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2017/04/17 00:23:43
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
CTA has some verbiage about deploying withing 12" of CTA units. Which leads some to think that if you summon demons because the unit is CTA the automatically mishap.
The not a conflict. That's the rules functioning. Deep striking tells you how to resolve rules when deep strikers can't be deployed. CTA is just another example of a place models can't be deployed (much like on Impassible Terrain is a place models can't be deployed)
A rules conflict is like Invisiblity vs Kharn's Gorechild. Invis makes you hit on 6+, Kharn makes you hit on 2+. It's a conflict because you can't follow both rules, one has to be broken.
2017/04/17 00:29:06
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
The deepstrike rules explicitly state the circumstances that cause a deepstrike mishap to occur.
It only says 1"
What CTA says is not relevant because deepstrike is a special rule, which is there bending or breaking the CTA rule.
I agree there is no conflict, a special rule vs a special rule would be a conflict but some people think everything at grandma's house is a special rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 00:30:28
The rules don't say that "deploying for battle" is a specific deploying. They are using general term "deploying" and then telling you when and where you "deploy"
The rules don't agree with you.
'Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Fixed it for you
Ah, it looks like you are being silly. Changing what I mark in red does not change what the rules say.
Does this quote say just 'deploy' without the additional 'for battle' or 'deploy for battle'?
Spoiler:
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
The rules don't say that "deploying for battle" is a specific deploying. They are using general term "deploying" and then telling you when and where you "deploy"
The rules don't agree with you.
'Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Fixed it for you
Ah, it looks like you are being silly. Changing what I mark in red does not change what the rules say.
Does this quote say just 'deploy' without the additional 'for battle' or 'deploy for battle'?
Spoiler:
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
No it's showing you are reading the rule
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
No it's showing you are reading the rules wrong. You read "deploy" as its own term, not "deploy to battle"
No it's showing you are reading the rules wrong. You read "deploy" as its own term, not "deploy to battle"
The phrase is 'deploy for battle' not 'deploy to battle'. It's important to pay attention to what you read.
'Deploy for battle' is a specific deploying.
Spoiler:
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Per the rules, 'deploying for battle' is a specific deploying that happens Before the Game Begins during the Preparing for Battle step.
Which of these rules is in the BRB?
1) Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle.
2) Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
2017/04/17 02:04:21
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
I'd throw in my lot to lock the thread. I feel like people have made their arguments, the poll is clearly in favour of "yes", there isn't anything relevant left to add and this thread has turned into a pissing contest. Sorry about the language.
2017/04/17 02:36:37
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
CrownAxe wrote: My argument is the same regardless if it's for battle or to battle
Cool.
Your argument has zero rules support. My argument has rules support. So are you done here?
Summary
Spoiler:
'Deploy for battle' is a specific deploying.
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Per the rules, 'deploying for battle' is a specific deploying that happens Before the Game Begins during the Preparing for Battle step.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
2017/04/17 02:37:38
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
CrownAxe wrote: My argument is the same regardless if it's for battle or to battle
Cool.
Your argument has zero rules support. My argument has rules support. So are you done here?
Summary
Spoiler:
'Deploy for battle' is a specific deploying.
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Per the rules, 'deploying for battle' is a specific deploying that happens Before the Game Begins during the Preparing for Battle step.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
Your argument has zero rules support. My argument has rules support. So are you done here?
2017/04/17 02:59:01
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
Your argument has zero rules support. My argument has rules support. So are you done here?
What rules support your argument? You can check my summary for the ones that support mine.
Summary
Spoiler:
'Deploy for battle' is a specific deploying.
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Per the rules, 'deploying for battle' is a specific deploying that happens Before the Game Begins during the Preparing for Battle step.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
If summoning is not 'deploying for battle' then it is not subject to Come the Apocalypse rule.
Come the Apocalypse
Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle.
2017/04/17 03:54:01
Subject: Can Come-the-apocalypse allies summon daemons
Roknar wrote: I'd throw in my lot to lock the thread. I feel like people have made their arguments, the poll is clearly in favour of "yes", there isn't anything relevant left to add and this thread has turned into a pissing contest. Sorry about the language.
mchammadad wrote:(Deployment subtitle- Preparing for battle BRB)
There is where 'Deploying for battle' is
Not so hard when you apply common sense.
DEPLOYMENT
The only thing that remains to be done is the deployment of the two armies. If you are using a Warhammer 40,000 mission, it will tell you how to deploy the armies taking part in the battle. You will need to agree on the method you will use in your own games. We’ve included rules for the most common method used to deploy here. This is often referred to as the ‘Standard Deployment Method’ and is the method used in the majority of Warhammer 40,000 missions. You should feel free to devise other methods for your own game if you prefer. For example, some players like to place a screen across the centre of the table so that their armies can deploy in secret; others draw a map showing where they plan to deploy their units, and so on.
Whichever method you use, models must either deploy within their deployment zone, or be held back in Reserve. Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity. Units may not be deployed in impassable terrain. Note that models must be deployed fully within their deployment zone: you can’t have part of a model inside the deployment zone and part of the model outside it!
There is the ruling. nowhere does it state anything about summoning
Nothing in that states, "for battle".
Here is where it states "deploy for battle":
Game Turns and Player Turns > 'Before the Game Beings' and 'At the End of the Game':
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
And the aforementioned Come the Apocalypse:
Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle.
One is concerned when the armies are being deployed for battle (which would be deployment), and the other is when at least one of the units are being deployed (which can be deployment or any variant of Arriving for Reserves).
Deployment is what happens before the game begins. Deploying is when you put units on the table. Deep Striking puts units on the table. Conjuring and Summoning is Deep Striking.
Ceann wrote:The deepstrike rules explicitly state the circumstances that cause a deepstrike mishap to occur.
It only says 1"
What CTA says is not relevant because deepstrike is a special rule, which is there bending or breaking the CTA rule.
I agree there is no conflict, a special rule vs a special rule would be a conflict but some people think everything at grandma's house is a special rule.
Way to read an example as a limitation. The requirement is, "if they cannot be deployed". The 1" is given as the example because that is the standard distance your armies models must maintain from an enemy model. CTA changes that range for deploying from 1" to 12".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 04:51:58
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
Here is where it states "deploy for battle":
Game Turns and Player Turns > 'Before the Game Beings' and 'At the End of the Game':
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
And the aforementioned Come the Apocalypse:
Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle.
One is concerned when the armies are being deployed for battle (which would be deployment), and the other is when at least one of the units are being deployed (which can be deployment or any variant of Arriving for Reserves).
I have marked in red for you what is incorrect and has no rules support and that you are literally making up. Both are concerned with when the armies are being deployed for battle (which would be deployment).
'Deploy for battle' is a specific deploying.
Spoiler:
‘Before the Game Begins’ and ‘At the End of the Game’
During your game, you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens ‘before the game begins’. Examples of such events include generating Warlord Traits and psychic powers. These are always resolved before the armies deploy for battle.
Per the rules, 'deploying for battle' is a specific deploying that happens Before the Game Begins during the Preparing for Battle step.
So again, where does it say that summoning is 'deploying for battle'?
If summoning is not 'deploying for battle' then it is not subject to Come the Apocalypse rule.
Spoiler:
Come the Apocalypse
Units that will only ally ‘Come the Apocalypse’ are treated exactly like Desperate Allies, but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 05:00:28
