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Well I have now gotten 5 or 6 games in with Mech Tau and although I really like the FoF tactic. There are two main problems though:

1. Jump Infantry
2. Not quite making it.

Jump infantry are the more dangerous of the two problems in that unless you have a Hammerhead on either side of your fish they can assault you,  and even in that case if they are too close to start with they can jump the HH.

Not making it is just annoying, then you have to get back on, reposition and then try again, getting shot at in the mean time.

I was wondering what the general consensus on Carbines is? You get 18" at that point and pinning, although you give up the extra shot.

From experiences with range and stuff like that, I think you'll get over the "not quite making it" for range bit the more you play with the Army. When I started Orks and KoS you start getting very good at judging what your 21" Charge range is, I'm sure it's much the same for learning how to deploy a good FoF.

As far as dealing with Jump Infantry, well as I do so love my Assault Marines I don't want to give you any advice here (don't worry I didn't have any advice for it anyway).

I sure as hell wouldn't play anyone using that rule bending "I can shoot you but you cant charge me" tactic.

I would.

From experiences with range and stuff like that, I think you'll get over the "not quite making it" for range bit the more you play with the Army. When I started Orks and KoS you start getting very good at judging what your 21" Charge range is, I'm sure it's much the same for learning how to deploy a good FoF.

It isn't about poor judgement, I am actually quite good at that, but sometimes you just can't move far enough to get the shot and you chance it anyway and get pooched.

Well, I only ever do the FoF against Jump when I'm sure that I'm going to completely annihilate my target.Otherwise their in cc, and your FWs are dead. Agaisnt other targets however, its less critical unless they are seriously shooty.

As to not making it, well yes that is a problem, but carbines are not the solution. By taking carbines you reduce the number of shots you have drastically. And usually when you do FoF you need as many shots as you can get (FWs don't kill gak). You're only going to not make it once or twice, the rest you will and you'll need those extra shots.

Try the vespid as a support unit against the jump infantry. The same around you fire at the other target with the FoF move, shoot and assault with the vespid. You will tie the assaulters up for ever or kill them all over the long term. If you do think you will lose, simply let the strain leader die and break out at the end of his turn and then finish them off.

Or you can hunt them with crisis suits and plasma. But I like vespid as an answer to fast assaulters.

Problem there is that I fill up my Fast attack with 3 piranhas which I find more often than not do their job very well.

Posted By happypants on 08/22/2006 9:56 PM

From experiences with range and stuff like that, I think you'll get over the "not quite making it" for range bit the more you play with the Army. When I started Orks and KoS you start getting very good at judging what your 21" Charge range is, I'm sure it's much the same for learning how to deploy a good FoF.

It isn't about poor judgement, I am actually quite good at that, but sometimes you just can't move far enough to get the shot and you chance it anyway and get pooched.

This is not poor judgement how?  (Sorry couldn't resist being inflammatory, it's the internet afterall)

As others have said, if the target has any kind of speed buff, you're going to have to be prepared to commit a ridiculous amount of overkill to the target if the FOF fails to kill everything.  If you are not in a good situation to apply this ridiculous overkill, then stay safe and happy in the fish and continue to whittle their forces until the time is right.

Well, given that shooting behind your devilfish is a rules exploit anyway, you deserve it when the jump infantry gets into combat, ripps you apart, and sticks a load of melta bombs on your devilfish.

I sure as hell wouldn't play anyone using that rule bending "I can shoot you but you cant charge me" tactic.

How is that a rules exploit? It is explicitly allowed in the rules, and it even makes logical sense in real world examples. not that real world examples should ever apply to a rules argument.

and beyond that, Tau need ever deffense against HtH they can get.

One assault squad making it into Tau firing lines = dead tau.

Going Mechanized is there only deffense.

the best way to do it is keep your guys inside the fish. it's the way i do it and it works well.

 

FWs hit on 4s fish can be upgraded to hit on 3's have longer range with smart missles and don't need LOS. so the effectiveness of your shooting is about the same. on the plus side of you give your fish decoy and fletchettes.........oh look you get assaulted by jump troops, before they do anything by dice averages half of them take wounds and need to make saves, then they need 6's to even touch you in CC and no matter what they do or what wapons they use it is always a glancing hit, then you can fly away.  it is the best way to use the FOF tactic......

 

 

about the only time you would want ot get out and shoot is if  you go second and it is the bottom of the last turn.

Mughi, do you put 6 or 12 FCW in each fish? 4 or 8 pathfinders?

Qoute: Try the vespid as a support unit against the jump infantry. The same around you fire at the other target with the FoF move, shoot and assault with the vespid. You will tie the assaulters up for ever or kill them all over the long term. If you do think you will lose, simply let the strain leader die and break out at the end of his turn and then finish them off.


Vespid are horrible in assault and a little to expensive to use as a speed bump. Thier actually best used to pick of small units of meqs in combination with marker lights hitting on 3's or 2's.

I dunno, I was always skeptical about putting so many points into non scoring units since tau generally like to play VP denial, doing so with alot of points stuck in non scoring models makes this alot harder.

I will admit I have yet to get aggressive enough with my FWs to really make them worth their cost but atm I am putting this down to lack of experiance more than anything else.

I have no problem having rapid fire slug fests with las/plas marines just as long as I can keep the fish away from HB fire.

Sure was fun in 1 game though, I didnt get a fish out of reserve untill turn 6, they came out, into rapid fire range of a chaos squad holding an objective, 24 shots from the FWs and 2 from the drones (had to turn the fish around so no burst shooting) Still I managed to drop the squad down to non scoring (and this was a unit of 8) and it cost the opponent alot of tournament points.

Posted By vsurma on 08/23/2006 3:35 PM
(had to turn the fish around so no burst shooting)

Why no burst shooting? It's on a turret mount with a 360 degree field of vision, you should've been shooting with it.

Why no burst shooting? It's on a turret mount with a 360 degree field of vision, you should've been shooting with it.

That is some fish you got there Professor, I gotta get me one of those.

that is so insightful, thanks a bunch man, really appreciated.

Um....Fish of Fury IS a tactic, a legit one.... and a good one at that!

Posted By burnthexenos on 08/23/2006 8:11 PM
Your all beardy gits, and should be lined up and shot. Dont start shooting your enemy from behind a devilfish, actually give him a chance! It was not the intent that fire warriors could shoot from behind a devilfish, and people doing so sickens me.

Why not get a grasp of some tactics, and dont play a WAAC no brainer army.

While no-brainer armies are a problem in 40k, Tau is hardly a no-brainer army. The hammerhead is, and to some extent crisis with shield drones are, but if you can't use kroot properly all the crisis in the world won't save you. Stealths are also hard to use, and the fact is, fire warriors in devilfish require tactics to use as well. It's not a no-brainer. If you just drive up, unload your fire warriors, and shoot, all your fire warriors will die (to shooting).

Posted By happypants on 08/23/2006 8:04 PM

Why no burst shooting? It's on a turret mount with a 360 degree field of vision, you should've been shooting with it.

That is some fish you got there Professor, I gotta get me one of those.

Actually,  the rulebook says that you measure LOS from the weapon mount and gives LOS restrictions for fixed weapons and walkers.

Turrets are not mentioned, thus they have no restrictions on their LOS - if you can see it from the weapon mount, you can shoot it, regardless of whether the model actually pivots that much.

agreed with Mephet'ran and onlainari

1- don't FoF against jump infantry, unless their destruction is assured.

if you do try anyway, you will need to have a bigger wall than just 1 fish to keep them out, you'll need to use more skimmers / table edge / impassable terrain / dispersed kroot, etcs, to stop them jumping around the fish

2- play better

Thanks Spooky, I think I have to 'tone down' my play style and play a little less agressive with Tau, I am used to playing marines (which have pretty much been shelved since I got my Tau because I enjoy the Tau so much more) but you can take more risks with Marines and still come out a winner, maybe I should figure out how to say "Discretion is the better part of valor" in Tau and put it on all my tanks.

its actually really hard to use mech FW teams to their fullest, you need to have such a fine touch about ripping the enemy apart that deploying them at the right time and place really is an art. if in doubt, err on the side of caution.

Ya, I did pretty well with them in my game last night, 5 tanks surrounding enemy unit, fired off what needed to be fired off with the FW's and left other tanks open to fire at other things.

lol ?

lololol

@burnthexenos

so what you are saying to most tau players is "I dont like the fact that I can't out right slaughter you without thinking/planning/suffering a few losses"

I hope your not a Rhino sniper

Might as well just ignore him, Sirslamb. If you look at his other posts, the guy is just trolling, and half the stuff he says doesn't even make sense. More than likely he's just doing it for a cheap laugh, or his friends put him up to it. The mods will do their thing once they get sick of him.

You know, it does say in the rules that you may declare a charge against multiple units. So long as I can get one model to touch the Fish, and one to touch the Fire Warriors, the charge suceeds. :p

Burnthexenos’ trolling has been deleted.  Mephet'ran, please change your avatar.  It violates the language standards of the board.  I would hate to have to delete your posts because of it.

 

-The Management

But devilfish are cheese, and should be banned.

Anyway, MOD, are you a xenos player? Because you seem to be supporting all the xenos scum in their posts. This devilfish post, and then you supported the necrons...do you just hate space marines or something??