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I allways wanted to play an army, where the peaces work in synergy. The Eldar seem to open up some possebillities:
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1. Firedragons deployed by Falcon.  (This combo has to be great, since both - allready great units - got even better)

2. Farseer to Doom the target. (Again a very versatile and costefficient unit)

3 ...

All thats missing seems to be a unit to charge the (doomed) remainders, to kill them in the opponents turn. This way hopefully the Dragons can hide behind the uprising close combat. Id like to hear your suggestions.

The unit should be mobile enough to keep up with a Falcon and should be resilient enough to withstand a round of combat against a damaged enemy unit, to finish it in the opponents tun.



Could a Farseer on Jetbike with some kind retinue do that job propably?

Like: get into position, cast Doom, cast Fortune and charge?

What kind of retinue would you suggest?

Warp spiders or shining spears would be both good for killing weak squads at low strength. Spiders can soften them up a bit more then hit them with a 4 attack power weapon and a bunch of I5 S3 attacks.

Spears would just well kill them. But they're pointier for same resilience as spiders, and don't have the 2d6" assault move.

farseer w/ doom + waveserpent w/ banshees, have some death.

farseer w/ mindwar + wraithlord (sword, shurican x2 flamers for a cheap WL), goodbye powerfist w/ mindwar then play w/ toughness 8.

farseer w/ doom, guide and spirit stones + dire avengers w/ bladestorm about 30 twin-linked & living ammo bolt shots at BS4.

dire avengers w/ 5+ invuln and defend + unit of shining spears (add farseer w/ fortune to the avengers if you want). have the avengers eat a charge and not die or charge w/ them after a bladestorm for lots of dice thrown around by 1 unit, counter assault w/ some shining spears to win the combat.

some things that seem fun to do, its all about combined arms w/ eldar.

Big unit of Guardians w/ Avatar (Fearless), Conceal and Fortune. Get into range and Guide and Doom target unit. I've found Eldrad can fit the role nicely by still being able to cast 3 powers per turn. Attach Eldrad to the Guardians to he's Fortuned and then Fortune the Avatar.

Once they shoot, then assault. With Eldrad and the Avatar moving together, they should be able to wreak havoc on whatever they contact.

karandras + unit of harlequins = possible turn 1 charge

How would that work?

karandras has shadowstrike, which gives the unit he joins infiltrate. infiltrate the harlies, move 6 (un-hampered by cover, karandras also has the move thru cover special rule) fleet of foot d6, charge 6. if you deploy out of LOS, still have a chance even if you do deploy in LOS. not to mention the 8 str 8 attacks karandras has on the charge.

makes a pretty scary unit, pricey, but it feels similar to a shrike unit. the trick will be trying to avoid mobile shooty-ness. like a drop pod w/ tac marines or rhino w/ tac marines. those types of things will really shoot the crap out of this unit. i think the ideal size for this unit is probably 7 or 8 guys not the full 10.

i still have to play test it to see how it works though. this is a unit that looks real strong on paper but is still very fragile. which almost makes me like it even more, its very "eldar".

I don't have the codex, but I thought the new Phoenix Lords could only join their own like Aspect Warriors.

no it only says they can't join any other aspects. it dosent say anything about them joining non aspect units.

I think, from looking at the rules, that Lellindil is right.

Karandas + any non-aspect, non-vehicle, non-autarch unit = can infiltrate

I guess you could infiltrate a unit of 20 storm guardians or a farseer & retinue. Or maybe a wraithlord?

Does karandar specifically say he gives infiltrate to any unit he joins? And how does that work exactly, when you join units during deployment and not before?

Karandas's description just says that he has the Shadowstrike ability.

The shadowstrike entry says "A squad including a model with Shadowstrike has the Infiltrate special rule."

So if he can join a unit during/before deployment, he confers the Infiltrate ability on that unit.

and then the main rulebook says (81) in wonderfully pronoun-laden prose, "When deploying an independent character on the table you may specify that it starts the game already inside a unit and place it in coherency with it."

So I'm not sure how that would interact with the fact that Elites deploy before Karandas (as an HQ) in standard missions.  But he could definitely deploy with a unit of fast attack.  Infiltrating spiders, shining spears and falcons are all legal.

Yeah, okay I think the overuse of the pronoun "it" actually makes it legal according to the RAW. Here's how it works:

(1) deploy the unit of harlies (or whatever) with the other elites at the normal time as usual
(2) when it comes time to deploy HQs, hold up Karandas model and say "I specify that Karandas starts the game already inside this harlequin unit."
(3) Infiltrate the Karandas model into the spot where you want him
(4) Move "it" (the harlequin squad already on the table) into coherency with "it" (Karandas)

Don't expect a sportsmanship award, but I think it's legal.

Yeah, I definitely need to get the new codex. Flavius' explanation is not passing my 'sniff' test (not that that is of any authority). It just seems to not flow within the context of the rules.

Further reading required...

if you specify that karandras starts the game inside the harlequin unit wouldnt you deploy the unit at the same time, like after all other deployments?

honestly I am surprised they didn't just say "phoenix lords can only join units of the aspect they represent" but whatever. at least you can't field karandras w/ a unit of banshees like you could in the last codex to give them surprise assault.

Posted By Lellindil on 11/02/2006 4:55 PM
if you specify that karandras starts the game inside the harlequin unit wouldnt you deploy the unit at the same time, like after all other deployments?

Nope, like the rule says you join the IC to the unit at the time when the IC is deployed (or at the time the unit is deployed if the IC deploys first, rule can read either way).

The IC deployment rule is not in the Eldar codex; it's in the main rulebook (page 81).

The other problem with Kharanas is that he does not deploy when HQs deploy, He deploys when he Infiltrates. Kharanas can't inflitrate any unit because any unit he could infiltrate with, will already be deployed. The reason it seems that he could infiltrate a unit, is the discription of the power Shadowstrike, was designed to work with the Scorpion Exarch who will always be attached to a unit.

if we was ment to work with the scorpion exarch why did they duplicate the power? the explanation of the phoenix lord power specificaly says the powers are not cumulative with each other. the fact is even if you deploy him with striking scorpions (with out an exarch) you would run into the same problem.

Exactly, which is why if you want Scorpions to Infiltrate with or without Karandras, you must buy them an Exarch.

Karandra's Shadowstrike can only be used to infiltrate himself by RAW.

Karandras + Harlies can't infiltrate anyway... Page 21 of the new codex, last paragraph of the page: "Note that Exarch powers can only ever affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs in the same squad as the Exarch using them."

Infiltrators deploy last, though.

So you'd have to place your Fast Attack in the deployment phase before your infiltrators, ie Karandras. Also, isn't there a special rule for the Phoenix Lords, "disciples" or some such, that prevents them from joining squads of other aspects?

Yeah, so no Infiltrating Banshees or Dragons.

Ok, I just tried to find it in the current FAQ but could not.  In the last edition of 40k I twas in the FAQ. 

It said something like.  If you deploy a leader with a unit or a unit in a vehicle that is not attached to the unit you deploy them both at the the slowest time.  So if you took an assault squad without jump packs, a fast choice, and you put them in a Land Raider a heavy choice they both deploy with the Heavys. 

If you put a leader with a unit that makes them infiltrate then you deploy them both during infiltration. 

To say that you have to deploy the unit and then move them when they suddenly get the infiltrate ability or to imply that Krandras could not make a unit of scorpions infiltrate if he joins them is silly. 

If he can make a unit of scorpions infiltrate, which he can, then he can join any other unit and make them infiltrate too, as long as they fit the other rules. 

But he can't make anything but Scorpions infiltrate, by the various rules (since the powers don't affect non-Aspects/Autarchs, and he can't join different Aspects). Thus, he's a one-trick pony.

I did not read anything in the rules that prevents him from joining a banshee squad.

The "Disciples" rule. THAT rule. The one that says "Phoenix Lords cannot join Aspect Warrior squads that are not of their Aspect".

what does it say about joining non-aspect squads such as Guardians or Harlies?

He can join them, but his powers don't affect them.

*Edit* Anyway, the codex is out!  Go get it, you lazy rules lawyers!