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Edit: New list at the bottom.

I've been thinking about changing things up from my straight Chaos armies, and I have a few IG parts laying around, so I think I'll give LatD a try. Here's the list I'm considering for a strong all-comers list.

HQ:

Daemon Prince: Mark of Chaos Undivided, 2 CCWs, Frag Grenades, Spiky Bits, Daemonic: Aura, Essence, Mutation, Resilience, Speed, Strength, Stature.  173 points.

Just your run of the mill DP, very similar to what I normally run, he kills stuff.

2 Aspiring Champions: Mark of Tzeentch, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Gift of Chaos, Daemonic Speed.  87 points each.

These guys will each lead a mutant group, hopefully giving them a little punch once they get into combat, as well as leadership. In addition, I'm thinking Gift will give the relatively fragile leaping mutants more survivability in combat by targetting threats and adding numbers with the spawns; the downside being they'll lose speed once I start using Gift.

Elite:

2 Obliterators.  140 points.

Of course the obligatory Oblits.

8 Daemonettes.  120 points.

8 Daemonettes.  120 points.

And some obligatory daemonettes.


Troops:

15 Mutants: Leaping; Flamer (x2).  186 points.

15 Mutants: Leaping; Flamer (x2).  186 points.

I guess these guys are the bulk of my force, which to be honest, leaves me a little worried. As I said before, I'm hoping they'll synergize well with the Aspiring Champions, but I can't shake the feeling that they're just too weak to be my ROF troops.

6 Chaos Space Marines: Plasma Gun, Lascannon.  109 points.

Duh, I had an extra troops slot.

6 Traitors: Autocannon. 63 points.

6 Traitors: Autocannon. 63 points.

6 Traitors: Plasma Gun, Lascannon. 78 points.

Cheap guns, and of course they let me take...

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter, Searchlight.  146 points.

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter, Searchlight.  146 points.

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter, Searchlight.  146 points.

The big guns.

Posted By Deus Ex Machina on 03/23/2007 9:26 PM

15 Mutants: Leaping; Flamer (x2).  186 points.

I guess these guys are the bulk of my force, which to be honest, leaves me a little worried. As I said before, I'm hoping they'll synergize well with the Aspiring Champions, but I can't shake the feeling that they're just too weak to be my ROF troops.

This is a legitimate concern.  A lot of this list looks killy, but fragile.  The mutants in particular will have to be surging forward, braving incoming firepower, and plowing into enemy units in order to be effective.  Which will be effective, more often than not, but will mean that they rarely survive entire battles. 

The same will hold true of the daemonettes: they'll likely kill stuff, but then die.  In general terms, I see this army being lethal to both opponents and yourself.  Your tactics are likely to cede over significant v.p.s to your opponents.

I'd consider making one of the mobs bloated rather than leaping, and using the points you get back to swell its numbers.  That'll make it much harder to send off the table.

You might also want to consider swapping out one of the Russ's for either

a) some indirect fire (basilisk or defiler), or

b) a good-sized unit of chaos spawn -- a unit that costs few points and that, like a big bloated mutant mob, will absorb a lot of damage.

Thanks for the reply tinfoil. I think that's a pretty good summary of the list, it does strike me as very fragile, but I'm not sure there's any way around that without making it a really slow list. It seems like it would be a nice change of pace from MEQs, and I have some neat modeling ideas for the mutants/DP (centaurs anyone?).

I don't like the bloated mutant idea, I'm afraid with the two mobs being different speeds it would be much easier for my opponent to prioritize targets. As for the Russ, I originally had a Basilisk in the place of the third Russ, but I've been wanting to run a guard army with a wall of AV14 armor for a while and I'm going to see if I can live without the indirect. I forsee that  I'll eventually give up and put the Bassie back in.

I guess my only concern now is that unless I pay the points for some icons on the mutants, the only unit that can summon the Daemonettes is the DP. I don't have any prior experience with Daemons, but I'm guessing that having more than one icon is a good idea. I guess I'll probably either swap the Flamers for icons or drop the Searchlights and Essence or Mutation off the DP for 3 icons in each group.

Posted By Deus Ex Machina on 03/26/2007 10:49 PM

I guess my only concern now is that unless I pay the points for some icons on the mutants, the only unit that can summon the Daemonettes is the DP. I don't have any prior experience with Daemons, but I'm guessing that having more than one icon is a good idea. I guess I'll probably either swap the Flamers for icons or drop the Searchlights and Essence or Mutation off the DP for 3 icons in each group.

Woops, didn't even catch the lack of icons.  Yep, relying on the Demon Prince as your only summoning point is asking for trouble.  Particularly since he will be independently targettable (being a monstrous creature), and since the deamonettes are relatively slow and fragile once summoned, making them susceptible to unfortunate scattering roles.  You'll want a dispersal of potential summoning points as a way of further expanding your effective mobility.

Three icons per mob strikes me as excessive, though.  I do fine with 2 per mob.

 

Interesting; this list isn't too far off of mine.  Sorta.

I'd recommend the Mark of Chaos Undivided for the AC's; re-rolling leadership 10 is absolutely wonderful for keeping your guys in combat.  The Wind of Chaos is kind of a waste; buy a mutant boss with a powerfist, and give the AC daemonic mutation.  This will give you 10 powerfist attacks on the charge, half at STR8 and half at STR6.  Vicious!  Also, the flamers will never be used; you should be fleet of footing each round (even if you're close; you can optimize your charge that way).

Consider dropping the plasma gun and putting icons on the traitor squads.  You can infiltrate them and get some daemonettes up front early on.

Just some ideas.

Changing the mark of the aspiring champions to Undivided is a good idea as stated for the ability to reroll leadership tests. My two aspiring champions also have Mark of Tzneetch and I give them Wind of Chaos and the two mutant packs they join also have speed as well plus the two flamers per pack. The flamers are not that expensive and count as an assault weapon... so you can lay down three templates before charging in. If you need to fleet it is not much of a loss not to be able to shoot, but I have found that most often I do not need the fleet the turn they charge since they can charge up to 12 inches. Three templates is very helpful against hard stuff such as terminators and it is always nice to be able to flame a big unit such as gaunts. I also agree you should include a mutant boss in each pack with a powerfist. You will be able to quickly cut down Tyranid monsterous creatures, dreadnaughts, wraithlords and possibly even C'Tan. I would drop one Leman Russ for the extra points as two should be good enough. And yes the traitor squads should have icons so you can infiltrate them and summons your deamons close to the enemy.

- Greenie

Great feedback guys, thanks. I will definately be switching over to Undivided on the Champions, I'm seeing now that Gift (and even Wind) probably wouldn't work too well with Speed on the unit.

I also like the Mutant Boss idea, and I'm going to try and add those and the icons without cutting a Russ if possible. Iorek, you make a good point about the Flamers not being used, but even if they're used once I'm guessing they'll make their points back. Having Speed gives the mutants the advantage of not being able to clear out the charge zone with a lucky shot.  Then again, I'm already going to be strapped for points, but I'll see what I come up with once I'm off work.

Thanks again all!

HQ:

Daemon Prince: Mark of Chaos Undivided, 2 CCWs, Frag Grenades, Daemonic: Aura, Essence, Mutation, Resilience, Speed, Strength, Stature.  163 points.

2 Aspiring Champions: Mark of Chaos Undivided, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, Daemonic: Mutation, Speed.  92 points each.

Elites:

2 Obliterators.  140 points.

6 Daemonettes.  90 points.

6 Daemonettes.  90 points.

Troops:

15 Mutants: Leaping; Flamer (x2), Icon (x2). Mutant Boss: Power Fist.  217 points.

15 Mutants: Leaping; Flamer (x2), Icon (x2). Mutant Boss: Power Fist.  217 points.

6 Chaos Space Marines: Plasma Gun, Lascannon.  109 points.

6 Traitors: Icon, Autocannon. 68 points.

6 Traitors: Icon, Autocannon. 68 points.

6 Traitors: Lascannon. 68 points.

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter, Searchlight.  146 points.

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter.  145 points.

Leman Russ: Heavy Bolter.  145 points.

Okay, I ended up dropping 4 of the Daemonettes to make the changes, but I think it's probably a fair trade.  Otherwise I'll probably just fiddle with the special weapons in the future, but I like this list, I think it's a solid prototype.