means I can just add a few upgrades here and there.

With orks I'm in the range of being 30ish points below the budget to 50ish above it, depending on the lists I'm taking. No big deal either way, I'll just refine my lists, not really changing anything.

With both armies I'm not bringing units I wasn't bringing before and I'm not dropping anything I was already using either. I'm just more encouraged to play units that being overcosted I wasn't using very often. That's it.

Breton wrote:
Veteran Intercessors still make me laugh even though their points (and forgetting how to secure objectives) hasn't changed [...] Gladiators went down and were already trying to get in my lists, too. I'm guessing they must not be selling very well to players already pretty salty over the Repulsors and Land Raiders.

Veteran Intercessors are just an example of utter incompetence of whatever joker who failed to make Primaris interesting for two editions now. They really should just be not-Sternguard (give them special issue bolt rifles with similar buff to Sternguard guns, as well as new combi-flamer/plasma rifles BT have now) and not-Vanguard (Assault ones, give them all access to power weapons like BT sword dudes). There, done, was it so hard GW?

Edit: As for Gladiators, they were made a joke by new Hammerhead. Enjoy your "superheavy" laser doing all of ~5 damage, no ignoring ++ or buckets of mortal wounds, for 40% more than nearly identical Tau chassis with OP gun costs. Oh, and only BT can supplement its meager firepower with an MM for some reason. Balance AND competent rule writing in one brilliant package!

CSM down 2 PPM, Warp Talons down 3 PPM. So, my average Battalion now has about 60 more points to play with. Yay?

I’ve been playing crusade all of 9th, so no clue.

I’ve not seen a full breakdown of the changes, just the highlights from WarCom.

What is "Points"? We only know Power Level in these parts.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
CSM down 2 PPM, Warp Talons down 3 PPM. So, my average Battalion now has about 60 more points to play with. Yay?

That's a whole extra CSM squad! Hooray.

IG:
To quote TableTop Tactics, "they almost may as well have not bothered". Doubly so for me, since I don't use Banewolves, LRBTs, Manticores, or Deathstrikes in my list.

The changes to Death Guard more or less screwed me over.

At this point it's just lol-listing for me when playing Death Guard.

I tend to take Gladiator Reapers to go along with my Redemptors so the point changes kind of balance out there. I swear, for how I roll dice the Heavy Onslaught Cannon is the most effective anti-tank gun in my entire aresenal.

I am looking at my Centurion Devastators again though, a 45 point drop for the squad is tempting.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
CSM down 2 PPM, Warp Talons down 3 PPM. So, my average Battalion now has about 60 more points to play with. Yay?

You put 20 Warp Talons in your lists?

The Necron changes are pretty impactful and do also affect units that were already seeing play, but the issue still exists of all of the HQ models being overcosted, alongside, well the majority of the Codex still.

Unless GW plans to do bigger rules shake-ups in the balance dataslates I'm not sure what else they can do to encourage different unit usage because they clearly don't want to go down to route of 8th edition and massive sweeping points drops.

Certainly I think the majority of the points drops (the vehicle and LoW ones basically) are actually irrelevant as people will continue to not take those units because they clash with how 9th currently plays.

Yay my Cent Devs are cheaper!... while they collect dust on my self because of a lack of CORE or Bolter Discipline (Mine are Full Bolter), other then that its a "Meh".

As long as my lists are +/- 50 points I don't care, cuz I'm not changing my list.

The Newman wrote:
I tend to take Gladiator Reapers to go along with my Redemptors so the point changes kind of balance out there. I swear, for how I roll dice the Heavy Onslaught Cannon is the most effective anti-tank gun in my entire aresenal.

I am looking at my Centurion Devastators again though, a 45 point drop for the squad is tempting.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
CSM down 2 PPM, Warp Talons down 3 PPM. So, my average Battalion now has about 60 more points to play with. Yay?

You put 20 Warp Talons in your lists?

Usually around 10.

Wait......you put Gladiators in yours?

Not really much change at all, definitely not worth the effort.

My Ravenwing save a few points with Black Knights, and I may consider the flyers now, but nothing impactful overall.

Ravenguard nothing

Iron Warriors..a few points from Oblits, nothing substantial.

Eldar cheaper with wraiths and hemlock, but pointless since we're getting a new book soon anyway.

This is what is going to be vomited out every 6 months?
Bad decisions on old tournament data, and fixing the draft versions of recent books like Custodes with no data?

Affect on me: Hmm. Maybe I was wrong to be so fervently anti PL.
If this is what they're going to produce and charge money for, maybe there's no point in chasing this dragon anymore.

Voss wrote:

If this is what they're going to produce and charge money for, maybe there's no point in chasing this dragon anymore.

Yeah. Maybe if we play with some kind of "Blanket, board-wide 5++ save" USR, we can maybe have a game that lasts longer than 3 turns.

Death Guard got shitcanned

Quick look through the factions I've been playing most recently suggests it has had zero impact on me. Which is a problem, because in general the factions I've been playing are regarded as being underpowered (and indeed are all in the bottom 3rd of the regular metawatch updates). As far as I can tell there wasn't a single points change in several of these factions, so big waste of $30-40 for me.

In general, it seems these "balance passes" are mainly focused on tuning *down* overperforming armies rather than tuning up underperforming ones. In general it seems like each of these matched play updates will only ever really attempt to buff a single faction at a time, this time the Necrons got a turn at it, but Guard and some others didn't get jack.

 Blackie wrote:
Point changes did very little to me.

My SW lists are now 25-30 points cheaper which means I can just add a few upgrades here and there.

With orks I'm in the range of being 30ish points below the budget to 50ish above it, depending on the lists I'm taking. No big deal either way, I'll just refine my lists, not really changing anything.

With both armies I'm not bringing units I wasn't bringing before and I'm not dropping anything I was already using either. I'm just more encouraged to play units that being overcosted I wasn't using very often. That's it.

What units do you use that changed?

My Dark Angels Ravenwing list that I had planned got 70 points cheaper with the drops to Black Knights and Storm Speeders. My Deathwing list is unchanged.

My Sisters list that I ran in a recent GT went up by 70 points or something. Ouch. Probably back to the drawing board for me with that army, as there's nothing in the list that I could just straight up drop.

I didn't have any concrete plans for my other armies; Space Wolves are an army I'm building up and looking into lists but I didn't have any hard and fast plans for the army yet. Redemptors going up bites, and we all knew Jump Pack Wolf Guard were going to go up, so my most competitive plan got a bit of a kink in it. Plus Cyberwolves lost some utility with the new missions/secondaries, but I don't have any of those yet anyways. I'm actually looking at ThunderCav a bit more now.

 Irbis wrote:

Breton wrote:
Veteran Intercessors still make me laugh even though their points (and forgetting how to secure objectives) hasn't changed [...] Gladiators went down and were already trying to get in my lists, too. I'm guessing they must not be selling very well to players already pretty salty over the Repulsors and Land Raiders.

Veteran Intercessors are just an example of utter incompetence of whatever joker who failed to make Primaris interesting for two editions now. They really should just be not-Sternguard (give them special issue bolt rifles with similar buff to Sternguard guns, as well as new combi-flamer/plasma rifles BT have now) and not-Vanguard (Assault ones, give them all access to power weapons like BT sword dudes). There, done, was it so hard GW?

I would have gone a different way. I would have given Veteran Intercessors (and Sternguard) as well as some other units - Terminators, Ravenwing (maybe all bikes but definitely the Ravenwing ones), Nobz and other Elite (Non-Character) Boys - basically the stuff that either acts as troops, or are elite versions of Troops - Objective Secured if you're playing with ObSec on their Datasheet. I might even tie ObSec into CORE - assuming CORE is properly dispersed among all armies. Its fairly easy to make a case for Dreads and Jump Packers to "secure objectives" in the stories - like Aggripan? "securing" the final "objective" until his death in the Damnos incident so the rest could escape.

Edit: As for Gladiators, they were made a joke by new Hammerhead. Enjoy your "superheavy" laser doing all of ~5 damage, no ignoring ++ or buckets of mortal wounds, for 40% more than nearly identical Tau chassis with OP gun costs. Oh, and only BT can supplement its meager firepower with an MM for some reason. Balance AND competent rule writing in one brilliant package!

Vehicles were always something of a joke. I'm mostly OK with the Gladiator being different from the Hammerhead. I've got other things I do better than Tau, they should have things they do better than Marines. As long as it all washes, and few things are auto-take it works for me. Of course that isn't the case - I'm shocked Repulsors didn't take a nosedive in points. Even Land Raiders at 265 are a little pricy. Plus the Lancer isn't the one I'd be taking Gladiators for. I might pair one with a Reaper, but really I'm taking the Reaper first the Lancer as an after thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Affect on me: Hmm. Maybe I was wrong to be so fervently anti PL.

You say that like this isn't a plan to make us drive the shift to PL away from Points. Just like annoying us with the segregated transports isn't letting us tell GW when to finally squad Firstborn because we're tired of Sicarius not being able to lead the two units of Victrix Guard he's supposedly the captain of because he can't get in a Repulsor and they can't get in a Razorback.

I was surprised Firestrike turrets didn't go down. I was surprised Invader ATV's didn't go up. I remain surprised Eliminators are Heavy Support and not Elite. I think they'd get far more place in an Elite slot. but I don't see anyone giving up a HS slot for them now. I'm kind of surprised Hellblasters didn't go down. 5 Plasma Hellblasters vs 3 Melta Eradicators feels like it would kind of wash. I'm surprised Assault Squads didn't go down. I'm surprised they haven't given Reavers with both Grav Chutes and Grap Guns the JumpPack/Fly changeup - which is a better fix than a points change to get people to consider using them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
so big waste of $30-40 for me.

Its a big waste for everybody. The points changes should be a FAQ download. The campaign missions/maps should come in the campaign book.

Breton wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Point changes did very little to me.

My SW lists are now 25-30 points cheaper which means I can just add a few upgrades here and there.

With orks I'm in the range of being 30ish points below the budget to 50ish above it, depending on the lists I'm taking. No big deal either way, I'll just refine my lists, not really changing anything.

With both armies I'm not bringing units I wasn't bringing before and I'm not dropping anything I was already using either. I'm just more encouraged to play units that being overcosted I wasn't using very often. That's it.

What units do you use that changed?

With orks:

Kommandos (typically I field 2x5 or 3x5), scrapjets (typically 2), squigbuggy (typically 1) went up in points.

Meganobz (typically 5), killa kanz (3), battlewagons (1), kannonwagon (1) went down.

With SW:

TWC, Land raider and Wulfen went down. I don't play anything that went up.

Necrons feel different, we got "pay to win" Flayed Ones. Skorpekhs seem fair now

 Blackie wrote:
Land raider and Wulfen went down. I don't play anything that went up.

LandRaider looks the same to me. Maybe you missed it going down earlier. Or I'm blind.

Breton wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Land raider and Wulfen went down. I don't play anything that went up.

LandRaider looks the same to me. Maybe you missed it going down earlier. Or I'm blind.

Maybe it's -20 points for custodes only, I remember reading that land raiders went down somewhere. I need to double check this.

Wait? What happened to Death Guard to cause so many people to be annoyed? they nerf the terminators and not reduce the plague marines or something?