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I know that Yakface was pretty set on Regeneration for Carnifii sucking but it seems like if you purchase it in tandem with the extra wound you'll have an incredibly durable Carnifex. It basically forces your opponent to concentrate on just one Carnifex since knocking it below half wouldn't be enough--Over two turns it should statistically be up one wound.

Anyone have luck with using both of'em at once? With the 1850 point build I've got now, I could easily move some things around and slap it on all the gunfexes while only losing a 40 point unit of gaunts and maybe a ravener.

5 lascannon shots will still kill the carnifex dead, regardless of whether or not it has regen.

Well, when you factor in 5+ cover, it's... ~14 BS4 Lascannon shots to cause 5 wounds to a T6 Carnifex. That's a lot of firepower to pour into one target in a single turn, even considering that he's in LoS of it all.

Yup, sadly.

If any of your fexes regenerate wounds, your opponent either rolled poorly or goofed.

I run T7, 2+, 5 wound, regenerating gunfexes I've lost one in 4 games so far (at 2000 pts).

It died because opponent's lysander wing shot 6 assault cannon shots at it in 4+ cover and rended it 13 times (out of 24 shots).

Normally I tell people what it is at the beginning of the game what they are, and they just never bother shooting them, so my antitank platforms are left alone   

Of course, every time I face Carnifii, I usually kill at least one per turn. Without even really trying. Either I bring lots of lascannons to bear, or I hit them in assault with ridiculous numbers of high-strength "ignore armor" attacks. It's not that difficult to do.

My reading of the rule is that each and every turn, you can roll for each wound the carny has ever suffered, so that's a lot of potential 6s. It does seem expensive in points though - but I'm very tempted to take it for at least one carny in my Godzilla list

If you run extra upgrades on your gunfexes, you need to make them all the same. Reason being, otherwise they'll just whack the one with regenerate first for extra points. Really depends on your point level whether it's worth it.

Honestly killing a 5 wound T7 2+ save monster in 5+ (or better) cover from 36" is not a feat most armies can do. Lascannon heavy IG, sure. But most armies don't have enough lascannons to do it (it takes around 27 IG lascannons to kill said carnifex in 4+ cover, and 19ish marine lascannons).

You've got to scratch plasmaguns, meltaguns, heavy bolters, missile launchers, and pretty much anything that isn't 36" or better, ap2, strength 7 or better, as it's got no real opportunity.

Hitting them in assault is no easy game either. My carnies buy WS4 and T7, and suddenly powerfists ain't looking so hot (you will not kill it before having your jeans stolen by his buddies).

To a stock gunfex, a squad of rapid firing firewarriors can help out (1.3 wounds or so). A missile launcher dev squad is threatening (2.22 wounds).

My fexes take .33 wounds and .29 wounds, respectively.

3 fireknife suits rapid firing with BS5 from marker tokens (this one made my opponent cry - maybe he shoulda used the neg 1 cover save one, but I dunno) against a 5+ cover ubergunfex: 1.11 wound from plasma, .42 wounds from missile pods

That's all about my metagame though -- 2000 pts, tons of vehicles, and a small lascannon shortage. I can't remember the last time I saw an army with more than 10, which is distinctly not enough against Zilla bugs.

It's 242 pts, so I think it'd be pretty silly to run at less than 2000 pts, but hey. It does what I wanted it to do -- no one ever shoots them, except blind ass lucky Lysander wing guy

And it means I have to paint about 16 fewer gaunts per fex

Any non-Marine army will have some trouble. Marines not tailored with bunch of assaultcannons and/or lascannons,too...well...ok, any non-marine army then...

I would stick to the 2+ save,W5, Regeneration, though, just because Godfexes ain't the best deal. If you are unlucky, you opponent will simply ignore these huge pointbeasts and you will have a hard time justifying its pointscost.

Greets
Schepp himself

As I said earlier, you're talking about ~14 BS Lascannons to take down a 5 wound Fex in cover--That's most armies entire shooting complement at 1850 points. If they don't take him down, you're gonna be rolling 3-4 dice to regenerate--You have to regenerate two wounds to make up the points for regenerate... It may not pay for itself in that way, but a non-scoring unit turning into a scoring unit could easily swing games.

/shrug

not worth it's points. I could field more leaping ripper swarms for the points I spent on those fexes

14 BS4 lascannons will not get to shoot at your carnifex. It moves and shoots, and tables usually have "terrain" on them that makes static shootie squads have a hard time getting good shots lined up at your move and shoot fex. Very few tanks are going to win a gunfight with a fex in cover, either.

Buying more gaunts is a reasonable thing. Buying more nonscoring rippers is just plain dumb.

For me, it's just personal preference toward low model count. I could have 14 gaunts + a normal gunfex, or I could have one of my gunfexes. So my two gunfexes save me having to paint and carry around, deploy, and move 28 gaunts. The effectiveness is arguable, because I don't have the synapse to support all those gaunts doing something useful in my list.

Regeneration is just too expensive for what it gives you. You only have a 1 in 6 shot at regenerating a wound, so unless youre at 3 or 4 wounds you just cant rely on it. Its possible to go the whole game and not see a single regen. For 30 pts a model Id rather have the old version or regen.

Most armies have enough heavy weapons to take a fex down in one turn fairly easily. Esp with a godzilla army you cant put everything in cover. The MCs are the cover, for the stealers or whatever behind them.

By the way, the plural of carnifex is not carnifii!!! Sorry, it just bugged me. Pun intended.

Plural of codex is codeci; plural of carnifex is carnifeci.

14 BS4 Lascannons when in 5+ cover... Sure, many armies *have* that much firepower, but bringing it all to bear on a single model with all of it passing their leadership test to target that specific Carnifex is un-likely against all but maybe some versions of IW.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 09/15/2006 11:54 AM
Plural of codex is codeci; plural of carnifex is carnifeci.

Negative.

Plural of codex is codices.

This derives from latin (codex, codicis 3m)

However, Carnifex is not latin, it is a GW name in English. Carnifexes is thus a perfectly acceptable plural. Carnifices (the best latinisation) doesn't make sense, as Carnifex is not latin.

The point of regenerate is not to regenerate necessarily. It's the threat of regenerating. It means you must dump your entire army and even to the point of wasting shots into the fex to make it worth shooting at. I regularly have people shoot squads of firewarriors at my studfex, bolters, heavy bolters, autocannons etc. And when they do I get points - because they could be wounding my normal fexes, much more easily, or eradicating genestealers/gaunts.

Regenerate is especially deadly to Tau, who can't really put out enough firepower to kill the studfex without using their S5 firepower and missile pods, which are essentially wasted. And if they don't kill it it'll regenerate and continue pwning hammerheads. Cheer.

Really though it's the combination of T7, 2+, 5 wounds, regenerate. I'd either go that, or just 5 wounds. No sense in buying the other stuff unless you make it so only Lascannons can hurt you (very few armies have enough mobile lascannons).

Actually, Torgoch, carnifex is a Latin term. Back in the good old days of the Roman Empire, that's what they called public executioners. Comes form the Latin roots Caro and Facere.

As for my thoughts on regenerate, I'll take it if I haven't got anything else to spend the points on, which seems likely as I'll only have six TMCs in my next list - may be useful on Gunfexes. Sure, it's overpriced, but raising from two to three wounds kills off a big chunk of my opponent's VPs, which could make all the difference. In a more balanced Tyranid list, I'd rather take more gaunts.