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Aberrants [14 PL, 233pts]
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Aberrant (Hammer): Heavy Power Hammer
7x Aberrant (Pick): 7x Power Pick
Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now I have a 19 Acolytes just for Damage in CC, a 9 Acolytes just for screen clearing and the Magus with the Crouchling because the damned psychic powers have to go
Automatically Appended Next Post: Today was another disaster, my opponent had a 5xKastellan Robots with Belisarius, I killed one with shooting, I was not able to tarpit the unit because he had 5 units of troops to screen them and 2 turns to run freely and create a large footprint, so that unit of 4 models basically wiped all my army in his 3rd round.
The point is that when the opponent has 20 30 wounds of screen, there is no way I can clear them all to strike the real damage dealers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/09 23:59:27
Yeah, you definitely need more screen clearing. I don't think a single flamer unit is ever going to be able to effectively do the job, because players who run screens are going to run multiple units. Maybe a Vendetta or gattling tank?
Today was another disaster, my opponent had a 5xKastellan Robots with Belisarius, I killed one with shooting, I was not able to tarpit the unit because he had 5 units of troops to screen them and 2 turns to run freely and create a large footprint, so that unit of 4 models basically wiped all my army in his 3rd round.
The point is that when the opponent has 20 30 wounds of screen, there is no way I can clear them all to strike the real damage dealers.
I believe you can combine 'lying in wait' and 'perfect ambush' for one unit. If you use 20 acolytes with hand flamers the can shoot twice. That really burns any cheap bubble wrap. Do this at turn 2 and drop in the rest at turn 3. Mass hypnosis + perfect ambush rock saws/abberants will do the trick.
You got a 'bit of everything' armylist and that doesn't work with GSC. they're to fragile for that. You need to fully commit to a strategy.
DarklyDreaming wrote: Today was another disaster, my opponent had a 5xKastellan Robots with Belisarius, I killed one with shooting, I was not able to tarpit the unit because he had 5 units of troops to screen them and 2 turns to run freely and create a large footprint, so that unit of 4 models basically wiped all my army in his 3rd round.
The point is that when the opponent has 20 30 wounds of screen, there is no way I can clear them all to strike the real damage dealers.
Imagine you didn't have the Russes but instead turn 2 you drop 15 flamers and charge his screens with 2x20 acolytes. How big is the hole going to be for your turn 3 punch of the saw acolytes + abberants?
I definitely agree you are giving up too much board presence too early for your turn 2 strike to be useful. You either have to have enough on the board to shoot a threatening hard target like bots Or you have to have your own screen.
If you look at top GSC lists, they've generally gone for the latter strategy. I saw one just recently that had six double mining laser neophyte squads in a bladed cog detachment protected by an iconward, plus a Jackal alphus and 2 Achilles Ridgerunners.
Between Patriarch Aura, Iconward Aura, Bladed Cog/Rusted Claw we have all the tools to use either neophytes or brood bros as a rock solid board anchor. Our deep strike shenanigans are strong, but if you rely only on them you're very sensitive to being screened just like what happened to you there.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Hello all. Hope this is in the right place. So, after playing nids since the start of 5th then moving into Orks also, I've finally managed to get round to buying the GSC codex.
So far I've got the contents of DWverkill, 2 boxes of guardsmen, 1 heavy weapons teams box and a box of acolytes.
My questions to you though are...
Looking through the codex it seems the army is highly reliant on the characters, I'm going on a shopping spree next week so which do you think are the most important to get first? Kellermorph if im able to find it? Second magus (hopefully the awesome female one)?
Goliaths. Are rockgrinders any good? do you have any tips or setups for using them? I like the look of the model with its big drill things and the idea of one or two of them surrounded by nomad bikers Mad Max Style
Army will initially be an add on to my Nids simply because of the sheer number of models needed for a pure army.
Thought i might go for a few vehicles and bikes for a change from my nids and I really like the orange/purple rusted claw scheme.
I mostly play in a fairly relaxed semi competitive environment ( we even have an Eldar Wraithguard player who actually uses the Iyanden trait...I know, weird right?)
Now I have way more shooting: 15d6 flamers and 5d6 demolition charges, plus 36 autogun in close range and 2 grenade launchers, which all will benefit for the jackal... all to add to the 2 LR and other 20 brood brothers in the backfield. Only problem is the lack of Patriarch, which means that the Acolytes will run away, but as far is my experience, they die so horribly that it does not make a difference.
Idk I would say you have very little to actually deep strike with. 2 leman russes seems like a lot of points that could be better spent on acolytes. Even if you need to deep strike to kill part of a screen you should have more waves coming.
Scotsman and Ordana are right, I should drop the Russes and focus even more on infantry, the problem is that I have already like 40 Acolytes and 30 Neophytes (plus cultist that I can prox as brood brothers) and I don't want to buy or paint more, it's just too much
DarklyDreaming wrote: Scotsman and Ordana are right, I should drop the Russes and focus even more on infantry, the problem is that I have already like 40 Acolytes and 30 Neophytes (plus cultist that I can prox as brood brothers) and I don't want to buy or paint more, it's just too much
If a horde of bodies is not what your looking for have you considered going heavier into Guard?
A small GSC detachment for Acolytes and more Guard in a detachment so you can get the better LR variants (punishers are much better to clear screens), Tank Commanders, Orders for a bunch of infantry squads ect.
Tho then the question starts to creep in, why not just play Guard?
To me GSC is about putting 100+ screaming hybrids in the enemies face and tearing him pieces. And you can do that without anything bigger then a guardsman. So all those big guys your opponent brought are stuck shooting 7 point models.
I sympathize on the buying/painting models thing but ultimately I think GSC is a horde army to be competitive. Both of our allies are best as hordes too.
I started with 45 acolytes and quickly realized I need at least 60. Around 80 is probably ideal honesty.
Folks keep failing to understand the major issue of timing coupled with area control. The more you lean on acolytes from reserve (the only way your making them work) the less table presence you have. Which means they can screen them back further and with cheap garbage because nothing in our book shoots screens down remotely efficiently.
Flamer acolytes are not good at removing screens, they cost WAY to many CP, are not that cheap and only have range to hit the front layer of screening before dying easily. Do you guys seriously play opponents with single layers of screening?
One of my main opponents plays admech, rangers are filthy cheap at 7ppm and in mars have a 3+ save from shooting and essentially have 30" range bolters. It's a nightmare removing these guys from range and even assaulting your just trading 7 point dudes for 7 point dudes. Meanwhile dakka bots were basically designed to shut our army down. Long range, insane output, and AP-2 with ignore cover meaning we don't get saves anywhere. One unit of 6 is only 660 lol. They can shoot 108 times with full rerolls next to cawl. They will scrub 68 guys a turn. 81 if they wrath of mars. With cawl they only spent 850. That leaves them 1150 to spend on other things, so engine seer and 50 rangers for 380. They still have 770 they can use on any number of things. All those guys BTW will have a 3+ save against those hand flamers, they can also auspex scan the unit and murder half of it before it does anything.
Red Corsair wrote: Flamer acolytes are not good at removing screens, they cost WAY to many CP, are not that cheap and only have range to hit the front layer of screening before dying easily. Do you guys seriously play opponents with single layers of screening?
Their good at removing cheap bubble wrap and I would only spend that many CP's if I knew it would give the rest of my army the opportunity to push thru and win the day. But this only works if you 'go big' and that doesn't work with a 'little bit of everything' GSC armylist. GSC-army is not an easy army and you need to be smart to pull out a win against the top lists.
Turn 2. Let's say you 'perfect ambush' 20 brood brothers infantry + deep strike an acolyte rocksaw unit in cover behind the brood brothers. 20 brood brothers assault bubble wrap and tri-pod a model, and lock it. Next turn the enemy tries to shoot at the acolytes but then you cast 'lurk in the shadows'. The cannot target the unit because it's not the closest. This gives you options next turn. Maybe move them + advance and use psychic stimulus + mass hypnosis to assault the bots or something.
One of my main opponents plays admech, rangers are filthy cheap at 7ppm and in mars have a 3+ save from shooting and essentially have 30" range bolters. It's a nightmare removing these guys from range and even assaulting your just trading 7 point dudes for 7 point dudes. Meanwhile dakka bots were basically designed to shut our army down. Long range, insane output, and AP-2 with ignore cover meaning we don't get saves anywhere. One unit of 6 is only 660 lol. They can shoot 108 times with full rerolls next to cawl. They will scrub 68 guys a turn. 81 if they wrath of mars. With cawl they only spent 850. That leaves them 1150 to spend on other things, so engine seer and 50 rangers for 380. They still have 770 they can use on any number of things. All those guys BTW will have a 3+ save against those hand flamers, they can also auspex scan the unit and murder half of it before it does anything.
Don't see a lot of lists with 50 rangers + bots. The simply die against any knight list. But even so, 20 acolytes that perfect ambush + lying in wait shoots with 20xd6 shots that auto hit. First layer dies against that kind of shooting. If the opponent really castle up in a corner, you even might just drop down 20 models every turn with 'lying a wait' to simply keep the enemy in its place and go for the other objectives. Simply put a unit 'back in the shadows' in turn 3,4 etc.. and drop them in next turn to harass the enemies army with 'lying in wait'. It's crazy gak like that that gives GSC a win.
Red Corsair wrote: Folks keep failing to understand the major issue of timing coupled with area control. The more you lean on acolytes from reserve (the only way your making them work) the less table presence you have. Which means they can screen them back further and with cheap garbage because nothing in our book shoots screens down remotely efficiently.
Flamer acolytes are not good at removing screens, they cost WAY to many CP, are not that cheap and only have range to hit the front layer of screening before dying easily. Do you guys seriously play opponents with single layers of screening?
One of my main opponents plays admech, rangers are filthy cheap at 7ppm and in mars have a 3+ save from shooting and essentially have 30" range bolters. It's a nightmare removing these guys from range and even assaulting your just trading 7 point dudes for 7 point dudes. Meanwhile dakka bots were basically designed to shut our army down. Long range, insane output, and AP-2 with ignore cover meaning we don't get saves anywhere. One unit of 6 is only 660 lol. They can shoot 108 times with full rerolls next to cawl. They will scrub 68 guys a turn. 81 if they wrath of mars. With cawl they only spent 850. That leaves them 1150 to spend on other things, so engine seer and 50 rangers for 380. They still have 770 they can use on any number of things. All those guys BTW will have a 3+ save against those hand flamers, they can also auspex scan the unit and murder half of it before it does anything.
That is exactly my problem, I try to focus on the worst opponent, so I should be able to face everybody... but what is the solution then?
Normally, whenever I see anyone talk about this item they reference it as if it was only worthwhile on the Sanctus. And since it's only a minor upgrade to his dagger it's generally discounted.
But what about giving it to the Kelermorph instead? Granted, he's 'only' WS3+, but he'll still have 4 attacks with it and it takes him from S3 AP0 D1 to S3 AP-2 D2 that wounds almost everything on a 2+ and inflicts an additional d3 Mortal Wounds to any character damaged by it.
Given that the Kelermorph needs to be within charge range just to shoot his pistol, it seems useful for him to also be good at melee.
Any thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/10 19:04:55
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
In any other army I’d say that would be worth the increase in his killing power, especially since he’s pretty survivable with cult loyalty, but GSC have so many good relics that given the choice I’d rather run something else.
Badablack wrote: In any other army I’d say that would be worth the increase in his killing power, especially since he’s pretty survivable with cult loyalty, but GSC have so many good relics that given the choice I’d rather run something else.
That's fair.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
That is exactly my problem, I try to focus on the worst opponent, so I should be able to face everybody... but what is the solution then?
Create an army with a specific strategy in mind AND got the skills to be flexible if needed, and buy the models for that. After that you need to practice, practice, practice. Do you act like a scalpel and cut away at an army and focus on turn 3+, or do you ram your army down their throat and lose half, and still win the day?
I prefer an army that gives the enemy nothing valuable to shoot at turn 1 or 2 meanwhile I'am cutting away at the screen and drop in turn 3.
I've been actually thinking about adding a Neurothrope + 20 devourer gaunts + 3 raveners. I would make them ymgarl and the neuro + devourers can deepstrike along with the raveners (stratagem). Neuro cast 'horror' and 20 devourers can shoot double with stratagem. Thats 120, S4 shots with reroll 1 to hit. Add a GSC psyker with croughling that cast 'mass hypnosis' and those bots got a -2 to hit (+horror).
That is exactly my problem, I try to focus on the worst opponent, so I should be able to face everybody... but what is the solution then?
Create an army with a specific strategy in mind AND got the skills to be flexible if needed, and buy the models for that. After that you need to practice, practice, practice. Do you act like a scalpel and cut away at an army and focus on turn 3+, or do you ram your army down their throat and lose half, and still win the day?
I prefer an army that gives the enemy nothing valuable to shoot at turn 1 or 2 meanwhile I'am cutting away at the screen and drop in turn 3.
I've been actually thinking about adding a Neurothrope + 20 devourer gaunts + 3 raveners. I would make them ymgarl and the neuro + devourers can deepstrike along with the raveners (stratagem). Neuro cast 'horror' and 20 devourers can shoot double with stratagem. Thats 120, S4 shots with reroll 1 to hit. Add a GSC psyker with croughling that cast 'mass hypnosis' and those bots got a -2 to hit (+horror).
You can do the same with Red Terror and save couple of points ...
That is exactly my problem, I try to focus on the worst opponent, so I should be able to face everybody... but what is the solution then?
Create an army with a specific strategy in mind AND got the skills to be flexible if needed, and buy the models for that. After that you need to practice, practice, practice. Do you act like a scalpel and cut away at an army and focus on turn 3+, or do you ram your army down their throat and lose half, and still win the day?
I prefer an army that gives the enemy nothing valuable to shoot at turn 1 or 2 meanwhile I'am cutting away at the screen and drop in turn 3.
I've been actually thinking about adding a Neurothrope + 20 devourer gaunts + 3 raveners. I would make them ymgarl and the neuro + devourers can deepstrike along with the raveners (stratagem). Neuro cast 'horror' and 20 devourers can shoot double with stratagem. Thats 120, S4 shots with reroll 1 to hit. Add a GSC psyker with croughling that cast 'mass hypnosis' and those bots got a -2 to hit (+horror).
You can do the same with Red Terror and save couple of points ...
Deploying 21 models might be a bit tight within 3 inch of a single model, but it could probably work.. Would be fun to swallow a smash captain whole.... "you look expensive and tasty!!!" "GLOEB"..
That is exactly my problem, I try to focus on the worst opponent, so I should be able to face everybody... but what is the solution then?
Create an army with a specific strategy in mind AND got the skills to be flexible if needed, and buy the models for that. After that you need to practice, practice, practice. Do you act like a scalpel and cut away at an army and focus on turn 3+, or do you ram your army down their throat and lose half, and still win the day?
I prefer an army that gives the enemy nothing valuable to shoot at turn 1 or 2 meanwhile I'am cutting away at the screen and drop in turn 3.
I've been actually thinking about adding a Neurothrope + 20 devourer gaunts + 3 raveners. I would make them ymgarl and the neuro + devourers can deepstrike along with the raveners (stratagem). Neuro cast 'horror' and 20 devourers can shoot double with stratagem. Thats 120, S4 shots with reroll 1 to hit. Add a GSC psyker with croughling that cast 'mass hypnosis' and those bots got a -2 to hit (+horror).
You can do the same with Red Terror and save couple of points ...
Deploying 21 models might be a bit tight within 3 inch of a single model, but it could probably work.. Would be fun to swallow a smash captain whole.... "you look expensive and tasty!!!" "GLOEB"..
Can't use the the Red Terror. The Jorgmundr stratagem specifies Trygon/Trygon Prime, Raveners, Mawlocks. Also, the bonus from having 20 'gaunts is re-roll 1's to wound, not to hit.
I run the devilgant drop on a regular basis. I strongly recommend the following build:
Jorgmundr Battalion
Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, Twin Boneswords
Neurothrope
Ripper x3
Ripper x3
Termagant x20+, all with Devourers
Ravener x 3, 3x Deathspitter
Raveners tunnel. Prime and 'gaunts tunnel (1CP eatch). Neurothrope can tunnel (1CP), or stay on the field. Rippers tunnel for objective grabbing, or deploy as screens/objective campers. You can throw Rending Claws on the Raveners if you have the spare six points. If your points tight you can swap the Neurothrope for a second Prime. So long as you have more than 20, the number of 'gaunts doesn't matter all that much. More is better, but there isn't anything meaningful that 30 can kill that 20 can't kill.
babelfish wrote: Can't use the the Red Terror. The Jorgmundr stratagem specifies Trygon/Trygon Prime, Raveners, Mawlocks.
Yea, red terror got the ravener keyword but the stratagem specifies the 'name of the unit' so you are probably right.
babelfish wrote: Also, the bonus from having 20 'gaunts is re-roll 1's to wound, not to hit.
Oh yea thats right..
babelfish wrote: I run the devilgant drop on a regular basis. I strongly recommend the following build:
Jorgmundr Battalion
Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, Twin Boneswords
Neurothrope
Ripper x3
Ripper x3
Termagant x20+, all with Devourers
Ravener x 3, 3x Deathspitter
Raveners tunnel. Prime and 'gaunts tunnel (1CP eatch). Neurothrope can tunnel (1CP), or stay on the field. Rippers tunnel for objective grabbing, or deploy as screens/objective campers. You can throw Rending Claws on the Raveners if you have the spare six points. If your points tight you can swap the Neurothrope for a second Prime. So long as you have more than 20, the number of 'gaunts doesn't matter all that much. More is better, but there isn't anything meaningful that 30 can kill that 20 can't kill.
But do you pair them up with the GSC drops? Or do you drop them in turn 2 and let the GSC drop turn 3 when the shield is 'devoured'? If you drop everything turn two you need to take a full round of shooting/assault from the enemy before you can assault. Then you could just as well 'lying in wait' hand flamers and 'perfect ambush' a close combat unit to remove the shield.
If you drop the tyranids turn 2 and remove the shield to make way for your GSC units turn 3, then all the tyranids get shot of the field. Thats an expensive 'shield remover'.
shogun wrote:
Turn 2. Let's say you 'perfect ambush' 20 brood brothers infantry + deep strike an acolyte rocksaw unit in cover behind the brood brothers. 20 brood brothers assault bubble wrap and tri-pod a model, and lock it. Next turn the enemy tries to shoot at the acolytes but then you cast 'lurk in the shadows'. The cannot target the unit because it's not the closest.
Keep in mind that Lurk in the Shadows requires the targeted unit be entirely within or on a piece of terrain. It can't be used otherwise.
For what it is worth I'm not sure if pure foot horde is going to be the most competitive list going forward, it just doesn't have the mobility necessary to compete against Da Jump Orks, Move! Move! Move! Guardsmen, or any flavor of Eldar. There is also the looming specter of the new Vanguard Primaris once that codex is updated and possibly the new Battlesisters. Fighting an army worth of deep strike denial is a death knell for foot hordes that rely upon ambush to get threats upfield, while sisters have traditionally been very strong at infantry killing with the volume of fire (literal and figurative) they can bring. At the very least I'd expect to see a large contingent of Jackals to offer turn-1 pressure and mobility on a semi-durable chassis.
shogun wrote:
Turn 2. Let's say you 'perfect ambush' 20 brood brothers infantry + deep strike an acolyte rocksaw unit in cover behind the brood brothers. 20 brood brothers assault bubble wrap and tri-pod a model, and lock it. Next turn the enemy tries to shoot at the acolytes but then you cast 'lurk in the shadows'. The cannot target the unit because it's not the closest.
Keep in mind that Lurk in the Shadows requires the targeted unit be entirely within or on a piece of terrain. It can't be used otherwise.
Thats why I written 'in cover'. It is just an example. A GSC army needs to play smart and see opportunities when the enemy player makes mistakes.
For what it is worth I'm not sure if pure foot horde is going to be the most competitive list going forward, it just doesn't have the mobility necessary to compete against Da Jump Orks, Move! Move! Move! Guardsmen, or any flavor of Eldar. There is also the looming specter of the new Vanguard Primaris once that codex is updated and possibly the new Battlesisters. Fighting an army worth of deep strike denial is a death knell for foot hordes that rely upon ambush to get threats upfield, while sisters have traditionally been very strong at infantry killing with the volume of fire (literal and figurative) they can bring. At the very least I'd expect to see a large contingent of Jackals to offer turn-1 pressure and mobility on a semi-durable chassis.
Yes bikes are good but you got to look at the synergy within the total army. No benefit to use bikes turn one if the rest of the army comes out of ambush turn 2/3. Then you might just as well get battle brother artillery and start shooting.
With loota's unable to 'mob up' I don't think orks are that hard to deal with. GSC are actually much more flexible at assaulting out of deep strike. But that only works if you got enough acolytes in a broodsurge detachment.
Guardsmen are good as a shield and if the enemy got 6 infantry units then it get's hard to remove them all before you can get to the juicy stuff.
Eldar tournament lists can really struggle against GSC armies but you might see a shift towards more anti-infantry shooting. 20 guardians with guide that 'forewarned' can really make a dent.
Deep strike denial and sisters anti-infantry shooting could really be difficult to deal with. But as a tournament player I got to see if these armies would do well and how likely it is to encounter them.
shogun wrote: Thats why I written 'in cover'. It is just an example. A GSC army needs to play smart and see opportunities when the enemy player makes mistakes.
Apologies, I read through the post too quickly and missed that. I've seen a lot of people who think it works like the Death Guard's Cloud of Flies, so reflexively made reference to the restriction.
Yes bikes are good but you got to look at the synergy within the total army. No benefit to use bikes turn one if the rest of the army comes out of ambush turn 2/3. Then you might just as well get battle brother artillery and start shooting.
Right. I'm mostly thinking of Jackals to offer board control. GSC infantry are relatively slow and cumbersome, so having Jackals allows the GSC player to apply early pressure to objectives or isolated enemy troops that are being used to push back deep strike space (Scouts come to mind). Towards the late game they can be sent off after distant objectives while the rest of the infantry focus on the midfield.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/14 14:51:29
babelfish wrote: Can't use the the Red Terror. The Jorgmundr stratagem specifies Trygon/Trygon Prime, Raveners, Mawlocks.
Yea, red terror got the ravener keyword but the stratagem specifies the 'name of the unit' so you are probably right.
babelfish wrote: Also, the bonus from having 20 'gaunts is re-roll 1's to wound, not to hit.
Oh yea thats right..
babelfish wrote: I run the devilgant drop on a regular basis. I strongly recommend the following build:
Jorgmundr Battalion
Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, Twin Boneswords
Neurothrope
Ripper x3
Ripper x3
Termagant x20+, all with Devourers
Ravener x 3, 3x Deathspitter
Raveners tunnel. Prime and 'gaunts tunnel (1CP eatch). Neurothrope can tunnel (1CP), or stay on the field. Rippers tunnel for objective grabbing, or deploy as screens/objective campers. You can throw Rending Claws on the Raveners if you have the spare six points. If your points tight you can swap the Neurothrope for a second Prime. So long as you have more than 20, the number of 'gaunts doesn't matter all that much. More is better, but there isn't anything meaningful that 30 can kill that 20 can't kill.
But do you pair them up with the GSC drops? Or do you drop them in turn 2 and let the GSC drop turn 3 when the shield is 'devoured'? If you drop everything turn two you need to take a full round of shooting/assault from the enemy before you can assault. Then you could just as well 'lying in wait' hand flamers and 'perfect ambush' a close combat unit to remove the shield.
If you drop the tyranids turn 2 and remove the shield to make way for your GSC units turn 3, then all the tyranids get shot of the field. Thats an expensive 'shield remover'.
Basically, yes. I was running kraken Genestealers + Hive Guard and devilgaunt, and I pretty much just swapped the Kraken for GSC.
Turn 1 I shoot Hive Guard at things. Turn two I drop the gaunts. Turn 3 I drop saw Hybrids and Aberants. If I get a chance for a turn 2 drop I'll take it.
The upside to the gaunts is they have great range-18" droppsz midfield can touch a lot of things. Between that, the double tap, and the 24" guns on the Raveners + Prime, the drop can clear a lot of infantry. If you run a larger squad they are also reasonably durable - 30 T3 5+ fearless bodies takes some work to clear.
The downside is that they are expensive and take a big investment to run them.
babelfish wrote: Can't use the the Red Terror. The Jorgmundr stratagem specifies Trygon/Trygon Prime, Raveners, Mawlocks.
Yea, red terror got the ravener keyword but the stratagem specifies the 'name of the unit' so you are probably right.
babelfish wrote: Also, the bonus from having 20 'gaunts is re-roll 1's to wound, not to hit.
Oh yea thats right..
babelfish wrote: I run the devilgant drop on a regular basis. I strongly recommend the following build:
Jorgmundr Battalion
Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, Twin Boneswords
Neurothrope
Ripper x3
Ripper x3
Termagant x20+, all with Devourers
Ravener x 3, 3x Deathspitter
Raveners tunnel. Prime and 'gaunts tunnel (1CP eatch). Neurothrope can tunnel (1CP), or stay on the field. Rippers tunnel for objective grabbing, or deploy as screens/objective campers. You can throw Rending Claws on the Raveners if you have the spare six points. If your points tight you can swap the Neurothrope for a second Prime. So long as you have more than 20, the number of 'gaunts doesn't matter all that much. More is better, but there isn't anything meaningful that 30 can kill that 20 can't kill.
But do you pair them up with the GSC drops? Or do you drop them in turn 2 and let the GSC drop turn 3 when the shield is 'devoured'? If you drop everything turn two you need to take a full round of shooting/assault from the enemy before you can assault. Then you could just as well 'lying in wait' hand flamers and 'perfect ambush' a close combat unit to remove the shield.
If you drop the tyranids turn 2 and remove the shield to make way for your GSC units turn 3, then all the tyranids get shot of the field. Thats an expensive 'shield remover'.
Basically, yes. I was running kraken Genestealers + Hive Guard and devilgaunt, and I pretty much just swapped the Kraken for GSC.
Turn 1 I shoot Hive Guard at things. Turn two I drop the gaunts. Turn 3 I drop saw Hybrids and Aberants. If I get a chance for a turn 2 drop I'll take it.
The upside to the gaunts is they have great range-18" droppsz midfield can touch a lot of things. Between that, the double tap, and the 24" guns on the Raveners + Prime, the drop can clear a lot of infantry. If you run a larger squad they are also reasonably durable - 30 T3 5+ fearless bodies takes some work to clear.
The downside is that they are expensive and take a big investment to run them.
To many points for me, besides you cannot fire twice with the devourers AND Hive-guard at the same time. I would not run a prime but rather a neurothrope or even broodlord. I would probably pick two neurothropes with horror plus catalyst for the gaunts.
Also would be cool to drop in with 3 broodlords + 2 patriarchs and summon another patriarch. Protect them with gaunts/brood brothers and charge next turn. Just simply surround them with cheap infantry and keep them save. Not a game changer but could be fun and surprisingly good against certain type of lists.
Something else, I've been practising with screen removal and also got the following strategy;
It is actually pretty easy to 'tri-pod' an enemy unit with a GSC perfect ambush and I'am trying the following;
Second turn drop in 20 (cult of the 4 armed emperor) acolytes with 2 demolition charge. 2 demolition charge-models deploy at the side, at the point where you want to get behind the unit at the flank. If this is not possible because their other units in the way then shoot them to create a hole. Perfect ambush towards the enemy unit bubblewrap and use reroll if you roll a 1 or 2 and try to get close. Assault (also with reroll if needed) and try to get behind the enemy unit and put 1 demolition charge model within 1 inch at the back (not base to base) The rest of the acolytes stay outside 1 inch but surround the enemy unit at his flank. Pile in with the demolition model and tie up an enemy model in base to base and only let one other demolition model be within 1 inch of him and the rest stay's outside 1 inch. Two demolition models hit with 2 attacks each but no rending claws or cult knives so the just hit with S4 and maybe kill only 2 models. Then every acolyte model piles in and traps at least 3 remaining enemy models and that makes it impossible to run away after morale. Acolytes then kill all enemy models in the enemies turn.
Third turn: 20 acolytes with handflamers deploy first with 'lying in wait' and use 'perfect ambush' to kill the remaining shield and after that you drop in the rest of the broodsurge units and try to get to the juicy stuff. Clamavus + cult of the 4 armed emperor + broodsurge WLT reroll assault should hurt.
verkill, 2 boxes of guardsmen, 1 heavy weapons teams box and a box of acolytes.
