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I got out of 40k (played about 2x per year) just before 4th ed.  Now that I am back, I am curious what people are doing with their Black Templars and what they think of my 1500 pt lists. 

Comments much Appreciated

Old School Rhino Rush
<table width="460" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 345pt;" x:str=""> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <col width="76" style="width: 57pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" span="5"></col> <tbody> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td width="64" height="17" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 48pt;" class="xl22">Troops:</td> <td width="76" style="width: 57pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Number</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Points:</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td style="" colspan="3">Rhino + Smoke + E.A.</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:num="">243</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>CCW</td> <td align="right" x:num=""> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td style="" colspan="3">Rhino + Smoke + E.A.</td> <td align="right" x:num="">9</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=243-16" x:num="">227</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>CCW</td> <td align="right" x:num=""> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>P fist+plasma gun</td> <td style="" colspan="3">Rhino + Smoke + E.A.</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:num="">241</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>Bolters</td> <td align="right" x:num=""> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl22">Fast:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Ass marines</td> <td>P Fist</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">8</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(F13*22)+15+12" x:num="">203</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">2 plasma pistols</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl22">HQ:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">EC</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">Accept any channenge</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">140</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Master of Sanctity</td> <td style="" colspan="3">J. Pack, Termie honors, BP</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=146+6+1" x:num="">153</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">melta-bombs, frag grenades</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl22">Heavy:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Predator Annihalator</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">sponson lascannons</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">145</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Predator Annihalator</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">sponson lascannons</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">145</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Believe it or not, this list can still win more games than it loses in casual and local tourney play.   One squad  of initiates  is armed with  bolters to deal with units like  Daemonettes and Genestealers.

With the new codex, BT received a much greater variety of units and options.

New School Close combat list
<table width="543" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 407pt;" x:str=""> <col width="100" style="width: 75pt;"></col> <col width="115" style="width: 86pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" span="2"></col> <col width="72" style="width: 54pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" span="2"></col> <tbody> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td width="100" height="17" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 75pt;" class="xl24">Troops:</td> <td width="115" style="width: 86pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Initiates</td> <td width="72" style="width: 54pt;">Neophytes</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Number</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Points:</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>PFist/Plas</td> <td>CCW</td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td align="right" x:num="">3</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(D2:E2)" x:num="">8</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*D2)+15+6+(E2*10)" x:num="">131</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>PFist/Plas</td> <td>CCW</td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td align="right" x:num="">2</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(D3:E3)" x:num="">7</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*D3)+15+6+(E3*10)" x:num="">121</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Elite:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Sword Brethren</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td>Infiltrate</td> <td style="" colspan="2">Crusader Seals</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(21*F6)+C7+10+15" x:num="">235</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Sword Brethren</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td>Infiltrate</td> <td style="" colspan="2">Crusader Seals</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(21*F8)+C9+10+15" x:num="">235</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">HQ:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Emperor's Champion</td> <td style="" colspan="3">Accept any channenge</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">140</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Marshal</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">Termie Armor, Thunder Hammer</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=80+25+30+15+35+2" x:num="">187</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="4">(A single lightning claw would be more)</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">effective at a similar cost</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Krak Grenades</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="4">Combi-plasmagun, Adamantine Mantle</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>Termie Command</td> <td style="" colspan="3">All have Crusader Seals</td> <td align="right" x:num="">4</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(42*F18)+40" x:num="">208</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">2x Donkey Cannon</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Fast:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">80</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">80</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">80</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
 New school SAFH!
<table width="556" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 418pt;" x:str=""> <col width="97" style="width: 73pt;"></col> <col width="79" style="width: 59pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <col width="94" style="width: 71pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <col width="94" style="width: 71pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <tbody> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td width="97" height="17" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 73pt;" class="xl24">Troops:</td> <td width="79" style="width: 59pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="94" style="width: 71pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="94" style="width: 71pt;">Number</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Points:</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">6</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*F2)+15+6" x:num="">117</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*F3)+15+6" x:num="">181</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">6</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*F4)+15+6" x:num="">117</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(16*F5)+15+6" x:num="">101</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">HQ:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">EC</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">6+ Inv. Save Vow</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">110</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Marshal</td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">Termie Armor, Lightning Claws</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=80+25+35+35+2" x:num="">177</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Adamantine Mantle</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>Termie Command</td> <td style="" colspan="2">All have Crusader Seals</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">4</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(42*F13)+40" x:num="">208</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">2x Donkey Cannon</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Fast:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="3">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">2</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=80*F18" x:num="">160</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="3">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">2</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=80*F19" x:num="">160</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="3">Land Speeder (Donkey Cannon)</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">2</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=80*F20" x:num="">160</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>


Obviously, the latter two ignore army comp!

BTW...I cannot bring myself to take all min sized troop squads. Call it a personal failing!

I like your last list, the SAFH. It doesn't do the fluff justice though. I'd swap 2 of the 4 BT crusader squads and configure them for CC.

I run a 4 Troops list similar to what I'm describing:

6-Init. ML/Plas/Bolters (112 pts)

6-Init. ML/Plas/Bolters (112 pts)

10-Init. 5-Neo. Fist/Meltagun/BP&CCW (235 pts)

10-Init. 5-Neo. Fist/Meltagun/BP&CCW (235 pts)

You're running a Las/Plas, which is actually better than my ML/Plas, but since I'm on a bit of a tight budget, I don't have too many opportunities to change.

You might want to consider dropping the Meltaguns in your Sword Brethren Squads and take a pair of Lightning Claws. They help cutting through MEQ immensely. My squad suffers from "too many upgrades syndrome," but for a 6 or 8-man, Termie Honors are useful.

CK

If you want to upgrade to Las/Plas from ml plas, consider this option

http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/3733

You can order  three imp guard lascannon bits and then convert them to marine carried weapons easily and cheaply.

As for 15 man squads, I fielded a 1500 pt  army like this one last night.   I have considered 20man units, but they are too expensive and ungainly for regular use.

<table width="499" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 374pt;"> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <col width="115" style="width: 86pt;"></col> <col width="64" span="5" style="width: 48pt;"></col> <tbody> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td width="64" height="17" class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 48pt;">Troops:</td> <td width="115" style="width: 86pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Number</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">Points:</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td colspan="2" style="">5 Neophytes</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=(16*F2)+C3+10+15">235</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">50</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>P fist+melta</td> <td colspan="2" style="">5 Neophytes</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=(16*F4)+C5+15+10">235</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">50</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=(16*5)+15+6">101</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">BT</td> <td>Las/Plas</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">5</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=(16*5)+15+6">101</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;">HQ:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">EC</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="3" style="">Accept any channenge</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">140</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Marshal</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="3" style="">Termie Armor, Thunder Hammer</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=80+25+30+15+35+2+1">188</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td colspan="4" style="">Combi-plasmagun, Adamantine Mantle</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td colspan="2" style="">Frag Grenades</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>Termie Command</td> <td colspan="3" style="">All have crusader Seals</td> <td align="right" x:num="">4</td> <td align="right" x:num="" x:fmla="=(42*F23)+40">208</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt;">Heavy:</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" colspan="2" style="height: 12.75pt;">Predator Annihalator</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="2" style="">sponson lascannons</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">145</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" colspan="2" style="height: 12.75pt;">Predator Annihalator</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="2" style="">sponson lascannons</td> <td align="right" x:num="">1</td> <td align="right" x:num="">145</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

It did well against grey knights.  I was concerned as we were playing on a jungle board (50% level three area woods terrain).  I was able to hit one dread with a lascannon tank (took the Dread CCW).  The other was kept bottled up by the other tank and a las/plas squad.  His termies died to lascannon fire and my CCW crusaders ripped the GK's apart in close combat, with the help of the Emperor's champion. 
My own termies were something of a flop.  They failed a key moral check and fell back 11 inches, keeping them out of the game until the last two turns.

Innitiative 1 weapons on Independent characters don't tend to work well with the new assault rues. Any casualties from the termie sergeant will come from guys in base to base with the Marshal. When Innit 1 comes around he won't get any attacks at all. You're much better off with twin lightning claws. I'd Lose the combi-plasmagun too and take tankhunter on the assault cannnons. It works really well. Oh yeah, you can't take frag grenades on a guy in termie armor either.

The sixth man in the las/plas squad is pretty important as well. He means the squad takes four casualities instead of three before being 'under half'. I'd drop the admantine mantel to get the points most easily.


As an aside, you got any pics of your converted lascannon marines? I'd be interested to see how they turned out.

If you dropped the Lascannon sponsons for Heavy Bolters, the tank will be able to move and fire all of its weapons. It will still be a viable anti-tank vehicle, but will also be able to threaten infantry if the turret gets popped. You could use 10 of those extra points and slap on a storm bolter for an extra pair of shots.

You don't need crusader seals on your Termie Command Squad. Since your Marshal already has them, the squad counts as benefitting from the Marshal's seals. That's another 8 freed points. couple that with the 10 remaining point from the change to your predator sponsons (- 25 + 10 HB + 10 Storm Bolter = 5 left over per tank), and you've got 18 freed points. Drop the Combi-Plas (Lightning Claws instead) - 10 more points off. Drop a Neophyte from each Crusader Squad, and you now have 48 points remaining. Take a fifth Termie in you Command Squad.

Swap the Thunder Hammer for a Pair of Lightning Claws, as Ebon suggested. Drop the Adamantine Mantle. 25 Points gone. Dith the Frags on your commander - he can't have them in Terminator Armor. Now, coupled with the 8 remaining points from above, you now have 44 more points to play with. I suggest one of two options.

1. Drop Termie #5. Use the 84 pts to put a 6th man in each Las/Plas Squad. Use the remaining 52 points for the two CC squads. 1 Initiate and 1 Neophyte each. Comes to same amount of points.

2. Take a Fifth Terminator. Put a pair of searchlights onto your vehicles. you're 2 points short of where you started.

Just a thought.
CK

Thanks Corpsman_of_Krieg and Ebon:

You guys are clearly right about the thunder hammer. He was more a of conversion project than anything else. Twin claws would actually save 15 pts (no combi weapon), dropping the mantle (which does nothing to protect from the now omni present force weapon) and replacing it with an Iron Halo would save 10 pts. I get an extra 11 by removing the seals and frag grenades. That is 36 pts or 2 more initiates or the cost of tank hunter on the termies and one initiate. If I go down to a 5+ inv save then I am saving yet more points.

I'll be sure to post pics of the las marines once i finish painting.

BTW...If you are looking for droppods, I was thinking of converting the towers from the warhammer fortress* into drop pods. I know castles dropping from space is a little silly, but I think the whole templar army is high on the camp value anyway. Fluff wize, shooting castles filled with idiotic fanatics at the enemy seems exactly like the kinda tactic the BT would go for! My only regret is the possibility the EC might have to walk around on foot.




*(http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=303934&orignav=304471&ParentID=4429&GameNav=13)