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Nurglitch wrote:
The way that 40k was grown, demo-game by demo-game, store-by-store and so on is often under-estimated by people planning on building a better game.

A big reason for that though was for a while 40k was the only game in town, and people are reluctant to try/spend money on games that "might" fail. You still see that today, doubly so when game stores won't stock the game and sometimes won't let you even play the game there to get it exposed because they don't sell it. So you end up fighting an uphill battle anyways.

tneva82 wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
As for the rest, if GW is more interested in money than competitive balance, why don't people do something about it? Take the Index and build a house meta around it. Launch a revolution to seize the means of design. Lol.

It has recently come to our attention that much of the information hosted on your website (the "Website"), provides us with cause for concern as it conflicts with our intellectual property rights. Although we are confident that the Website is a well-intentioned resource, we are acutely aware of the need to assert our intellectual property rights.

As you may appreciate, GW has a strict policy of protecting all of its intellectual property rights. To this end, we must insist that these materials are removed from the Website.

Hasn't stopped 9th ed from doing superior FB. Change names etc and good to go. Mechanics can't be protected. And as it is model wise you can make "not space marines" with no issues.

If players wanted they could create own 40k system no problem.

To be fair 9th had help in that Swedish comp was necessary for good even tournament play and so a fair amount of infrastructure for such an undertaking. That said Ninth is not for profit but for fun. GW is concerned about their ability to make money being compromised.

9th Age works because the ETC wanted to have it.

If they would have continued with 8th or used any other fan-made version of the game, 9th Age would be just one of many others

Same for 40k, if the ETC or ITC would decide to switch rules there could be something.
as long as they go with the current GW thing, nothing else will have a chance

Well the ITC (and FLG) is essentially the GW Ministry of Propaganda at this point, despite them changing the game drastically enough to be its own t hing.

Wayniac wrote:
Well the ITC (and FLG) is essentially the GW Ministry of Propaganda at this point, despite them changing the game drastically enough to be its own t hing.

First: lol

Second. You seem to be pretty spot on

I previously compared Reece to Goebbels but that was a bit... extreme. Although I do feel they are essentially a propaganda arm of GW now, despite half their arguments for why 40k is so great due to them changing the rules around.

The ITC needs 40k because of the mammoth player base. The ITC is pushing for professional 40k, sponsored streams, livable income for its organizers and the top players, gold plated shark tanks, and ferraris.

You can't get that without the mammoth player base.

That they have been able to change 40k so much to make it a game based on 40k and that so many people back it anyway is a testament to the game not being as important as the massive playerbase behind it that people are seeking out to protect their investment in their models.

 meatybtz wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The latest releases are definitely starting to creep back into the realm of 7E absurdity in terms of plain and open free power buffs resulting in obnoxiously obvious overpowered armies and overfawning on niche sub-subfactions, while the number of sources and books is also definitely starting to become an issue again with some lists requiring 3-5 different sources for rules.

On the competitive front, it's starting to look like GW is creeping back into the 7E disaster after having a mostly decent year. I'd been starting to retool and get more back into the game and picked up some new stuff, and painted for the first time in a couple years and going to events again, but I'm really not enthused by what I'm seeing out of the latest couple of releases.

Look at Psychic Awakening for confirmation of continuation down this crazy train..

Step One: Put out over priced boxed set with the models people have been asking for for more than a decade....almost two really.

Step Two: release new rule book that buffs the ever loving hell out of said box set making it a "new meta".

Step Three: Sell lots of overpriced Box set with mostly recycled old models

Step Four: It Prints MONEY HAHAHHAHAHA!

A week on from release and I am here to report that I believe all of one Phoenix box has been sold in one of the most active shops in North America.

Removed - BrookM

Now, when I say "Competitive" I don't mean "Average guy who likes to use the most effective list possible but still understands how to have fun with the game and play against anyone and have a friendly game".

I mean the WAAC players that will do anything up to and possibly including "softcore cheating". The guy that sees no difference in beating a skilled player and stomping a guy that still has the glue drying on his first Start Collecting box of Space Marines.

Let's sit here and pretend that anyone with a basic understanding of how the game works and lot of disposable income couldn't be a tournament-winner. You know, because Warhammer 40k is such a balanced and deep game that requires a shrewd tactical mind.

These are the guys that play exclusively to win. Now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to win and trying to win, or even playing aggressive and brutally effective lists with slick combinations. But if you MUST win, and that is the only thing that you can be satisfied with- then honestly, you're actually stupid. Because of all the games out there, Warhammer 40k changes way too often and is far too imbalanced to have that sort of addiction. It's like being allergic to seafood and wandering into Red Lobster and hoping they've still got one of those frozen hamburger patties or microwave spaghettis from the kids' menu, or you're gonna have a meltdown. Objectively stupid.

Take a deep breath, calm yourself, and objectively look at a lot of 40k players. Ask yourself how many of these people you would want at your kids' birthday party. How many of these people would you trust to pull money out of the ATM for you with your card? How many of these guys would you pay full up front for a commission without knowing their address?

You'll have a good handful (and if not, find a better place to game), but rest assured- there's a lot of scumbags.

On a positive note- it's not like this is exclusive to 40k. I've actually seen more toxic D&D players.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Removed - BrookM

Spoiler:

Now, when I say "Competitive" I don't mean "Average guy who likes to use the most effective list possible but still understands how to have fun with the game and play against anyone and have a friendly game".

I mean the WAAC players that will do anything up to and possibly including "softcore cheating". The guy that sees no difference in beating a skilled player and stomping a guy that still has the glue drying on his first Start Collecting box of Space Marines.

Let's sit here and pretend that anyone with a basic understanding of how the game works and lot of disposable income couldn't be a tournament-winner. You know, because Warhammer 40k is such a balanced and deep game that requires a shrewd tactical mind.

These are the guys that play exclusively to win. Now, there's nothing wrong with wanting to win and trying to win, or even playing aggressive and brutally effective lists with slick combinations. But if you MUST win, and that is the only thing that you can be satisfied with- then honestly, you're actually stupid. Because of all the games out there, Warhammer 40k changes way too often and is far too imbalanced to have that sort of addiction. It's like being allergic to seafood and wandering into Red Lobster and hoping they've still got one of those frozen hamburger patties or microwave spaghettis from the kids' menu, or you're gonna have a meltdown. Objectively stupid.

Take a deep breath, calm yourself, and objectively look at a lot of 40k players. Ask yourself how many of these people you would want at your kids' birthday party. How many of these people would you trust to pull money out of the ATM for you with your card? How many of these guys would you pay full up front for a commission without knowing their address?

You'll have a good handful (and if not, find a better place to game), but rest assured- there's a lot of scumbags.

On a positive note- it's not like this is exclusive to 40k. I've actually seen more toxic D&D players.

You talk of toxic attitudes and scumbags. Now, while I see where you're coming from with most of your post, I see no reason whatsoever to tar everyone in Special Olympics MMA with that same brush unless you think those quote: "sweaty 'tards" are also scumbags with toxic attitudes. If that's not the case, perhaps being more mindful of what comes across as, at best, grossly disrepectful might help tone down toxicity for everyone.

Warhammer 40k changes way too often and is far too imbalanced to have that sort of addiction.

You forget the addiction is however due to vast changing balance easily fed. Just not cheaply.
And i feel like that is part of GW's monetary scheme. It however imo poisons the well due to the changes , people get a taste off power. And the cyclical nature then turns this on it's head.