We iz goin' back ta Armour-Geddem! - Orks 11th Edition Tactics

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Jidmah**

Are you a new player? There is no need to read the entire thread! Just jump to the last page and ask away!

If you have things you think should be added to this post, PM me.

Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka wrote:'Humies is all weak scum that deserve ta get stomped. 'Cept for One-Eye Yarrick. He knows how ter fight."

I know, us orks don't like rules, but a couple of things should be said before starting:
- Tactics means trying to win the game with kunnin'. I know there are a lot of players who just want to toss some dice, watch their beautiful converted models, re-enact battles from the fluff and don't really care about who wins the game. I'm sure you are having great fun in your games, but your strategies might not work for someone facing optimized armies.
- It's safe to assume that the vast majority of games will be using the newest FAQs, points, matched play and data slates. Please don't base tactics on not using the most recent rule set.
- If you are looking for narrative advice, specifically say so. Unless stated otherwise it is assumed that current matched play mission pack is used to play.
- Keep in mind that not everybody has access to forgeworld models or rules.
- Legend rules are allowed in most places, but meant to enable people to play their old models. They have no place in competitive events. Don't suggest tactics based on legends entries unless around the person in specifically looking for such advice.
- Be clear about whether you are discussing army composition (looking for the best options), or whether you simply want to use a unit in an efficient way, even if it's not the best choice.
- Clarify whether you are discussing regular Matched Play or Tournament rules where it matters.
- There are communities and tournaments that do not allow certain things. The people looking for advice here cannot change that, so accept that they have to work around those limitations.
- Do not discuss GW's business practices in this thread.
- Do not discuss the number of releases other armies get in this thread. Especially not beakies.

- This thread is about 11th edition, if you do not like or even play 11th edition, that's a perfectly fine, but it's off topic for this thread.
- It is fine to agree to disagree.
- Back up your arguments.
- Provide links to blogs/videos/podcasts you are referencing
- If you need help with list-building, provide us with a list of models you have available
- Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya
- Orks never lose.
- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Eternal Boss Pole:
Thanks to the these awesome gits for providing content:

the_scrotsman
PiñaColada
hollow one
Waaaghbert
Emicrania
flandarz
An Actual Englishman
Grotrebel
Tomsug

Ork faction pack is up:

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_09-06_warhammer40000_faction_pack_orks-agh9kwrtno-0xarrl5fjj.pdf

Goonhammer review:
https://www.goonhammer.com/40k-11th-edition-faction-pack-review-orks

Core rules in case you missed them:
https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_01-06_warhammer40k_new40k_core_rules-was6fbu1ix-hfewhmxyiy.pdf

**Afrodactyl**

'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go!

**Forceride**

Ahh fresh discussion is good discussion.

Anyway i think i can say a few things
1. Lethality is expected to rise, MSU is order of the day.
2. Shooting is not bad, on the contrary it will be an acute case of haves vs have not's.
3. Speed is king and more so
4. Do not underestimate the value of -1ap, plenty of weapons will become valid because of this

For orks, fully expect the new rig and flashgits being the go too platforms, unless the rig is expensive, easy access to heavy and sustained for us is valuable. If everything else fails just go flamers, we have several options there, depending on cost.

I have my doubts on mechanised hordes, with recent nerfs to transport rules which favors 2w infantry, i think transporting 10boyz on a truck is not a good investment for the price... just get more boyz, unless something changes

i think in melee its about the same, hard to see how it changes, doc for nobz/breaka and flag for boyz, nob leader for boyz? warboss for elites? meganobz i wanted to check if we get flamers on combi or just rockets. The mega armor duo is interesting but expensive maybe for 3 meganoz only?

Unsure for the fliers bit on the fence. Also i think some stuff went to legends, correct me if i am wrong.

I can say with a bit confidence dread detach is pretty much dead unless it receives changes cobsidering how hazardous work and being a roll of 1-3

i am not seeing much synergy with 1dp and 2dp hope some one can correct me on that.

**Grimskul**

Thanks for setting this thread up Jidmah! New edition means new 'eads to krump!

I haven't had a lot of time to go over the new detachments overall, but some of them look about what we expected. War Horde is at 3DP, and then we have a smattering of 2DP alongside the ones they showcased already at 1DP. Personally, I think the one that seems the most disappointing and will require the codex update the most is Dred Mob. Making it so our units like Killa Kanz have a 50% chance to take 3 mortal wounds when choosing to use strats/choose our Button is pretty brutal and we'll have to be way more judicious when using it on our actual walkers. The fact that we also can't stratagem stack anymore also prevents a "go-turn" where our Gorkanaut goes full super saiyan and blasts units off the board with our wombo combo for shooting.

Noticeably, the change to how hazardous works does make Big Meks leading tankbustas less of a danger now that infantry only take 1 mortal wound per hazardous check, so 2W models are more resilient for when we push da button for them.

I've heard people saying so far some of the combo to go is More Dakka with Freeboota Krew for synergy, though we'll have to play around and see what works best with each other.

**Jidmah**

So, my brainsquig found a few things:

Ork boyz are still allowed to have two leaders... and one support.
Thrakka, pain boyz and ~~KFF~~ banner nob in one mob of 20 boyz seems mean.

Dread mob works on infantry models lead by a mek. Moar dakka works on infantry models.
Lootas can be lead by a mek, can move 3", sit top of a ruin for +1BS and hazardous now kills a loota instead of a KMB.
Ignore cover enhancement goes from garbage to decent. Blunderbuss SAG. Rapid fire tankbustas.
Meks can repair and buff dakkrigs.
MA mek can pick MANz even if he is the last survivor of the unit, and make sure to get a bunch of gretchin so you have enough CP for all those shooting stratagems.
An army based around dakkarigs, flash gits and maybe a naut or two, backed by super-charged lootas and tankbustas sounds fairly terrifying.

Burna bommers can remove cover on units, giving us +1 to hit on and objective holder. Good, maybe?

**Andykp**

I’m looking at a bunch of things and expecting lots to change up when the codex drops, like we don’t know what the boys mob is going to look like. Will the unit have 1 nob per 10 boys like guard units do. So a unit of twenty would be two nobs and 18 boys? The teased bikers nob had rockets like a combi weapon. I hope we can add war tracks to bikes like the accidentally shown data card said. It’s all very exciting.

And good catch in the burns bomber. Ignores cover is going to be very useful for orks this edition.

**Forceride**

Don't forget that burna bomber ability only comes to play at end of opponent turn.

If they come in at t2, that means it only affects the opponent at end of t3. that's asking quit a bit out of the plane.

**some bloke**

Looks like the Killkannon is back to reducing transport capacity on battlewagons, unless I missed that in our current rules.

Also worth noting that the old 4th-6th edition tactics for vehicles are back. Trukks can be deployed sideways, then rotate for free about their centre to gain about 1.5" of distance forward, then move without losing movement for the rotation.

Thus a trukk or battlewagon (they are similare gains, off the top of my head) can move 13.5" forward on turn 1.

Similarly, if you want to achieve the charge on your next turn, you can pivot at the end of a move to reduce the opponent's chances by 1.5".

edit to remove my own poor reading abilities ref. firing decks on the gargantuan squiggoth!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So looking at the potential now in the Blitz Brigade, and it's much more generic on transports now. There's a few stratagems which are battlewagon-centric, but there are some alternative options for it as well:

• Gorkamorkanauts. They are transports and they are walkers, and so meks can give them a slap with supercharged squig-oil and they get a rerollable charge.
• Trukk rush with rerollable advance or charge rolls would be a great trun 2 Waaagh!

Using it for its intended purpose, the added 1.5" from pivoting being back on the battlefield, combined with 1cp to disembark and charge after a move means turn 1 in-your-face is very achievable out of a battlewagon. The stratagem affects the wagon, not the unit disembarking, so you could throw multiple small units at the enemy for redundant charge rolls. 3 units of breaka boys in a battlewagon with a mek to hop out and give the wagon bonuses to charges with super squig oil for 1cp, getting 11.5" on the wagon, 3" on the disembark for 14.5", then an average of 7" on 4 rerollable charges (so call it 8") will expect engagement up to 22.5" away from turn 1.

Have a model with the Blitzkaptin enhancement and you can line up for this charge quite nicely, as you can redeploy 3 vehicles.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
With the cover rules being what they are now and with objectives becoming terrain, I can also see burna boys making a comeback.

Ignoring cover will be useful, auto-hits are also useful, and rerolling wounds vs targets on an objective (I.E. in cover) will make them surprisingly effective at clearing lighter units off of objectives, I think. Given that Lootas will be affected by the new cover rules, and all objectives are in cover, they might be pushed aside, maybe.

**Beardedragon**

The new rolling deff detatchment looks okay to me as support. The gizmo upgrade, to make a battlewagon ignore cover and have sustained hits on the waagh if a mek is embarked, doesnt look bad to me.

UNLESS this buff is not transfered to its embarked units?

Im thinking this upgrade on an open topped battlewagon with some tankbustas with a mek inside of it. Then a mini mek to give +1 to hit. That or some other shooty units, maybe flash gitz. This combo would then hit on 4s ignoring cover, and getting sustained hits (if you chose tankbustas and not flash gitz).

So if you want some shooty support this unit and detatchment could help. You could even double up on this with 2 battlewagons i would assume, since its an upgrade and you can take multiple of the same upgrade? Maybe im mistaken about that. The 11th edition rules are a bit blurry for me.

About the lootas, i think 11th edition will be a lot kinder to them than 10th edition was. Back then they would hit on 6s with full reroll on objectives but the AP1 didnt matter. Now they STILL only hit on 6s with full reroll since objectives are entire terrain pieces, and the AP1 actually does a thing now.

So all in all id say Lootas look better. Bigger objectives, and i never expected to hit on 5s in 10th anyway.

**some bloke**

I believe that targeting Gizmos, as an enhancement, is only allowed once per army and each model may only have one enhancement.

However, a battlewagon with the right guys inside would be extremely potent. One of the challenges we face is that a lot of our units shoot better outside of a battlewagon - tankbustas, burnas, lootas all have their own rules which buff shooting but don't roll over to the wagon.

For that reason, I'd be inclined to have the wagon dedicated to anti-infantry, because shoota boys don't get better for being outside the wagon. Slapping the wagon with a mek and then firing 11 rapidfire shootas with sustained hits and +1 to hit and ignores cover could be potent, without painting a huge target on the wagon.

I miss the old open-topped, where 20 models could fire...

An alternative would be 10 nobs, all with kombi weapons. Rapid fire within 12" for 20 shots, +1 to hit, sustained hits, 4+ to devastating-wounds infantry, ignores cover. That would clear any infantry off the board smartish! And then, if they do get shot out, or need to charge, they's still nobs!

**Beardedragon**

some bloke wrote:
I believe that targeting Gizmos, as an enhancement, is only allowed once per army and each model may only have one enhancement.

However, a battlewagon with the right guys inside would be extremely potent. One of the challenges we face is that a lot of our units shoot better outside of a battlewagon - tankbustas, burnas, lootas all have their own rules which buff shooting but don't roll over to the wagon.

For that reason, I'd be inclined to have the wagon dedicated to anti-infantry, because shoota boys don't get better for being outside the wagon. Slapping the wagon with a mek and then firing 11 rapidfire shootas with sustained hits and +1 to hit and ignores cover could be potent, without painting a huge target on the wagon.

I miss the old open-topped, where 20 models could fire...

An alternative would be 10 nobs, all with kombi weapons. Rapid fire within 12" for 20 shots, +1 to hit, sustained hits, 4+ to devastating-wounds infantry, ignores cover. That would clear any infantry off the board smartish! And then, if they do get shot out, or need to charge, they's still nobs!

Before freeboota krew got updated in 10th edition where you could pick your looted objective at the start of your own turn, i took a gargantuan squiggoth freeboota krew to a tournament. I got turn 2 all 5 games but essentially went 2-2-1. The last draw would 100% have been a victory if i had the update to put looted objective when i want to and not at the start of the battle round. Hell maybe i could have taken 4 victories, its hard to say really given how massive of a turd it was to go second back then.

Anyway, i will probably fiddle around with the gargantuan squiggoth a bit with 11th edition given it has both towering, blast from freeboota krew stratagem and open topped 20.Maybe some other detatchment could find use of this as well. Not as super competitive but it was fun and it actually sort of kind of worked. Oh and of course get this, its basically 10 inches long in a rectangle shape, so turn it sideways on the deployment line and suddenly get like 6-8 inches of free movement. This thing can essentially charge your opponents deployment zone turn 1.

I am SUPER scared of whether Dread mob is even remotely viable at all. Like, if im not mistaken they were just hard nerfed, because hazardeus got worse in 11th. If we have to take tests on 1's,2's and 3's that means every time you wish to push a stratagem or even pick a specific roll in a 10 man unit of lootas or what ever, half of them literally dies. From before when fewer would die. While i understand everyone has this change, the fact ours need to be worse also is a big nerf for a detatchment that didnt do that amazingly to begin with. The change be that infantry only take 1 mortal wound now, but a lot of our infantry already only has 1 wound only so this is just a big slap.

Imagine rolling hazard tests on vehicles just taking 3 mortal wounds on 1-3. You will literally destroy yourself and deal more damage to yourself than your enemy does.

I wonder what orks get in compensation for this, because i doubt anyone will ever pick a dread mob roll before shooting or push any stratagems anymore, unless its super duper important and you are okay with losing half your wounds or unit.

**some bloke**

I wonder if the intention for the hazardous thing for orks was that the meks would be fixing 1d3 per round, and trukks gain 1 per round, so it "sort of balances out" (it doesn't).

I have run triple-KMB dreads for a bit in 10th, and scored some great hits from them. Now, there's half a chance the dread outright dies when the KMB's explode. May have to try out triple-rokkit instead. Or triple-skorcha, given objectives = cover now.

**Forceride**

they mentioned points hikes and cuts for some specific situations

and also points for wargear and spam

I can see a world where boy bricks are viable and competitive if their generous

Same goes for meganobz and our foot characters

but the best part is the they will commit to balance month to month in the first quarter.

**Afrodactyl**

Forceride wrote:
they mentioned points hikes and cuts for some specific situations

and also points for wargear and spam

I can see a world where boy bricks are viable and competitive if their generous

Same goes for meganobz and our foot characters

but the best part is the they will commit to balance month to month in the first quarter.

My massed wagons and rigs fear the mentions of big vehicles and monsters getting points hikes....

However my 90 Boys and 30 Snaggas are looking promising

**Beardedragon**

Hopefully they will remember that despite 10th edition being over, many of our units dont have actual advantages even if we have vehicles, because we cant hit the broad side of a barn when shooting. Not during 10th and especially not with the new cover rules of 11th.

No one used gorkanauts in 10th and even with the new towering rules im unsure how much that changes. It definitely wont change if they over cost the unit.

I hope they are gentle with the orks who only rose to a decent win rate because of the salt water injection called Ghaz, 20 boyz, Big mek and warhorde in one 500 point combo.

**Tomsug**

MFM is out with the points

https://mfm.warhammer-community.com/en/orks?fbclid=IwVERFWASfRoVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeY_j7I0KmRefh3jVTuyWxGaJPQs_IxSpWRZ_v0Bj6K-numuAbCnpnaJOjiI0_aem_HGsF7gC1jwn0TaYA3ZLtNg

I don t see the dakkarig and no the wording “3rd + unit cost” is pure GW gold

**Beardedragon**

Holy christ some models definitely fell in price. I expected us to go up in price not down.

This is pretty good!

Cheaper Breaker boys yes please

THE STOMPA IS 600 POINTS LETS GO!

**Afrodactyl**

Somehow my list went down

Genuinely considering trying triple Stompa

Edit
Just seen that it's 2nd Stompa and beyond that's 700, not just the 3rd. Double Stompa it is then.

Right, obviously we've only just been given the points values and there's a new codex on the horizon, but what lists are people looking to take into the new edition at the moment? I'm genuinely considering running DBH and Rollin' Deff over War Horde for the extra AP on Prey units. Also, what should I spend my shiny new 60 points on?

Spoiler:

**some bloke**

Wow, the points have dropped for boys quite a bit as well!

Stompas being 600pts sounds like they might be viable in games for me now, I will have to try and make one again!

My 995pt green tide (4 units of 20 boys, painboy, warboss, 2 weirdboys) has dropped by quite a few points - 20 from each unit of boys, for a total of 80 points (85 with the 5 I had left over) to spend on a little bit more!

Reckon I might grab another Painboy or Warboss for that!

**Forceride**

all big meks are leader not support, that kinda sucked the wind out of my sails :|

ghaz warhorde combo also illegal now

**Beardedragon**

Yea i came here JUST to say that.

You cant do the old school ghaz wombo combo anymore.

Why big meks would be leaders dont really make sense but what ever.

Time to think different.

Also the app says Big meks can lead Flash Gitz, but the document doesnt say they can. I wonder which is right and who is wrong

**Jidmah**

What are you talking about? Boyz still have the ability to put two leaders on a unit of 20 boyz. Just because the app malfunctions doesn't mean you text written in the very same app doesn't apply anymore.

Flash gits is likely a glitch as well.

**Beardedragon**

Jidmah wrote:
What are you talking about? Boyz still have the ability to put two leaders on a unit of 20 boyz. Just because the app malfunctions doesn't mean you text written in the very same app doesn't apply anymore.

Flash gits is likely a glitch as well.

I think the text will be removed all together eventually so they cant have 2 leaders anymore.

But i guess rules as written its an app malfunction, which is good, given its a good combo that kept the orks alive. Whether its still directly needed i dont know, but i guess it doesnt hurt to have.

I mean lets be real many things havent translated well from 10th to 11th. Most our infantry still have grenades keyword instead of explosives, all our pistols are still pistol keyworded and not close quarters, and we will probably receive cleave keyword on a few more units than the big bosses and warbosses we have now.

**LunarSol**

No updates to Grenades coming right away. The strat is actually written so they didn't have to by requiring a unit with Grenades/Explosives keyword.

Triple MegaNobz math is beyond Orky Komprahension.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forceride wrote:
all big meks are leader not support, that kinda sucked the wind out of my sails :|

ghaz warhorde combo also illegal now

Actually a couple things going on here.

Boyz double leader rule doesn't work. Probably going to be removed but it definitely doesn't work with the app.

Painboyz actually ARE Support despite not being listed as Support. They're coded in the app as Support despite having the Leader keyword still and only listed as Support in the MFM so that stops them from working with the BannerNob regardless.

**Jidmah**

You also need to keep in mind that our codex is supposed to be released in September or October, so I doubt they will fix anything beyond simple bandaids. There is plenty of broken stuff right now across all codices - that's why they promised monthly updates and fixes for the next three months.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, I personally think it's hilarious how everyone is struggling with making sense of their codices after getting nothing but a half-arsed FAQs on launch.

Up till 8th edition, this was considered normal, and you could consider yourself lucky if you had any working rules left in your codex from three editions ago.

Having another messy old-school launch just shows how much GW has improved in the newhammer era.

**TedNugent**

Jidmah wrote:
So, my brainsquig found a few things:

Ork boyz are still allowed to have two leaders... and one support.
Thrakka, pain boyz and ~~KFF~~ banner nob in one mob of 20 boyz seems mean.

How do you figure?

A) the Armageddon box dataslate for Boyz does not have this bodyguards rule
https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_02-06_wh40k_armageddon_orks_datasheet_cards-b84uce3vph-vnbdl3pi91.pdf

B) the original 10th dataslate says two leaders - the Bannerboy with his S4 choppa is a support, not a leader. So is the painboy. The datasheet never said anything about 2 supports, and that's prohibited by the core rules. If you assume the final datasheet will have the original bodyguards rule - this would only allow, at most, a single support + 2 leaders. E.g. Warboss, Ghazghkull, and a Painboy, for example.

**ccs**

Afrodactyl wrote:

Right, obviously we've only just been given the points values and there's a new codex on the horizon, but what lists are people looking to take into the new edition at the moment?

I'll stick with my Rebel Grots (everything with the Grot/Gretchin KW save a few Trucks & a Wazbomb). As for the detachment? Dread Mob of course.
Now I just have to tally it up again.

Who knows, with the stuff in the new box I might even (eventually) field actual Orks this edition.

**Jidmah**

TedNugent wrote:

How do you figure?

Mostly because it's literally written in the updated rules section for the 11th edition faction pack, which is confirmed by the app itself.
The faction pack is linked in the first post, feel free to give it a read.
The datasheets in the Armageddon box have no relevance unless you play the exact army contained in that box, which has been confirmed by GW multiple times now.

Obviously, the doc was still a leader when I wrote this post, but you can still do Thrakka/Big Mek/Painboy now, which arguably is even better.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Afrodactyl wrote:
Right, obviously we've only just been given the points values and there's a new codex on the horizon, but what lists are people looking to take into the new edition at the moment?

I'm currently looking into running a list double-dipping dreadmob and moar dakka for a shooty mek horde. I'm still clarifying whether big meks joining flash gitz in the app is a bug or intended behavior.

**Beardedragon**

So, correct me if im wrong, but 11th edition does NOT have any rule that stops you from getting extra attacks on top of extra attacks?

10th edition said you couldnt get an extra attack from waagh on, like a wrecking ball.

But the way i see it in 11th now you can.

Pretty good for battle wagons, hunta rigs and kill rigs who all have like 3 different weapon profiles, getting 3 extra attacks on a waagh round.

**Jidmah**

Good catch. 11th edition in general dropped a lot of unintuitive rules which were trying to fix problems that could just have been a few extra points where it mattered.

Trukks still wreckin' balls so an extra attack there isn't bad either.