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The new nid codex faq is just released on the UK GW site.<?

http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/3/

In it they state that if a model within synapse range is wounded with a weapon more than double it's toughness, it is insta killed instead of only being wounded.  So a warrior would take one wound from krak missile, but would be killed out right by a lascannon.

Since GW seems to be making a distinction of weapons with strength exactly double a models toughness vs strength more than double a models toughness, does this mean that necron warriors will be able to roll for WBB against lascannons/rail guns/demolisher cannons?

As on pg 13 of the Necron codex the rules specifically state that the WBB is only negated by weapon in HtH that ignore armor saves and whose strength is double the necron concerned.

*Edited for spelling

 

They won't get the WBB against 9+ if they are consistent.

That appears to be the case so by RAW and the way it was ruled with synapse necrons WOULD get a WBB from str 9 or 10.

Posted By snooggums 08/15/2006 5:57 PM
They won't get the WBB against 9+ if they are consistent.

But that's exactly it - they WILL be consistent - if they rule that Necrons do get WBB against St 9+

The Tyranid Codex states that synapse only provides you immunity to instant kill against weapons that are double your toughness.

The Necron Codex states that WBB doesn't work against close combat weapons that ignore saves and weapons with a strength of double the toughness.

The implication, as its written in the Necron codex, is that against S9-10 weapons, they will get WBB.

Of course, that is not how it is typically played, but that is the RAW, as per the codex (if memory serves).  

Valid point. GW went into that FAQ with "ha we'll show them we didn't screw up" only to end up screwing another army in the process.

I agree that the Necrons should in fact get WBB rolls for lascannons now since it is now official to use the exact wording of the rules shown. The Necron dex states "or any weapons whose strength is twice the toughness of the necron concerned"...

Pretty clear to me. Str 8=no WBB, Str 9 and 10, roll those WBB like they are going out of style.

I disagree that an FAQ clause for one codex can change the rules in a different army's codex.

The RAW in the WBB case are quite clear. The fact that the same grammatical construction is used in the Nid case, does not alter the RAW in the Necron codex.

Str 8 is double toughness. Str 9 is more than double toughnss.

Str 8 is not == str 9.

Double toughness is not == more than double toughness.

Sounds like OP is on the button on this one. It /always/ should have been that way. Woops!

Maybe GW should start using consistent terminology (e.g. 'weapons that cause instant death' .

Hey, GW is the one making the distinction between a weapon that is double toughness and a weapon that is more than double toughness. I'm going to start rolling WBB for all wounds taken on a necron warrior from a Str 9+ weapons. Sweet, thanks GW!

The funniest thing about this FAQ answer to Nids is, didn't Andy Chambers once say that while he wanted Warriors to be more survivable, he wanted them to still die to a krak missile?

And now (after he's gone and the new codex has come out), krak missiles are one of the least effective heavy weapon against them?

kinda a mute point since everybody takes the orb anyway so they can do a WBB roll all the time.

I thought Res orbs were standard issue with Lords? I have yet to see one that does not take it.

I disagree that an FAQ clause for one codex can change the rules in a different army's codex.

But that's exactly the point: It's NOT changing the rules. The Tyranid Codex FAQ does nothing more than say 'Hey, we meant it to be played exactly as we wrote it.'

And since they wrote it the same for WBB, that means that they meant for Necrons to only lose WBB for weapons with a Strength double the target's Toughness, not greater... because that IS the RAW for WBB.

My brain hurts.

Yeah, the FAQ ruling doesn't actually change any rules, it just tells you how to read the rule as it's written, and both are written the same way.

Here's my two cents

A tyranid warrior is hit by a krak missile, and shields himself with the warp (synapse whatever rule), and it is not strong enough to kill it, even tho it is very strong. Another warrior is hit with a lascannon. This weapon is too powerful, and destroys the creature instantly.

A necron warrior is hit with a krak missile. The strong weapon instantly vaporizes the hunk o junk. It is hit with an even STRONGER weapon. It gets back up. WHAT?

My bet is that in a few weeks, GW will put out a new necron FAQ, that will change the line to say "so and so....does not get WBB from a weapon that would cause instant death/ignore armor saves in CC"

It makes sense, but it does say otherwise in the rules, so have fun necron players. I personally will not play a necron player until it is reworded/clarified, unless he also agrees that it is a bunk arguement. Just because GW clarified that the Nid rule means "only this", doesnt mean that necrons get the same thing. Plus, its a 3rd edition book, so phooey.

I doubt that since they have stated that 3rd edition books would not have any more FAQ's done for them.

My bet is that in a few weeks, GW will put out a new necron FAQ,

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *thud*

That's the funniest thing I have ever saw!!

-This is not a debate...this is indiviuals acting like fools for what seems to be no gain at all

-Even if the entire necron community accepts the "only no WBB on str8" B.S., good luck finding an opponent

-Short of having every codex torn asunder by thousands of english professors and rules lawyers there will be debatable issues, hence this forum, but sometimes i look at some of the twenty page topics only to find a verbal tennis match between two side only convincing themselves they are right.

-Some rules DO need some common sence applied, dangerous as it may seem.  Ask you opponent, pregame, "Can I not roll WBB on str9-10?".  If they suddenly turn around and flip on their gaming console of choice and suggest a game you can't bend the rules in, do be too surprised.

other than that Good gaming to you

Even if in friendly games people accept that necrons DO NOT get a wbb on Str 9 or 10 if it is ruled that way in a tournament you have to follow and the possibility is now out there. The only arguments against it are
1. Its not fair
2. Not how we have played it in the past
3. It makes no sense

None of these arguments really hold any meritt and if you were to let these arguments justify necrons not getting a WBB what is to stop these arguments from allowing other things??

-Some rules DO need some common sence applied, dangerous as it may seem. Ask you opponent, pregame, "Can I roll WBB on str9-10?". If they suddenly turn around and flip on their gaming console of choice and suggest a game you can't bend the rules in, do be too surprised.

There is no precedent for that. The makers of the game are acting like slowed monkeys, so what possible reason do we have to not do the same?

Really we need to find a way to get this FAQ overturned, and the authors fired/death-camped/sterilized.

"...The makers of the game are acting like slowed monkeys, so what possible reason do we have to not do the same?"

-We are respectable and intelligent people.  Acting like 'slowed monkeys' serves no purpose and has no place in this forum.

-I agree the wording is poor in the F.A.Q....give GW time to change it (if they are even aware of it).

Really we need to find a way to get this FAQ overturned, and the authors fired/death-camped/sterilized.

If Instant Kill rule was made a universal special rule as it is writen in the 4th ed 40k rule book it would fix the tyranid/necron issue.

-This is not a debate...this is indiviuals acting like fools for what seems to be no gain at all

Oh really? Then that makes you a fool for replying to the thread. Pot meet kettle *rollseyes*

Fact is this IS a debate and a very valid one. If we are to accept GW's premise that the rules need to be played as they are literally written then we have no choice BUT to have topics like this to help them understand that what is good for ONE rule is not good for another especially when they have no consistency when writing them.

I agree the wording is poor in the F.A.Q....give GW time to change it (if they are even aware of it).

The wording in the FAQ is NOT what is poorly written. It is a clarification as to how to read a poorly written rule.

Try and keep up with the rest of us 'fools' if you are going to 'debate' this with us, mmmkay?

-last post on this "debate" for this 'fool'

---------------------------

F.A.Q. Answer: ?the rule for synapse range makes them only immune to ID by 2x str weapons, but not if the str is > 2x

-I do not have the new 'nid codex but is it synapse that grants this ability?  If someone could clarify that it may help.  I am human so i could be making a mistake here and misinterpreting this whole "debate".  If someone could clarify that, heh, that would be nice too. Thank you

---------------------------


"And since they wrote it the same for WBB, that means that they meant for Necrons to only lose WBB for weapons with a Strength double the target's Toughness, not greater... because that IS the RAW for WBB."

-They MEANT for Necrons to only lose WBB vs str8?!?...First off, last i checked (assuming my above statement is correct) the necrons do not use synapse rules.  It is also likely, they did not even think of the necrons while writing that one fatal line (it is not a necron F.A.Q.), instead they where just trying to help out by printing a F.A.Q. for the people asking for it.  I do not think they should be scolded, nor the rules twisted, for their failing to reread all the 40k books and studying all the implications of one sentance.

"The wording in the FAQ is NOT what is poorly written. It is a clarification as to how to read a poorly written rule."

-The rule seemed fine until the F.A.Q., right?

-To DaIronGob: I have read many of your posts, you seem to be intelligent and someone that has read the rules more than once. My question is, no offence intended, do you honestly belive what you are arguing for and feel that is how it should be played or are you just trying to make a point to GW. If the latter is true, why "debate" it here, why not get in touch with someone at GW (adventurous as that might be)?

Does anyone actually believe that anything discussed on YMDC is to be played in that manner?

I highly doubt it.

The rule seemed fine until the F.A.Q., right?

Apparently not, they felt the need to clarify it with a FAQ.

We discuss it because that is the nature of YMDC, to discuss what COULD possibly come up. We find so we can prevent.

Also if GW actually gave a flying hoot as to what we think or what we discuss then I suppose we'd see a lot more "FAQs

Lastly we are not debating the FAQ for "Synapse" = the same for "Necron WBB". We are debating the fact that GW has just shown with this FAQ that we are to take the literal meaning of a rule as it is written.

The WBB rule is specifically written that the WBB roll is denied if the strength of a weapon is double the toughness of the Necron. That's it, the only category that fits the WBB roll vs. strength double the toughness, nothing else. Literal translation on this would mean that if the weapon strength is MORE than double the toughness of the necron it does not fall into that category.

So, GW tells us to use a literal translation, that's what we'll do.
They claim that the FAQs ruin the game, we show them where their rules warrant said FAQs.

Come on Gob. Stop trolling.

He's not trolling.

Everything DIG just said is correct.


By a strict literal reading of Synapse, nothing has changed with the introduction of the new FAQ.
No one I know actually played it that way, but by RAW, 4th edition Synapse has always only prevented strict S=2*T instant death.

It always seemed like a typo, or poorly written rule, but it was always there.
The FAQ simply tells us, "yes, really do that".

Its only fair that if GW expects us to follow such a literal reading of the rule, that the same literal type reading must apply to all rules, including WBB etc...

Yes, that's true, but it's more than that. The Synapse instant death rule is written using the exact same wording as the WBB rule. That's what makes it an issue. That's why the ruling on Synapse directly relates to WBB.

Only certain people want to make an issue of it.

Only certain people want to make an issue of it.

And when it is brought up the issue is discussed.

If it is not an issue that you approve of then you don't have to come in to the post and discuss it. But you also don't have the right to come in here and tell others that they shouldn't discuss it.

I believe what needs to be clarified is that the 'issue' is GW"s stance on literal translation. It is NOT the issue of the FAQ from one army is used for another.

But coming in here calling someone a troll ISN'T part of the discussion. Enough said.