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Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

Recommendations for change? It plays pretty well - I've used all of the units in it before, just never in a 2500 point game when they're all on the board at the same time.

Tell me what you think.

The text is really acting up. Sorry for the huge and distorted font - I got tired of trying to fix it after 20 minutes.

CK

Black Templars 3rd Crusade – 2500 Point Army List

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HEADQUARTERS – 764 pts

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Command Unit – 494 pts

            Marshal Agrarius – 163 pts

Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Adamantine Mantle, Combat Shield, Purity Seals, Teleport Homer, Infiltrate

            Retinue (8 + Reclusiarch) – 331 pts

                        Veteran Sergeant – 50 pts

                                    Terminator Honors, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Infiltrate

                        Company Champion – 39 pts

Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Combat Shield, Infiltrate

                        Initiate Bodyguards (6) – 143 pts

Meltagun (2), Bolt Pistol & CCW (4), all with Infiltrate

                        Reclusiarch Chaplain Castel – 99 pts

                                    Crozius Arcanum, Bolt Pistol, Rosarius, Infiltrate

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Reclusiarch Chaplain Sirius – 130 pts

            Crozius Arcanum, Plasma Pistol, Rosarius, Jump Pack

            [Assigned to Assault Squad Alpha]

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Champion of the Emperor – 140 pts

            The Emperor’s Champion Tiberius – 140 pts

Bolt Pistol, Black Sword, Armor of Faith, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Purity Seals, Vow: “Accept any Challenge…”

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ELITES – 570 pts

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Terminator Squad (5) – 245 pts

            Assault Cannon, Cyclone ML

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Dreadnought – 125 pts

            Assault Cannon, Dreadnought CCW, Venerable

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Sword Brethren Squad (8) – 200 pts

Bolt Pistol & Power Fist, Lightning Claw Pair, Bolt Pistol & CCW (6), All with Infiltrate and Frag Grenades

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TROOPS – 610 pts

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Crusader Squad Alpha – 193 pts

            Initiates (8) – 153 pts

                        Bolt Pistol & Power Fist, Meltagun, Bolt Pistol & CCW

            Neophytes (4) – 40 pts

                        Bolt Pistol & CCW

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Crusader Squad Beta – 193 pts

            Initiates (8) – 153 pts

                        Bolt Pistol & Power Fist, Meltagun, Bolt Pistol & CCW

            Neophytes (4) – 40 pts

                        Bolt Pistol & CCW

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Crusader Squad Delta (6) – 112 pts

            Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun

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Crusader Squad Gamma (6) – 112 pts

            Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun

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FAST ATTACK – 435 pts

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Land Speeder Squadron – 170 pts

            Typhoon (2)

                        Multi-Melta

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Attack Bike Squadron – 130 pts

            Attack Bike (2)

                        Multi-Melta

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Assault Squad Alpha (5) – 135 pts

            Power Fist, Plasma Pistol (2)

            [Assigned Reclusiarch Sirius]

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HEAVY SUPPORT – 120 pts

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Predator Destructor – 120 pts

            Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons, PM Storm Bolter

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Total – 2499 pts

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Army List Breakdown:

70 Models (Attack Bikes count as two)

2 Light Vehicles

2 Medium Vehicles

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Ranged Weaponry:

[Missile Launchers are Multipurpose weapons. Assault Cannons are Anti-Personnel. Str. >7 is Anti-Tank; 5<Str.><7 Anti-Personnel; Str. 7 Multipurpose]

            Anti-Tank: 8

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->            Anti-Personnel: 4

            Multipurpose: 8

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Close Combat Weaponry:

[Dreadnought CCW and Black Sword are special Weapons. Chainfists are Power Fists. Lightning Claw Pairs count as 2 Power Weapons]

            Standard: 34 (BP & CCW combination)

            Power Weapons: 6  <!--[endif]-->

            Power Fists: 10
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            Special: 2

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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Utah (Oh god)

Rather than saying your list is good or bad, which I think is inherently not what this board is for, I'm going to say what options would be better to help you fit your theme more properly or would open up some points to do more. Let me also start with saying that this list seems very fun.

I'd get rid of your dreadnaught, its far too easy to get points off that guy. You have venerable on him, which makes him survivable. But in a 6 turn game, without a drop pod, you are in trouble getting him into position. With only 24 inches of firing, it will be hard to get him into work, especially considering it would be easy for enemies to simply move out of the way. The best way to deploy a venerable dreadnaught is to have him drop pod, smoke and then work from there if you decide to keep him.

The Termie needs to have a second assault cannon IMHO. They are going to teleport anyways, and other units can deal with serious tank power (which is the only reason to bring that kind of missile launcher on a terminator)

You have a WHOLE lot of close combat death, with all of that, I would suggest taking your points down in your Alpha and Beta squad. Maybe making them 6 man Lascannon squads (no plasma). THis is only if you need more shooting force.

You have a small assault squad, which makes it less practical for them to run across the field, again I would suggest a pod, deploying on an opposite side so that you have cover from the pod, and then using them to assault the next turn.

EDIT(WHOA!! BTs can't take dev squads.  I didnt know that! You can disregard this paragraph if you'd like or read for justification on missle squads.)Additionally if you find you need more long range firing then you should instead of the predator, get two 6 or 8 man dev squads, each with 4 rocket launders (8 man costs a flat 200 points per squad, 6 man squads are 30 points cheaper). This is why I feel having a missile launcher on the terminator squad is pointless, with a dev squad like this you can kill tanks, moderate to heavily armored infantry, and also you can frag a load of lightly to heavily armored models, the frag ability however, is only good when you have multiples of rocket launchers. Say you hit a densely packed group in cover, you get 2 hits and two partials, and you get 3 rockets in. Thats 6 hits, and then 6 partials. Averaged that is 9 hits with only three rockets. (Essentially like firing a bolter from 48 inches, that hits more people) Generally on a 4+ cover save (I am assuming you are firing at things like IG, Tau, or something of that sort with a 4+ cover or regular save) they lose 4-5 models, and probably take a -1 leadership check. So I would opt for these squads certainly over having a rocket launcher on a terminator.

Of course, the direction of your army is about getting close and personal, I wonder if instead you might swap your dreadnaught for 4 drop pods for you troop choices, then deploy your troops to take cover behind the pods, then assault next turn.

If you want more tank destruction, I would suggest taking your Vet squad, and instead of the lighting claw pairs, adding in two meltas(if its an option) will help you kill MEQ's and tanks.

Im also thinking that instead of your landspeader squandrons doing multi-melta work, it seems like it would be better to let your troops deal with anti-tank, especially if you are dropping and teleporting in a bunch of your guys (not to mention infiltrating). This would free up points to add another assault squad, or add in more infiltrating vet squads. Or more troop options.

Thats just my thinking though, I hope you like some of the suggestions, if not, oh well

Lasguns the new Assault Cannon. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





First, we have very different styles of play.  So anything I say, I would suggest you take it with a grain of salt, but I'll tell you what I think, anyway.

You command squad is tooled up!  Wow.  I definately don't go this way with my HQs (but many do).  I would hate to get anywhere near them... In fact, I think that a canny enemy would do the same (avoid) or try to tie them up with swarms of useless troops.  Perhaps, just perhaps (I'm not 100% sure yet), a LRC might be in order for a squad like this?  As you can't take Neophytes to buffer your casualty loss (which you want a bit off to get into CC faster if you are walking), I would think about someway to protect them a little bit more.  Another option would be to drop the squad in favor of (a much cheaper) crusader squad you can join.  This doesn't allow you the two HQs in one choice, but it can still be effective.

Your chaplain with jump pack & PP is interesting, and I've seen them work wonders.  I personally would go with the HOA & BP on my chaplain.  I know it's only 1 shot, but it wrecks any deepstriking unit nearby, and is great in assault, plus, you don't have to worry about overheating wounds.  But your layout works, too.  As a note, if you plan on having him join up with an assault marine unit, then I would make that marine unit larger (minimum 8).  Get the most out of his re-rolls to hit in assault, and you can get a PF & 2 PPs in that unit to help out as well. 

Your EC is great.  Even though some people bad-mouth him, I've found him devasting against normal troops if you can get him into CC with that vow.  I've left the HQs for my HQs to deal with.

Your term squad is cool (and is the models that the box comes with, conveniently), but I think I would drop the missile launcher and go with an AC.  However, as BTs can't take devastator squads (how many times have people told me to take them), you might need a bit more anti-tank (see below).  I would go 2 ACs, which can do a number on any tanks that pop up with their rending ability, and 8 AC shots slaughter troops.

I would most definately drop-pod your ven dread so he can get into combat sooner rather than walking up the board getting shot at.  I use two regular dreadnoughts dropping, and they work wonders as my troops get cover from the DPs and the dreads as they cause havoc up front (and then promptly die to allow the troops access to the enemy).

I don't like Sword Brethern (although I do love the models), so I think I would go with another DPing dread... but to each his own.  Their layout is good.

I don't feel like you have enough troops. At this level, I personally think you need at least (2) 15 man-units and (2) 6-man las/plas units, plus your HQ and your terms & SB.  Those units cause so much debate as to what to do about them it's funny to watch.  To shoot or not to shoot... Anyway, a PF and MG is mandatory for the 15 man squads, and the las/plas covers your anti-tank problems from above.

I would adjust your FA slots the most.  I personally would take (2) selections of (1) LS with HB & Assault cannon, and (1) selection of Bikes with an attack bike added on with as many meltaguns as you can get in the unit.  That gives you the ability to use the quick-moving ACs on the (2) LSs wherever they are needed, and still have a hard hitting mobile center full of melta death.  I just don't like LS squadrons of more than one (as I almost always seem to get results where I can't move one model, and this raises a tough decision), so if you want the MGs on the LSs, then break them apart into 2 squadrons of 1.

I think, overall, I would try to stuff an extra tank into the list (either and annihilator or LRC)... but you've seemed to go the MG route for tank destruction.  I think the list is fun to play with, but there doesn't seem to be enough variety in tank-killing range for my liking for a hardcore list (it seems like almost all of your models have an effective range of 24" for shooting, which is OK and always effective, but could make it a bit nerve-racking against some opponents like mech tau or eldar that can stay just outside of the range and blast away, I've seen this happen against SWs for instance).  I would try to get a bit more variety to have some serious threats of long range firepower (as you did with the MLs on terms and 6-man squads).

In summary, I would drop the SB squad for a DP dreadnought (for a total of 2), and fluff up some of my crusader squads with the points left over.  I would then really look at either trying to get the assault squad (who have no RZ movement) up to 8, or drop them altoghether for another tank or crusader squad.  But again, that's me and how I play.  Your list looks fun and way different from mine.  And that's cool to see.

   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Greenville

@Y'he: What's an HOA? I'm drawing a blank.

Thanks to both of you ATI and Y'he. I like many of the suggestions you all have.

Now, in response to them, there's what I'll be changing:

The CML in the Terminator Squad will be swapped for an Assault Cannon. I'm thinking of getting the new 4th Ed plastics and junking my 3rd Ed.

I'm hoping to eventually up the Assault Squad to a 10-man. That way they'll have some survivability as they race up the field.

Once I build a Drop Pod out of foamboard, I'll be Deep Striking that Ven. Dread like a mofo. He'll be 168 pts though (+30 for Pod, +10 for Heavy Flamethrower, +3 for Smoke).

Once I have my Crusader Squads fully tooled, I'm planning on buying a BT Conversion kit and a combat squad to make the 15-man units. As for the two 6-mans -- I like the idea of dropping the plasma. I was hesitant to put it on, but it'll save me 12 points.

As for my LST pair and Attack Bike pair, they're my mainstay tankhunters. I'm not worried about range for a couple reasons, the first being that Land Speeders can deepstrike, and both of these units can move 24" (Turbocharging the attack bikes will give them each a 3+ Inv. Save until my next turn), so they'll close the distance with any enemy vehicle in just a couple turns.

My army breakdown will look like this for the tactica:

Assaulting units include my 8-man Infiltrating Command Unit (9 w/ Reclusiarch) and attached Marshal, J-Pack Chaplain w/ 10-man Assault Squad, 8-man Infiltrating SB Squad, a Deep Striking Ven. Dread tricked out for CC, which will all be followed closely by two 15-man Crusader Squads. A Term. Squad will teleport in on the commander's position and blast away with a pair of ACs and a trio of SBs, and will assault in the following turn, probably just before the 15-man Crusader Squads.

For anti-tank shooting (excluding CC squad Meltaguns), I have a pair of Multi-Melta LSTs, a pair of MM Attack Bikes, and a pair of 6-man ML Squads.

For anti-infantry (shooting only), I have only my Pred. Destructor -- he's there to soften up huge groups of units and to provide some heavier cover fire for my slogging 15-man's. If I'm fighting an opponent who has special assault troops (Genestealers, Ork Nobz, Chaos chosen, etc), he'll pummel them so that my assault troops can advance unhindered by heavy close combat weapons, rending claws, power swords/fists, etc. He is not there to cover a retreat -- Even if I'm losing, I'll play my army true to the end and keep charging!

CK

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill

Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The HOA stands for the "Holy Orb of Antioch".  For the points of an initiate, you have basically a demo-charge: a one shot weapon that can cause serious havoc to everyone (especially MEQs).

Other than that, a good list, with a well thought out tactica, it seems.

   
 
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