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2018/11/14 16:12:00
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
I'm still Theory-Hammering out a list (harder since I said "I won't get the Index, I'll just wait for the Codex") and then find Index options so preferable over the Codex...
Spoiler:
Evil Sunz Brigade (+12 CP)(-3 CP for Extra Gubbinz) 1650 points
120 HQ Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord: Brutal but Kunnin’ – Reroll hits; +1 Damage)
91 HQ Warboss on Warbike w/ Big Choppa = Headwoppa’s Killchoppa 120 HQ Zhadsnark Da Ripper w/ Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
215 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz
215 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz
75 TROOP 10 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, Tankbusta Bomb
29 ELITE Mek w/ Kustom Mega Slugga, Choppa
45 ELITE 5 Kommandos, Big Choppa Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
103 ELITE Painboy on Warbike w/’Urty Syringe, Power Klaw = Da Killa Klaw 164 FAST 3x Deff Kopta w/ Kopta Rokkits
200 HEAVY 2x Deff Dread w/Dread Klaw, 3x Dread Saw
93 HEAVY 3x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gunz
90 HEAVY 2x Mek Gunz: Traktor Kannonz
Blood Axe Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 349 points
70 HQ Boss Snikrot
62 HQ Weirdboy Warphead w/ Da Jump + Warpath
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
53 ELITE 5 Kommandos: Power Klaw Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
45 ELITE 5 Kommandos, Big Choppa Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
29 ELITE Mek w/ Kustom Mega Slugga, Choppa, & Finkin Kap: I’ve Got A Plan, Ladz! (CP Farming on a 6+)
1999 Points Total, 16 CP left after list construction.
Snikrot (70 point HQ unit! So Cheap!) and two units of Blood Axe Kommandos to take advantage of his +1 to hit aura and one Evil Sunz Kommandos unit to get the charge bonus will disrupt backfield campers without eating up CP for Tellyportin’ units. The Mek with the Finkin’ Kap is there to hide among the Blood Axe Gretchin and be untargetable while camping objectives. Unfortunately he can’t repair any Mek Gunz due <CLAN> mismatch, but at least he counts as being in Cover at more than 18” so the CP farming should stick around through most of the game.The Weirdboy Warphead can still cast Da Jump and Warpath on Evil Sunz units since Psyker powers don’t care about <CLAN> mismatches.
On the Evil Sunz side 3 Bikes & a Trike should get off a first turn charge on something. 30 Choppa Boyz can get Warpath’d and Da Jump’d into a first turn multi-charge into units weak enough in close combat (Tanks/Artillery/etc.) so a few survive in order to be recycled with 3 CP later. The lone Mek can repair Mek Gunz to keep them in the fight while the two Deff Dreads get Tellyported for a probable Turn 2 Charge for 2 CP before the game, leaving 14 CP to use during the game and see if any CP get refunded on a 6+ due to bullet catching Gretchin, fighting twice, mobbing up, and so forth.
If the Blood Axes aren’t your cup of tea, I could see replacing Snikrot with a KFF Mek from the Index (or spend 119 points for the Mega Armored version from the Codex) since KFFs don’t care about <CLAN> mismatches and re-purpose the remaining 79 points into another unit, but that wouldn’t even get 5 Lootas or Tankbustas, unless you can scrape up 6 points somewhere.
...and now my second thoughts are having third thoughts about renoberating the whole thing into Deathskulls for the 6++ and ObSec.... aaaAAARRRrrgh.
Gotta stop being paralyzed by the Theory-Hammer possibilities and actually go get a game in and get some real-world experience.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 16:14:08
2018/11/14 16:12:20
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
lord_blackfang wrote: I honestly feel like Deffskulls might be the best faction bonus in the game, in a vacuum. Even the -1 to be hit stuff is only better if you can stack it with another instance of the effect. It feels like GW just kept piling rules on it for some reason. It's 3 medium power effects in one. You could glue Snakebites and Blood Axes and Goffs together to be on about the same tier.
It's perhaps the sub-faction of the only Ork player in the studio
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 16:13:19
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
2018/11/14 16:35:40
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
So, since my army is painted as bloodaxes, some thoughts on them:
- My banner nob is getting the finkin' cap to pick the warlod trait for Waaagh! and breakin' heads and +1 CP. Hide him with the blood axes stratagem for instant aura-nob anywhere.
- I will have 3x 20 boyz set up in hiding for 3CP, they will appear somewhere in force or just take objectives from my opponents, depending on what the Maelstrom deck dictates.
- One of my bonebreakas will be transporting units of 10 boyz, so they can mob up with the hiding boyz later, where needed. Two bonebreaker will be carrying nobz.
- A kff big mek will start out between the wagons and then run after them, from experience 5+d6+3" is enough to repair them at least once after moving. The KFF, looting and cover from the bloodaxe trait should be enough to keep the army alive until the reinforcements hit hopefully the enemy tries to go after the nobz first, just to find out they are 2+ after looting.
- Warphead with Firsts of Gork and Warpath. He will get the bloodaxe warlord trait to regenerate CP, if my opponent is bringing lots of snipers, he'll just start the game in the boyz' bonebreaka, otherwise he will try to get to a position where he can fist of gork the warboss and support the koptas with warpath (+d3 hit rolls each) and smite.
- Bike warboss with relic klaw for punching stuff.
- Unit of 5 koptas as retinue. If I go first, they get -1 to hit, if I go second they have cover for 3+.
- Two single koptas will start off the board and try to eat overwatch for the sneaky boyz.
- 20 gretchin and a pain boy to complete the brigade. I like the pain boy over the minimek, because it actually has some impact on the game, while the points spent on the mek are just lost
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/11/14 16:53:50
Subject: Re:CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Runtherd
Warboss on bike Da Klaw and Brutal
Mek KFF Weirboy
10×6 gretchin
Mek
Mek
10x Tankabusta+2 squig
12x Bikes
24x Stormboyz
1x Köpta
G-Naut
3x Smasha
1x Traktor
Trunk
A lot of object grabbing, some decent shooting, a lot of mobility, tellyporta+3d6 G-Naut with kff (20 pl on the nose), support for the gun and runtherd for the cowardly grots
Edit: is the nob worthy of a KS instead o ff the PK? It is just 2 pts and it feels more likely to kill something juicy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 17:17:55
2018/11/14 17:34:23
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Snotrokkit wrote: Do embarked Freebooterz units benefit from the +1 to hit if a friendly clan unit within 24” of their transport has destroyed a unit that phase?
Not unless the transport is open topped and also FreeBooterz.
Isn't that the only instance where a Freebooterz unit would be in a transport and able to make use of the kultur anyway?
Technically there is also the boarding action stratagem, so in either of these situations does the embarked unit get to use the kultur “aura effect.” The TO for the tournament I will be playing in this weekend says “no.” So say your freebooterz boyz mob destroys an enemy unit with their Sluggaz; the unit of freebooterz Tankbustaz in a trukk nearby does not receive a +1 to hit from the kultur. The TO is treating it like an aura effect, even though the 24” bubble is centered on the unit receiving the buff, not on the buffing unit. It is a similar situation with psychic powers or Imperial Guard orders.
2018/11/14 17:44:53
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Snotrokkit wrote: Do embarked Freebooterz units benefit from the +1 to hit if a friendly clan unit within 24” of their transport has destroyed a unit that phase?
Not unless the transport is open topped and also FreeBooterz.
Isn't that the only instance where a Freebooterz unit would be in a transport and able to make use of the kultur anyway?
Technically there is also the boarding action stratagem, so in either of these situations does the embarked unit get to use the kultur “aura effect.” The TO for the tournament I will be playing in this weekend says “no.” So say your freebooterz boyz mob destroys an enemy unit with their Sluggaz; the unit of freebooterz Tankbustaz in a trukk nearby does not receive a +1 to hit from the kultur. The TO is treating it like an aura effect, even though the 24” bubble is centered on the unit receiving the buff, not on the buffing unit. It is a similar situation with psychic powers or Imperial Guard orders.
So, would your TO not allow a Bad Moonz unit in a trukk to reroll 1s to hit?
Would he allow a Tankbusta unit to reroll all hits against a vehicle?
These are all rules that the unit inside the transport has, and they all still apply. Why is it a similar situation with psychic powers or IG orders? In the case of psychic powers, a modifier applied to the transport would be applied to the passengers (explicitly RAW) and IG orders do not work on units in transports because IG does not have any open topped transports and they require an infantry unit on the board.
This is an asinine ruling.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/14 17:48:44
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
So you've managed to turn "this horde faction that can generate an assload of cp has amazing Stratagems" and reframe it as a whine. Amazing. Orks have:
-the most reliable deep strike in the game with zero CP expenditure
-among the best upfront anti tank units in the game in the smasha gun/trakktor, again with no cp, almost totally immune to rule of 3 since you can have frickin 15.
-multiple amazing detachment rules, evil sunz for deep strike/rush, deffskullz for msu, freebootas for mek gun spam, bad moonz with double shot Stratagem.
Don't like Stratagems? Run evil sunz, freebootas, or deff skulls, all of them don't give a feth about cp for the most part, except for dumping things into deep strike for sunz.
1: not a horde anymore. Since most lists people are building contact mostly grotz with 1 or 2 units of 30 boyz they aren't really a horde anymore.
2: Stating an opinion about the codex isn't a whine. Sorry I am not a fan of a codex that relies exclusively on stratagems to be good.
3: Most reliable deep strike......compared to what? A lot of armies have similar abilities. We are codex deep strike though because of The Evil Sunz tactic that lets us get a 75%ish chance of getting a charge off.
4: best upfront anti-tank units in the game...no. Smasha gunz are good as are traktor kannons, but they aren't OP nor are they the best. Also you can have 18 not just 15
5: Amazing detachment rules. I agree. Damn shame that GW doesn't know how to write them though. Or do you not find it odd that the BEST faction for Kommandos isn't blood axes, its Evil sunz, or that Warbikers are better taken as Bad Moonz instead of Evil Sunz?
6: Evil sunz dont work without stratagems. you need the tellyporta strike in order to be competitive.
Basically you and I disagree on how good the codex is, and we will have to wait for the next few months for players to make their own decisions. However, I do remember saying that the index was hot trash and nobody agreed for the longest time and now its almost universally known that the Ork index was held up exclusively by Boyz and that was about it.
Please don't call someone a "whiner" because they disagree with your opinion.
I'll be able to protect my backline characters with my MSU grechin and grot shield strat against snipers... surprised me.
Can you give the fixer uperz to a tiny mek and he has mechanic, right? Just 1 but... would that give him the flat 3 repair? seems good for the points if true...
What do you think would be the best clans/strats for a Garg-Squig focused list? Itchy to play him with the new rules in some way, was thinking snakebites for a 5++/6+++ with the KFF I stick in/next to him, or elts evil sunz to get that sweet mele stat line into combat all the sooner.. not much elts comes to mind...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 18:35:55
2018/11/14 18:36:08
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
So you've managed to turn "this horde faction that can generate an assload of cp has amazing Stratagems" and reframe it as a whine. Amazing. Orks have:
-the most reliable deep strike in the game with zero CP expenditure
-among the best upfront anti tank units in the game in the smasha gun/trakktor, again with no cp, almost totally immune to rule of 3 since you can have frickin 15.
-multiple amazing detachment rules, evil sunz for deep strike/rush, deffskullz for msu, freebootas for mek gun spam, bad moonz with double shot Stratagem.
Don't like Stratagems? Run evil sunz, freebootas, or deff skulls, all of them don't give a feth about cp for the most part, except for dumping things into deep strike for sunz.
1: not a horde anymore. Since most lists people are building contact mostly grotz with 1 or 2 units of 30 boyz they aren't really a horde anymore.
2: Stating an opinion about the codex isn't a whine. Sorry I am not a fan of a codex that relies exclusively on stratagems to be good.
3: Most reliable deep strike......compared to what? A lot of armies have similar abilities. We are codex deep strike though because of The Evil Sunz tactic that lets us get a 75%ish chance of getting a charge off.
4: best upfront anti-tank units in the game...no. Smasha gunz are good as are traktor kannons, but they aren't OP nor are they the best. Also you can have 18 not just 15
5: Amazing detachment rules. I agree. Damn shame that GW doesn't know how to write them though. Or do you not find it odd that the BEST faction for Kommandos isn't blood axes, its Evil sunz, or that Warbikers are better taken as Bad Moonz instead of Evil Sunz?
6: Evil sunz dont work without stratagems. you need the tellyporta strike in order to be competitive.
Basically you and I disagree on how good the codex is, and we will have to wait for the next few months for players to make their own decisions. However, I do remember saying that the index was hot trash and nobody agreed for the longest time and now its almost universally known that the Ork index was held up exclusively by Boyz and that was about it.
Please don't call someone a "whiner" because they disagree with your opinion.
Most reliable deep strike with no CP compared to anyone. Literally any army and any subfaction - all the other armies with access to reroll charges can't choose one or both dice to reroll, and even GSC have to use CP to boost up their chance of a 5 or 6 to have better odds than us. And I'm not just talking about Evil Sunz - any ork unit from any kultur has better odds of getting in off deep strike without spending CP than any other army's unit.
I'm pretty confused as to where you'd put the line where Smasha Guns would go from "Good" to "OP". They do more damage per point to T7 3+ and T8 3+ 5++ vehicles than tons of things that are currently considered "OP" - Dissie ravagers in reroll 1 to hit auras, catachan shadowswords and basilisks, and onager dunecrawlers standing in Cawl's aura. If you do not see these things spammed in at least one top table tourney list in the next couple months I will eat my hat.
You seem to think everyone shares your exact definition of "best". The "best" way to run warbikes is the way that maximises their damage output? To me, the "best" way to run them is the way that maximises their ability to score and tie up weaker units in melee while still shooting at full capacity, which is definitely Evil Sunz. if you only care about damage with them, why not run them as Freebootas, where you get a bigger bonus, or Deffskullz, where the one Nob in the unit can do some real work? Oh, that's weird, it looks like you can choose multiple different clans and get different benefits depending on what you want out of the unit, and there's not just one "best" option. Same deal with Kommandos - here you switch "best" from "most damage" to "most reliable off of deep strike" because it suits the complaint you want to make. Blood Axe kommandos have the Snikrot aura buff. Deffskullz kommandos would get the most mileage out of the single klaw and tankbusta bomb. Evil Sunz kommandos have a 15% higher chance of getting into combat.
There are still plenty of people who complain about the pieces of the dark eldar codex they don't like over at thedarkcity, and people that complain about how underpowered Guard is here on dakka. When you exclusively focus on negatives and reframe all positives into negatives just so you can continue to complain, you cross the boundary from "disagreement" to "whining."
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/11/14 18:44:50
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Snotrokkit wrote: Do embarked Freebooterz units benefit from the +1 to hit if a friendly clan unit within 24” of their transport has destroyed a unit that phase?
Not unless the transport is open topped and also FreeBooterz.
Isn't that the only instance where a Freebooterz unit would be in a transport and able to make use of the kultur anyway?
Technically there is also the boarding action stratagem, so in either of these situations does the embarked unit get to use the kultur “aura effect.” The TO for the tournament I will be playing in this weekend says “no.” So say your freebooterz boyz mob destroys an enemy unit with their Sluggaz; the unit of freebooterz Tankbustaz in a trukk nearby does not receive a +1 to hit from the kultur. The TO is treating it like an aura effect, even though the 24” bubble is centered on the unit receiving the buff, not on the buffing unit. It is a similar situation with psychic powers or Imperial Guard orders.
So, would your TO not allow a Bad Moonz unit in a trukk to reroll 1s to hit?
Would he allow a Tankbusta unit to reroll all hits against a vehicle?
These are all rules that the unit inside the transport has, and they all still apply. Why is it a similar situation with psychic powers or IG orders? In the case of psychic powers, a modifier applied to the transport would be applied to the passengers (explicitly RAW) and IG orders do not work on units in transports because IG does not have any open topped transports and they require an infantry unit on the board.
This is an asinine ruling.
That's a false comparison. Transported units can benefit from their own abilities just fine, but they cannot be affected bu range-dependent abilities like auras and the Freebooter kultur because they are not on the table and thus cannot be within x inches of anything.
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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.
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2018/11/14 19:12:56
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Vineheart01 wrote: technically speaking Bad Moonz are probably one of the worst kultures.
Rerolls of 1 when shooting doesnt help a good chunk of orks, either because they have no shooting in the first place or its just a slugga. They offer absolutely nothing for melee, which is weird since Meganobz are commonly shown off as Bad Moonz.
However i still love them both because its always been my fav colorscheme (and that wins on its own) and ESPECIALLY with KustomMegas doing D6 damage now its pretty easy to pop or severely damage big threats before the charge, and our charge is strong by default. If i face a numbers list then this is pretty moot.
So many rokkits and KMBs.....
The klan ability is awful.
The saving grace of bad moons is the ridiculously exploitable shoot twice strategem. Combine with more Dakka, salt to taste on whatever giant shooty unit catches your fancy.
It's easily the most braindead clan to optimize. Tankbustas, Lootas, take your pick and roll buckets of dice.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2018/11/14 19:29:21
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Snotrokkit wrote: Do embarked Freebooterz units benefit from the +1 to hit if a friendly clan unit within 24” of their transport has destroyed a unit that phase?
Not unless the transport is open topped and also FreeBooterz.
Isn't that the only instance where a Freebooterz unit would be in a transport and able to make use of the kultur anyway?
Technically there is also the boarding action stratagem, so in either of these situations does the embarked unit get to use the kultur “aura effect.” The TO for the tournament I will be playing in this weekend says “no.” So say your freebooterz boyz mob destroys an enemy unit with their Sluggaz; the unit of freebooterz Tankbustaz in a trukk nearby does not receive a +1 to hit from the kultur. The TO is treating it like an aura effect, even though the 24” bubble is centered on the unit receiving the buff, not on the buffing unit. It is a similar situation with psychic powers or Imperial Guard orders.
So, would your TO not allow a Bad Moonz unit in a trukk to reroll 1s to hit?
Would he allow a Tankbusta unit to reroll all hits against a vehicle?
These are all rules that the unit inside the transport has, and they all still apply. Why is it a similar situation with psychic powers or IG orders? In the case of psychic powers, a modifier applied to the transport would be applied to the passengers (explicitly RAW) and IG orders do not work on units in transports because IG does not have any open topped transports and they require an infantry unit on the board.
This is an asinine ruling.
That's a false comparison. Transported units can benefit from their own abilities just fine, but they cannot be affected bu range-dependent abilities like auras and the Freebooter kultur because they are not on the table and thus cannot be within x inches of anything.
The TO's wrong, but not for that reason. There's no way to measure from the unit (since it isn't on the table), you are right, but that's irrelevant. Open Topped gives the unit inside the vehicle the +1 (assuming they are both Freeboota tagged), as that's most definitely a modifier and "any restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers".
If they start ignoring that, then you end up being able to shoot heavy weapons while the transport advances or shoot while the vehicle's engaged. What happens when your mounted Freeboota unit shoots at a Raven Guard unit? How do you measure if they're within 18"?
2018/11/14 19:48:26
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Trimarius wrote: If they start ignoring that, then you end up being able to shoot heavy weapons while the transport advances or shoot while the vehicle's engaged. What happens when your mounted Freeboota unit shoots at a Raven Guard unit? How do you measure if they're within 18"?
I agree with this completely. If 12 tankbustas can all shoot from the front bumper, even though none of them are standing on it, why can't my warboss call a waaagh! from there?
The correct answer is "because GW said so, that's why." Unfortunately this isn't a very satisfying answer.
2018/11/14 20:09:55
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
i'd bring the open topped rule to that TO's attention. Even if the units inside ARENT freebootas, but the transport is, they'd get the modifier because of Open Topped. Only thing that isnt shared is Mobile Fortress strictly because it says it doesnt. (though i think thats an impossible scenario anyway, as freebootas are granted access to other clan transports but not other way around)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 20:10:20
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2018/11/14 20:16:37
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Trimarius wrote: What happens when your mounted Freeboota unit shoots at a Raven Guard unit? How do you measure if they're within 18"?
It says to measure distances from the vehicle hull when shooting; otherwise, even with infinite range they would never be in range to shoot anything.
That was part of my point. The vehicle is what's important, the passengers almost become equipment for it. So if the vehicle is getting the Freeboota +1 to hit, the boyz inside are too (otherwise the game falls apart).
I can't think of a way to give non-Freeboota models the +1 (since transports are klan locked besides the already Freeboota Flash Gitz), but you do run into some silly situations where you can give transported Gretchin the +1 or a unit in a Chinork a +1 to hit flyers with the flying vehicle only strat Long, Uncontrolled Bursts (again, only the transport matters, it passes modifiers on to the payload, however counter-intuitive that might be). Though I did just notice that Flash Gitz can't get into another clan's transports if they have any Ammo Runts, funnily enough, as the grots don't have the Flash Gitz tag, only the Freeboota tag. I guess everyone else is afraid the runts are incontinent?
It gets really awkward when you have to define what "modifiers" means, though. Obviously +/- to a roll is pretty straightforward, but what about rerolls? More Dakka? I'd definitely say they modify the result of the action, but should they count? Now we're into contentious territory.
-Edit-
CaptainO - No, the boyz basically don't exist while inside a transport. They wouldn't even count if they were embarked in the same transport, as there's nothing to measure to. Kaptain Badrukk doesn't let Flash Gitz he's riding with reroll 1s, for example, even though they're presumably rubbing shoulders in that trukk.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 21:08:42
2018/11/14 21:16:05
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
1: not a horde anymore. Since most lists people are building contact mostly grotz with 1 or 2 units of 30 boyz they aren't really a horde anymore.
Just because others are running minimum grot squads +toys.. doesnt mean orks arent a horde army. I plunked down 180 goff boyz the other night and wrecked face.
2: Stating an opinion about the codex isn't a whine. Sorry I am not a fan of a codex that relies exclusively on stratagems to be good.
You're right. An opinion isnt a whine. Maybe the tone (which is ironic because this is the internet, but we all know there is a tone to these things) that came across as whiny. But youre statement that the codex is only good because of/using the starts isnt true. Its a great book because it values multiple playstyles and unit choices then ever before..as well as relevant warlord traits, and kulture.
3: Most reliable deep strike......compared to what? A lot of armies have similar abilities. We are codex deep strike though because of The Evil Sunz tactic that lets us get a 75%ish chance of getting a charge off.
This is not debateable. Its not subjective. Orks are the absolute best deep strikers in the game right now. Between multiple ways to do it (blood axe strat, tellyport, da jump etc) and re-roll one OR both dice on charging... its not even close. Also evil sunz shenangans are icing on the green cake.
4: best upfront anti-tank units in the game...no. Smasha gunz are good as are traktor kannons, but they aren't OP nor are they the best. Also you can have 18 not just 15
I think he meant tankbustas which are amazing at killing vehicles. RR all hits and flat three damage is great. ESPECIALLY with a shoot twice strat.
5: Amazing detachment rules. I agree. Damn shame that GW doesn't know how to write them though. Or do you not find it odd that the BEST faction for Kommandos isn't blood axes, its Evil sunz, or that Warbikers are better taken as Bad Moonz instead of Evil Sunz?
I admit this bugs me. but not much you can do. Atleast evil sunz bikes and evil sunz wartrike can easily get first turn charge off.. which is very fluffy.
6: Evil sunz dont work without stratagems. you need the tellyporta strike in order to be competitive.
Again this isnt true. da jumping boyz turn one is amazing with evil sunz. sure tellyporting MANz and Deff dreads is dope.. but its hardly an easy mode win.
I always appreciate your contibutions to these threads. Cant back you up on this one though bro.
2018/11/14 22:00:02
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
So I finally won my first game with the ork codex. I currently 3-1 I haven't used the same list twice. I defeated a Magnus/Mortarian list, that was supported by bloodletters, pink horrors, some deamon princes.
My previous lists have been a death skull horde backed up by something else (warbikes, stormboyz)...
My list was as follows:
Evil Sunz Battalion
Zhadsnark
Wartrike
Biker Boss w/ relic klaw
3 units of 20 boyz
3 battlewagons
1 bonebreaker
6 mega nobz w/ power klawz
Bad Moonz Battalion
Big Mek w/ Bike KFF and Bad Moonz relic
Biker Boss w// relic klaw
3 units of 10 grotz
15 lootaz
Highlights
The 15 lootaz double shot and killed Magnus. I incorrectly used long uncontrolled burst on them to get +1 to hit. I should have just used More Dakka.
It took two rounds of combat with Zhadsnark a battlewagon and the biker boss to kill Motarion.
Battlewagons and bonebreakers put out alot of 2 damage wounds. They are way better and significantly cheaper than they used to be.
Boyz didn't do much...
The Gobstopper blunderbuss was useful on the Big mek.
Going forward I am thinking less boyz more bonebreakers and a couple of wierdboyz.
orks 10000+ points
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.
2018/11/14 22:33:57
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
gungo wrote: When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.
If you remember, many months ago Games Workshop made the goofy decision to make "1" the lowest number that any die roll can be modified. At the time, this primarily impacted plasma, because instead of rolling like this
(plasmagun shooting unit with -1 to hit)
I roll a 1, 3, and 4.
The 3 becomes a 2, the 4 becomes a 3. But the 1 STAYS A 1, it doesn't become 0, so my model still dies having rolled a 1.
This means that a unit that makes it to a 1+ armor save fails on all unmodified rolls of 1, but is no longer affected by AP essentially, because:
I get shot by a lascannon with a 1+ armor save. I roll a 2, a 3, and a 4.
All of them get modified down to the minimum value - a 1, just like the plasma gun.
I have a 1+ armor save.
I still pass all those saves.
I think you calculate the save first and than check the 1+ rule. Like when your 1+ meganob gets shot by a lazcannon it geta a 2+, +1, -3 resulting in 4+.
Otherwise any unit with 2+ armor would get 2++ by your logic if they step in cover.
Don't see how what makes you think this rule goes before modifiers.
2018/11/14 22:46:00
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
CaptainO wrote: do boys in transport count towards the "+1 to psychic test per 10 boys within 6""?
No, they do not. Don't forget Power of the Waaaagh! was heavily nerfed, it now doesn't count Gretchin and is capped to +3.
I think that is overstated. +3 to cast is fine most of the time, and now weirdboyz perils less often. Plus now there is no need to count and argue about how many models are within x number of inches.
orks 10000+ points
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.
2018/11/14 22:47:58
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
Lots of biker bosses and KFF Big Meks out there in the competitive lists. Even seen a few Painboyz and Meks on bikes.
How do we fare if we use codex options and models only?
I want to prepare for the inevitable. I think GW will become more strict on the index options when they realise we can take big bomms on koptas and a few other options for free.
Also Semper is entitled to his opinion on the codex. Trying to argue with him about his opinion is futile and stupid. I can certainly see his point regarding our reliance on stratagems though. It will be interesting to see how we fare against DE when they shut down grot screen and kill that valuable, squishy unit.
2018/11/15 01:12:11
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
The only reason index options were removed is the chapter house model equals rules.
The index has at least another year worth of codecs before it gets the power level treatment.
GW has to many models they still make that are index only.
Sisters, GSC, assassins, inquisitors and all those agents of imperium, khorne etc.... I honestly think after all those plus slannesh we will get chapter approved 2019 and be close to 9th edition where they do a rules consolidation of the way to many chapter approved changes and big faq changes gets rolled into 9th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Frowbakk wrote: I'm still Theory-Hammering out a list (harder since I said "I won't get the Index, I'll just wait for the Codex") and then find Index options so preferable over the Codex...
Evil Sunz Brigade (+12 CP)(-3 CP for Extra Gubbinz) 1650 points
120 HQ Deffkilla Wartrike (Warlord: Brutal but Kunnin’ – Reroll hits; +1 Damage)
91 HQ Warboss on Warbike w/ Big Choppa = Headwoppa’s Killchoppa 120 HQ Zhadsnark Da Ripper w/ Da Beast: 2x Big Shoota
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
215 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz
215 TROOP 30 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, 3x Tankbusta Bombz
75 TROOP 10 Choppa Boyz, Big Choppa Nob, Tankbusta Bomb
29 ELITE Mek w/ Kustom Mega Slugga, Choppa
45 ELITE 5 Kommandos, Big Choppa Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
103 ELITE Painboy on Warbike w/’Urty Syringe, Power Klaw = Da Killa Klaw 164 FAST 3x Deff Kopta w/ Kopta Rokkits
200 HEAVY 2x Deff Dread w/Dread Klaw, 3x Dread Saw
93 HEAVY 3x Mek Gunz: Smasha Gunz
90 HEAVY 2x Mek Gunz: Traktor Kannonz
Blood Axe Battalion (+5 CP)(-1 CP for Warphead) 349 points
70 HQ Boss Snikrot
62 HQ Weirdboy Warphead w/ Da Jump + Warpath
90 TROOP 3x 10 Grots
53 ELITE 5 Kommandos: Power Klaw Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
45 ELITE 5 Kommandos, Big Choppa Nob, 2x Burnas, Tankbusta Bomb
29 ELITE Mek w/ Kustom Mega Slugga, Choppa, & Finkin Kap: I’ve Got A Plan, Ladz! (CP Farming on a 6+)
1999 Points Total, 16 CP left after list construction.
Snikrot (70 point HQ unit! So Cheap!) and two units of Blood Axe Kommandos to take advantage of his +1 to hit aura and one Evil Sunz Kommandos unit to get the charge bonus will disrupt backfield campers without eating up CP for Tellyportin’ units. The Mek with the Finkin’ Kap is there to hide among the Blood Axe Gretchin and be untargetable while camping objectives. Unfortunately he can’t repair any Mek Gunz due <CLAN> mismatch, but at least he counts as being in Cover at more than 18” so the CP farming should stick around through most of the game.The Weirdboy Warphead can still cast Da Jump and Warpath on Evil Sunz units since Psyker powers don’t care about <CLAN> mismatches.
On the Evil Sunz side 3 Bikes & a Trike should get off a first turn charge on something. 30 Choppa Boyz can get Warpath’d and Da Jump’d into a first turn multi-charge into units weak enough in close combat (Tanks/Artillery/etc.) so a few survive in order to be recycled with 3 CP later. The lone Mek can repair Mek Gunz to keep them in the fight while the two Deff Dreads get Tellyported for a probable Turn 2 Charge for 2 CP before the game, leaving 14 CP to use during the game and see if any CP get refunded on a 6+ due to bullet catching Gretchin, fighting twice, mobbing up, and so forth.
If the Blood Axes aren’t your cup of tea, I could see replacing Snikrot with a KFF Mek from the Index (or spend 119 points for the Mega Armored version from the Codex) since KFFs don’t care about <CLAN> mismatches and re-purpose the remaining 79 points into another unit, but that wouldn’t even get 5 Lootas or Tankbustas, unless you can scrape up 6 points somewhere.
...and now my second thoughts are having third thoughts about renoberating the whole thing into Deathskulls for the 6++ and ObSec.... aaaAAARRRrrgh.
Gotta stop being paralyzed by the Theory-Hammer possibilities and actually go get a game in and get some real-world experience.
gungo wrote: When you guys say 2++ manz do you mean 1+ armor saves? I don’t see where you get 2++ which generally means invulnerable saves. And I don’t see 1+ armor saves as an issue since 1s always fail and there are plenty of -3 ap weapons in game.
If you remember, many months ago Games Workshop made the goofy decision to make "1" the lowest number that any die roll can be modified. At the time, this primarily impacted plasma, because instead of rolling like this
(plasmagun shooting unit with -1 to hit)
I roll a 1, 3, and 4.
The 3 becomes a 2, the 4 becomes a 3. But the 1 STAYS A 1, it doesn't become 0, so my model still dies having rolled a 1.
This means that a unit that makes it to a 1+ armor save fails on all unmodified rolls of 1, but is no longer affected by AP essentially, because:
I get shot by a lascannon with a 1+ armor save. I roll a 2, a 3, and a 4.
All of them get modified down to the minimum value - a 1, just like the plasma gun.
I have a 1+ armor save.
I still pass all those saves.
I think you calculate the save first and than check the 1+ rule. Like when your 1+ meganob gets shot by a lazcannon it geta a 2+, +1, -3 resulting in 4+.
Otherwise any unit with 2+ armor would get 2++ by your logic if they step in cover.
Don't see how what makes you think this rule goes before modifiers.
This has been discussed in YMDC; let’s leave it there.
The difference is that “Loot It” modifies the save statistic, and cover modifies the save roll - negative AP modifies the save roll as well, not the statistic.
Per current rules, any roll lower than a 1 gets modified to 1 - which a 1+ save will succeed at. Only “natural” rolls of 1 fail; so it’s a 1/6 chance if you have a 1+ save.
No, this is not the way most people would play it - but it IS the way the rules, as written, and supported through faqs ARE written.
2018/11/15 02:01:05
Subject: CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.
CaptainO wrote: do boys in transport count towards the "+1 to psychic test per 10 boys within 6""?
No, they do not. Don't forget Power of the Waaaagh! was heavily nerfed, it now doesn't count Gretchin and is capped to +3.
I think that is overstated. +3 to cast is fine most of the time, and now weirdboyz perils less often. Plus now there is no need to count and argue about how many models are within x number of inches.
I agree. The +3 is right about at the sweet spot.
Just noticed something...Warpheads still can only make one Deny the Witch roll per turn, correct?
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
