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My local group plays Alpha Strike the last Friday of every month, and occasionally on Saturday when our narrative campaign calls for all hands on deck (so far it has lost us the most units when we do this).

For Fridays, it's usually about 200-300 PV, but we also run in 70 minute intervals to try and get 3 games in the 4 hours we have.

So far we use the Multiple Attack Rolls to help replicate that variability that the Total Warfare rules have.

We've only added variable Skills the last couple games. It's been pretty normal to have everyone use set Skills to make it easier to add up and make it a little easier to get hits in.

We haven't introduced Formation Rules or Special Pilot Abilities as yet for our Friday Night Games, as that can be a bit of a headache to work out at times.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
I wonder if the Alpha Strike rules would work well with my old Mechwarrior pre-painted minis? Any thoughts?

Scale will be slightly off, but about 90% of the infantry I see used in Alpha Strike is from Dark Age. Sometimes rebased, sometimes not. It's a great way to get started and explore your options before buying the updated models. And far less jarring than on a hex map, where you take up two hexes.

What he said.

Our local game coordinator uses the Infantry ones all the time for like very light hovercraft. He also used the Xantos as a Super-Heavy when we were doing Classic.

So Infantry is good, Vehicles might be a bit questionable. Mechs will have bases which are just so big that it might be to your detriment for like fitting it in to place, etc.

We use Multiple Attack Rolls in our group.as it keeps some of that Classic Battletech feel as well as reducing dice rolls (when using appropriately grouped dice).

We had one guy one time rolling a bunch of dice all the same color for his 2D6 and picking out winning pairs from it.

Unfortunately, this was in our Narrative campaign, he was basically using a Heavy Company, and our leader was using a Medium Lance to hold him off (as well as the Assault Command Lance, eventually).

We lost a new pilot and Grasshopper that day, and our own Command Lance was shredded.

Picked up a Thunderbolt and Warhammer, though, so not a total loss.

catbarf wrote:I'd definitely be curious to see if there's an elegant way to replace table lookups and modifier computation. Or possibly even get away from the use of 2D6 resolution entirely while still keeping some level of bell curve distribution. Might see if I can homebrew something, but I still plan to do more Alpha Strike as-is and see if I can get some local wargaming newbies into it.

The only way to do that is to increase the number of dice all together. Reducing the dice only flattens the curve. Changing the size of the dice just changes the spread and reach of the curve.

I've seen someone who uses D12s to run his Alpha Strike games, and that bugs the math part of my brain that understands the reason for the Curve. It gets even worse with CBT as the Locations are built around that Curve.

LunarSol wrote:Alpha Strike feels like it really wants to be played at very large scales where I think the sweet spot is Lance vs Lance or Star vs Star kind of gameplay. The 2 Lance = 1 Star ratio makes that a little more difficult, though the timeline moving forward creates opportunities to mess with that if you were to do a middle ground system.

Our group usually has an objective of running 3 70-minue games on our Alpha Strike nights. USUALLY that's about a lance of Clan Mechs or a Star of Inner Sphere Mechs. One might be able to go higher if one went with lighter units.

 Flinty wrote:
Random question, can you play alpha strike on hex mats? Or is it just with scenery?

Looking for a pew pew game that can be played on the kitchen table with minimal setup time.

Mostly it's just dividing all the inches in half.

DropZone buildings also fit in pretty well, too.

If you have them, Monsterpocalypse might also be able to work.

And that's not also considering the buildings 3D printers have created for Battletech as well. Some of those are just amazing, and will work when you go to Classic, too.

 Eilif wrote:
Dropzone! That's the ones I was thinking of. They are 10mm but would probably look great as 6/8mm skyscrapers.

I suggested it because I use my Shaltarii hover tanks as Combat Vehicles, and I'm looking to convert the Infantry over to Battleforce Hexes in the near future.

For those who aren't aware of the sizes, here's a couple photos:


*Hopefully they work, it seems Google Photos is being a jerk for image addresses at present.
**Went back and got new links, hopefully they work better.

 Eilif wrote:
IIRC, Monpoc buildings are great for hex maps, and might look ok if they were the only buildings used, but they're going to be pretty dang small next to even properly sized 6mm buildings.

Good to know. No one locally plays MonPoc and I was just thinking of different sci-fi games that were nearly equivalent scale.

From the BatRep you provided, they actually look closer to map scale than 'Mech Scale.

Eilif wrote:Pics aren't showing, but I bet they DZC buildings would be great. Maybe just upload them to Dakka?

Got new links, so they should work now.

They aren't the buildings, just the tank and Infantry models compared to Battletech ones.

Eilif wrote: As for MonPoc, IMHO they really are map scale, not tabletop. If one already has a bunch of them, nothing wrong with using them, but they're not something I'd purchase for Alpha Strike.

Map Scale is based on the short length of a 30m hex being a little over 1 1/4" or 30mm. The Mechs when on a hex are MUCH larger than they would literally be. This is often used to describe Dropships as well as buildings, as officially, a landed Aerodyne Dropship is 5 Levels high and a Spheroid Dropships are 10 Levels high, both taking up 7 hexes (1 central and the 6 surrounding ones). This would lead to these units to be oddly proportioned. So 3rd party models are set up to either be properly represented on the map (map scale) or to the Battlmech (Mech scale).

LunarSol wrote:I guess I'm not sure how big Battlemechs are really supposed to be. Are we talking the new MonPoc buildings?

Mechs are 2 Levels tall, with each Level being about 6 meters in height. That means a Battlemech will be 7-12 meters in height. Obviously individual units will vary, such as the Locust and Stinger being closer to 7 meters tall while the Atlas and Annihilator are closer to 12 meters tall.

The real funny thing is that in CBT, Inner Sphere Mechs tend to be more fragile than Clan Mechs. However, with Alpha Strike, Clan Mechs tend to be more fragile than Inner Sphere Mechs. The XL Engine halves the available Structure for a Mech, and almost every Clan Mech has an XL Engine. Meanwhile, the only threat to an Inner Sphere Mech is if you roll a 2 on a Crit Roll to make it go boom, even on something that has way more Ammo Bays than it should like a Crusader.

Usually when making Alpha Strike lists, I've ended up with 4 Clan Mechs vs 5 Inner Sphere Mechs, where as, I can usually get up to 6 Inner Sphere Mechs with Classic. Obviously it boils down to specifics, but they are there.


As a side note, if you like customizing your Mechs, MegaMekLab's latest "test" version, 0.49.11, has an Alpha Strike Card customizer. It won't adjust the Skill, but it can get you the base PV, Stats, and Specials to use to the MUL Custom Card Creator to finish the difference. Too bad it requires a special version of Java to run (and only that Java installed).

One of the key take aways to remember about Battletech is that there is little reason why Force X couldn't use Force Y's units given enough time.

Salvaging Battlemechs, and even Combat Vehicles, has been a matter of course for centuries, for both the Inner Sphere AND the Clans. It's the ultimate example of recyclying in warfare.

Because of this recyclying, it's not unheard of for Spheroids to be using Clanner 'Mechs, though, though that is much more rare than them using units their nation creates or are created across several nations.

Yeah, file Celestial Mechs under that "no no" list, too.

Of course, one could just toss such things as "Era" and "Faction" and just set to Technology Levels and Types and go from there. Saves a LOT of headaches.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Good call on the Celestials. I doubt many people could be bothered to refit them to work with non-cyborg pilots either. Ditto for Society 'Mechs.

The only thing less likely to show up in various places would be a LAMs.

Well, the biggest problem is that they are designed with Small Cockpits, and while that is annoying, it isn't any more difficult than dealing with the Cramped Cockpit of the Stinger or Wolverine. It's not like they were designed with no Gyros and thus requiring DNI or EI to operate.

Still, it could boil down to someone pulling off a Tenshi or file it under "A Dezgra Battlemech is better than NO Battlemech".

And I believe the Septicemia was repurposed by other Homeworld Clans, but as Sarna notes, it is more due to the fact that it doesn't have the Nova CEWS hardwired in to it like its brother 'Mechs the Osteon (which actually is otherwise a great 'Mech) or Cephalus (which would only be considered bad by Clanners due to its teamwork focus).

Eilif wrote:I agree to an extent, but the lowest common denominator of "use whatever" can be the fast track to the sort of narrow optimization that strips the BT universe of what makes it so interesting. Play how you want of course, but far better I think to pick an era and faction and build to that. You can always include a few units outside that scope as salvage or some such.

Even an invented mercenary company can have some basic guidelines for force creation based on era, where/how it was created and who/where it has served.

Put another way: when not guided at least somewhat by narrative, Battletech/Alphastrike are likely to devolve into two players playing what is"best".
....
Ugh. Now that's the freeway to min max optimization hell.

Sorry, but after having played almost weekly (and a little bit more thanks to a narrative campaign) for the last 2 years, I have found the exact opposite to happen. While there are some who like to "optimize" by having Jumping Hunchbacks with Precision Ammo or run nothing but Timber Wolves (he REALLY likes them, even if he overheats them all the time), we haven't seen too many shenanigans, and that's even allowing for Custom designs.

A lot of that comes in to trusting your fellow gamers to obey the first rule of sportsmanship, "Don't be a D***". If you can't trust them to not be a jerk, why are you playing with them?

Albertorius wrote:I mean, it can if you want, certainly.

I haven't usually found it to be an issue, but that's down to the players, most certainly.

Thing is, I don't think that enforcing faction limits would help if a player wants to be an ass, as all factions have access to optimized stuff at any given period.

And that's true, too. There are times to enforce Faction and Era, and times where it really doesn't matter. It's not like there's hard lines in the rulebook about using Faction lines in Total Warfare like there are in every other wargame.

I haven't seen it in the Commander's Edition, but seen a few people talk about using it, so I believe it is a semi-popular house rule.

The Pilot die does reduce the amount of dice you have to roll. It can even make the rest of the rolls rather pointless, though (ex: if you roll a 1, and need 8, for example).

cpugeek13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It sure does.

Yeah, I saw that it says they are included there, but when I’ve looked at listing on some e-shops (including Catalyst’s), they only list the 8 pilot cards and don’t mention anything about the AS cards.

Odd. The one I got last year has them. And it's not like one cannot use the MUL to get more. It's the Beginner Box that doesn't carry the Alpha Strike Cards, so that might be what is causing the confusion.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Our group uses a little dice we leave next to each unit after it moves. It helps track who has moved and is still left, and you leave it on the TMM for the unit so target acquisition is easy for the opponent. The most you usually add is range and terrain. We usually add the BA, STL, MAS, VTOL and other such mods into the TMM marker die.

We do similar as well. It's mostly a holdover from our Classic Battletech play, which includes the colored dice for Attacker Movement type.

STL is hard to add to the TMM die if you're dealing with different ranges, though.

The unboxing video I saw doesn't show them having any.

I never got it because I'm still behind on my Mech collection (but I'm getting closer, just 2 Clan Stars and the Level IIs left aside from the Merc Packs). And even with that, I'm not a fan of the size of base they are on. I've gotten some of the old metal Elementals (and IS Standard BA) and put them on 3/4" Fender Washers, and they can fit in a hex easier with the Mechs they are Mechanized with or going to be doing Anti-Mech Attacks with.

Here's a perspective picture with one next to a CGL Mech and Ironwind Protomechs:

Yeah, I never had a hex base that I thought was a proper Infantry size, and since Infantry don't have a Facing, it isn't technically NEEDED for them.

But that also means that a $2 order can make 3 individual units on the table, too, which is just icing.

 Flinty wrote:
What about either the knees or shoulders in a spot colour? Mustard yellow or purple might work well. Alternatively do the old favourite of doing one arm or leg in a different colour. A grey or red?

Something like that. A contrasting color to the blue if you want it to pop out or complimentary color if you want to be more subtle about it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"The UM-R65LL, commonly known as the 'Urbie Long Legs', is a rare variant born of a tangled web of manufacturing licenses that saw elements of the original UM-60 design sitting under strict intellectual property holds, requiring the smaller manufacturers to improvise. Shifting to an AC/5, the 'Urbie Long Legs' has a slightly larger engine that, when combined with its non-standard longer legs, allows it to achieve a top speed akin to most Inner Sphere Assault 'Mechs. Unfortunately the reduction in firepower tends to leave it lagging behind in all but policing duties."

I haven't tested whether downgrading the AC/10 to an AC/5 allows you to bump the engine rating up, but that just came to me.

It leaves 4 tons free to work with. Due to being a Light Mech and having a very low Walk to begin with, if you pumped as much in to Speed as possible without reducing anything else, you can get CBT Walk up to 4 (8"M) with 1/2 ton left. This could be used to upgrade the Small Laser to Medium, a second Small Laser, or improve the Jump Capacity to 3 (or 6"J).

In Alpha Strike terms, it goes from 4"J to 8"/4"J (without adding the 3rd Jump Jet) with a TMM of 1. Short Damage is reduced by 1, but Long Damage is increased by 1 (no matter if the Laser is changed or added to). If no Jump Jet is added, JMPW1 would be added as a Special.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wish Catalyst would make a new Mauler.

That, and along with the Hatomato-chi, is one of the reasons to do "faction" packs to try and catch up the last of the TRO 3050 mechs.

 Ghaz wrote:
So I can see a faction's Force Pack being released alongside a faction's Force Manual to drive interest in those books.

True.

The funny thing is the Striker Lance is already halfway to being a Combine Faction Pack.

However, as a side note, doing such a thing would be a Games Workshop-style release pattern. But then, it has worked for them for decades, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. And unless they are putting some "power-creep" variations of current chassis in there along with some new technology that begins breaking the game more than Heavy Lasers, ATMs, or HAGs could have, it won't be treading on the same excesses that GW has become infamous for.

Nice clean work there!

Show me where the tonnage rating is on an AS Card. At best all there is SIze.

The problem is Size doesn't tell you anything, and this carries on when you go in to CBT and include Clan Equipment versus Inner Sphere equipment. The equivalent of PV in CBT is Battle Value (BV).

That doesn't even consider all the extra abilities which won't be represented in Size, S, M, L, Armor, or Structure which can notably affect the game.

Such as the Sarath B which can add Heat to a Target on a turret, Overheat itself, and then hit in Physical with MEL and TSM as hard as your base Atlas, yet it weighs in lighter than a Wolverine.

So, PV is important. Skill is important (and taken in to account with Skill rating). But just as important is how well you use what you have.

Not everyone uses the MUL, just their Cards.

But let's compare 2 Mechs of the same weight :
Marauder MAD-3R

Timber Wolf Z

These are as separated as one can get without going in to Primitive Mechs. But you have to get the Marauder to Skill 0 to come close to matching the PV between them.

Hopefully the international distribution points they are setting up for the Mercenaries Kickstarter will improve the shipping of older materiel like the Commander's book, making it easier to order directly and/or be available at your local store.

There's the Cookbook, too. We've seen a copy of the final print of the Universe book, but not the Cookbook.

 Vulcan wrote:
Try using Classic BT movement and weapon ranges on hex maps, and use Alpha Strike rules for combat?

The weapon rules don't translate very well with that.

------------------------------
As a side note, the conversion notes state that if things don't seem to have good enough range, than you can use the normal 0-6 for Short, etc.

I find it useful when a scenario requires a large number of units on the field, like company v company, or company v 3 companies (yes, did that, it was rough).

It's also good for bringing in new players who are used to other games.

Still, it doesn't really do that "Boom, Head Shot!" feel like Classic does.

BrianDavion wrote:Maybe but at the same time the classic game can, understandably feel clunky to someone whose grown up playing more uhh.. "modern" table top games.

That's why I said Alpha Strike is good for those coming from that most popular sci-fi tabletop game (which is about the same age as Battletech).

AegisGrimm wrote:Definitely. Something like the Battle of Luthien against the Clans? Tukayyid?

I still remember the shock I had reading the scenario rules for the Battle of Kado-guchi Valley/Valley of Death.

Even Battleforce rules can barely handle it, and that was started with this scenario! A literal Battalion for each model on the field. SMH

I've been tempted to try and recreate this scenario with Alpha Strike for our group. It would have been more amazing at our old LGS, since we could pull 2 of the tables together easily to make it that much more epic. The place we changed to isn't as flexible.

Another good example is the SHD-2D Shadow Hawk. Rather pitiful when shooting in Classic, but pretty close to the Wolverine in Alpha Strike.