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This little debate has cropped up on several forums and I wanted to get some feedback from the bug players on here on what they think. Here is the original post on another forum.

http://www.adeptuswindycity.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=16596898&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Discuss.

Capt K

 

I've read the argument and I still don't see any basis for not allowing Spore Mines to be placed over enemy models.

Just so we're all on the same page, the two FAQ questions are:

"Q: If a Spore Mines Cluster deep strikes and lands on an enemy unit or impassable terrain, is it destroyed or does it detonate?

A: It detonates -- resolve the barrage exactly the same way as you would for a cluster fired in the shooting phase."

and:

"Q: If my Biovores fire a Spore Mines Cluster on an enemy model and score a hit, the rules say that I should resolve the explosion at the end of the phase. How does this work?

A: If the cluster lands on an enemy model it detonates immediately, as it would be awkward to have to hold the models on top of each other. In any other case, the cluster explodes at the end of the relevant phase."

From what I can tell from that thread the counter-argument for not allowing clusters to be placed over enemy models is this:

1) Deep Striking models have to be placed anywhere on the table.

2) Models are not allowed to stack onto each other.

 

The problem with argument #1 is that the term "anywhere on the table" can just as easily mean "any point in the gaming area" as it can mean "on the actual table surface."

And if someone tries to claim that they're really talking about the table "surface" what about terrain features? Does a building count as part of the "table"? If so, who makes that distinction (certainly not the rulebook)?

 

The problem with argument #2 is that there is no such restriction in the rules. There is a general movement restriction (page 15) of models not being able to move intro/through the space occupied by a friendly model or within 1" of an enemy model.

However, Spore Mines have an exemption in the Tyranid codex that allows them to move within 1" of enemy models.

In the linked thread, some try to argue that this restriction about "not stacking" models applies to deep strikers, while at the same time they want to ignore the Spore Mine's exemption allowing it to move within 1" of enemy models.

In other words, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too.

If the restriction about being within 1" of enemy models (a movement restriction) is in effect during Deep Strike, then the Spore Mine's exemption to that rule is also in effect.

 

In short, I believe that Deep Striking Spore Mines may be placed on top of enemy models and if they don't deviate they immediately explode.

 

 

I agree. Nothing in the rules seem to indicate otherwise.

Capt K

Yak - I believe you play Nidz and your bias is showing here. No offense intended.

- Greenie

Wait a minute. Now you're claiming bias even though he has illustrated a well thought out argument that seems pretty ironclad? He has pointed out the exact same thing I have pointed out...just better organized and you think it's biased? Come on Greenie, you know that it isn't about bias. It's about what the rules say and how the two interact. Again, nothing in the rules for DS and Spores seems to indicate that they can't be placed over an enemy unit. While that may not sit well with you, there isn't anything in either of those rules that is murky or unclear.

Capt K

If you are familiar with the rules written by Forgeworld then you know they are not exactly the same as Games Workshop. This is your first error.

- Greenie

I suggest this thread gets locked. This is a hot debate and I would rather just let the Adepticon FAQ team look at this issue with some reason and looking into game balance as well as the spirit of the game. Any desicion they make is good by me and I will adhere to those rules.

To the Adepticon FAQ team: I know you guys have a very difficult time trying to make this event as fair as possiable and I understand since I have ran a few competitions and I fully support any ruling you guys make even if its against my wishes.

Posted By Green Bloater on 02/02/2007 8:20 AM
If you are familiar with the rules written by Forgeworld then you know they are not exactly the same as Games Workshop. This is your first error.

- Greenie

Actually, I was arguing the point for standard spore mines, with Meiotic's falling in the same boat.


And I may be biased, but honestly I don't really care whether I can place my Meiotic mine over a model or not. I could live with the ruling either way from a gameplay standpoint.

Posted By thehod on 02/02/2007 9:00 AM
I suggest this thread gets locked. This is a hot debate

LOL 7 (now 8) posts. BLAZIN hot.

Lordhat:

he's talking about on other forums.

Ok, may be very biased (playing with a lot of deepstriking Spore Mines), but the rules seem to strongly indicate that deepstruck Sporemines can directly explode and so target enemy units.

The other very interesting question is, which armor is hit, if the spore mine lands on a vehicle...where are the lines ( for front,side,rear) exactly drawn?

Greets
Schepp himself

My two cents? If the spore mine lands on top of an enemy (or a friendly, of course) model it simply vanishes. This is because all other models which deepstrike on top of enemy models simply vanish, with no game effects The quickest example I can think of is a DE Raider with Screaming jets - if it lands on top of enemy, my understanding is that is simply vanishes - no wreckage, no pen 6 detonation affecting all within d6 inches, no disembarkation of the embarks squad within 2 inches. Just gone. Similar example may be a necron monolith landing in impassible terrain, but I'm not so sure on that example.

is there a rule which makes deepstriking spores different?

Yup, there is such a rule. Yak quoted it a few posts ago. Here it is again:

"Q: If a Spore Mines Cluster deep strikes and lands on an enemy unit or impassable terrain, is it destroyed or does it detonate?
A: It detonates -- resolve the barrage exactly the same way as you would for a cluster fired in the shooting phase."

As for vehicles, we always ruled that spore mines strike the armour which faces the deployment zone of the spore-mine-owning-player. I think we pulled that from some off-board bombardment or preliminary barrage rule somewhere.