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while trying to cut points for my 1750 eldar list, i noticed a few things.

1. the banshee exarch is way too expensive for what she does, which leads me to question her 48 points. her abilities seem subpar compared to the other exarchs.

2. the fire dragon exarch does exactly what a regular fire dragon does, only slightly better. a 6 fire dragon unit costs 96 points, i would have no problem dropping them with the falcon on top of a land raider and leaving them to their fate the following turns.

3. the dire avenger exarch is broken. it is very amazing. 2 full units with wave serpents seems like musts for any mechanized lists. their sheer amount of fire power is diguesting. with guide and doom, they can whip out the largest ork or nid hordes and substantialy hurt any heavy armored marines or  what not in one shooting phase. QUESTION about defend though, if i charge a unit whose individual models only have one attack, do they get none at all?

What do you think?

Posted By Taoofss on 04/05/2007 10:45 PM
while trying to cut points for my 1750 eldar list, i noticed a few things.

1. the banshee exarch is way too expensive for what she does, which leads me to question her 48 points. her abilities seem subpar compared to the other exarchs.

2. the fire dragon exarch does exactly what a regular fire dragon does, only slightly better. a 6 fire dragon unit costs 96 points, i would have no problem dropping them with the falcon on top of a land raider and leaving them to their fate the following turns.

3. the dire avenger exarch is broken. it is very amazing. 2 full units with wave serpents seems like musts for any mechanized lists. their sheer amount of fire power is diguesting. with guide and doom, they can whip out the largest ork or nid hordes and substantialy hurt any heavy armored marines or  what not in one shooting phase. QUESTION about defend though, if i charge a unit whose individual models only have one attack, do they get none at all?

What do you think?

1) Agree.  Compare her abilities to the Scorpians Exarch (Infiltration)....
2) Absolutely.  The only possibility is using the Dragon's Breath if facing hordes, but I still don't think I could justify the added cost for the marginal benefit.
3) Yeah - haven't tried them yet, but they sound good.  Minimum of 1 attack - sorry.  Otherwise it would be too good.

I like the Banshee exarch, I pay for S5 and that makes a huge difference. Its a bit like a vet sgt, you pay much more but get much more. It doesn't seem so much as you get power weapons anyway.
A naked Banshee exarch works too, 16pts for one attack and extra 12pts for two. I would rather pay 4pts for an extra body and charge attack. But once you have filled your transport its a deal on the side. The triskele is the best value with equivalent to six armour negating attacks on the charge and it costs less than the Executioner. I would taken it had I not already got my Exarch, but I have no reason tom swap I am happy with her as she is.

Nope, you get a very good deal on Banshee exarchs so long as you dont waste money on mirrorswords. Mirrorswords give you the close combat ability of two Banshees at the cost of an extra 6pts, and you get to lose the extra wound and both pistols in the bargain. No thankyou.

Fire Dragon exarchs are the ones I wouldn't take. Bit more accurate with your fusion gun, but that sdoesnt justify 12pts. Dragon's breath flamer is a joke as it dilutes the purpose of the unit, and if you get that close to flamerr targets your dead anyway.
Firepikes look good, but it prevents the unit from fleeting. Crack shot and tank hunter are both unnecessary, Fire Dragons are either overkill or cant hurt their target at all. Neither skill changes anything.

I dont have Dire Avengers, and i dont like their style. The exarch uses some messy and ill thought out rules. Though admittedly is powerful.

As for the rest:
Striking Scorpion - Infiltrate and Scorpion claw yes please. I can even go with just the claw upgrade. ouldnt touch the other weapon options though.

Shining Spear - Withdraw is essential, starlance is good, but not that necessary. You need withdraw because Spears need the charge more than any other unit in your army. Meanwhile with so much S6 you shouldnt be fighting opponents that require S8, nice against tanks though.
Always take Withdraw, starlance can be sacrificed but is nice to have.

Warp Spider - I hate them. If taken I would avoid close combat with them, they are S6 shooting, but get no advantages in melee. So no Withdraw, and no Powerblades. Spinneret rifles adds no extra firepower, just some reliability. I would save on an exarch here.

Swooping Hawks - The perfect exarch delivery system, right up until they remove Web of Skulls. Now mine 'counts as' a Sunrifle. The unit is basically shooty, an exarch has triple firepower. Its a bargain, unlike Swooping Hawks themselves. Yes do take an exarch if you do take Hawks. As for the skills. No Skyleap as repeated Deepstrikes are not the answer, the template isnt worth that much and you will lose your shooting for several turns at random. Intercept is better as Hawks have a decent anti-armour role. Its a good relable way of getting enough glancing hits on enemy skimmers for a good chance to take them down.

Dark Reapers - Dont take them often post screening rules removal. The Exarch is worthwhile for Bs5, but none of the gun upgrades are. You have a good gun and solid role with Reaper launcher, Crackshot makes you nastier and is worthwhile. The missile launcher is unnecessary, as is the Tempest. Both appear useful but get in the way of the capabilities of the squad. You can afford to sacrifice most squad firepower to concentrate on the target of the heavy weapon, ita a standard tactic in the game. The ten wound lascannon et al. But you cant afford that attitude with Dark Reapers, if its not a target for Reaper Launchers, its not a target for the squad.
Take an exarch with Crackshot or no exarch at all.If short for points this is my first saving.

All in all, my preferences:
Exarchs for Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions, Swooping Hawks, Dire Avengers and Shining Spears.
No exarch for Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers and Fire Dragons.

Counter-opinions to things other posters have said (I agree with most of it).

The one time to take mirrorswords is if you have 6 banshees riding in a falcon and you want to max out attacks but don't have space for any more bodies.

The role of Defend power is to hold up units that have 2 base attacks, like terminators, assault marines, even genestealers. I've sent my Defend DA's against terminators, and the termies kill like 2 or 3 models. Genestealers will get the first attack, but if you charge them, they only get 1 attack each, so that's a lot fewer rending hits usually. Especially if you shoot them first.

If you look at the reaper exarch as an expensive addition to an anti-marine squad, then he's not worth it. But if you look at him as a 42 point BS5, 2-shot missile launcher, then he looks like a bargain. He's the best quality missile launcher that an Eldar army can get. I've used both versions of the reaper exarch, and the reaper launcher/crack shot guy is cheap, but his role is much more limited. If there's nothing there to shoot at except AR12+ tanks (as often happens versus mech armies), then he's wasted points.

"The triskele is the best value with equivalent to six armour negating attacks on the charge and it costs less than the Executioner."

If you are talking about shooting before chargin, the entire squad loses the +1a from charging. in a squad of 10 w/exarch, on the charge its 31 power attacks with the exarch. if they stoped and shot, its 24 including the shooting, armor ignore, only sometimes whacks in. so the squad gets less hits in.

squad of 10 banshees gets 30 attacks in on the charge
squad of 9 banshees with exarch w/ triskele gets 31 in on the charge for 40+ points more.
squad of 9 banshees with exarch w/ executioner gets 30 attacks on the charge but 3 attacks at str 5 for 45+ points.

points seem very steep to me for so little in return. i guess you can ignore her powers, but for 10 points, seems like waste to not get them. i would think about taking the executioner as it allows the squad to deal with marines better. but with a seer casting doom, and supported by shinning spears, i just dont see the need for that. i agree on your acessment on the rest of the exarchs.

This is a 3rd edition rule. In 4th edition you don't lose an attack for shooting anymore; you get all your attacks regardless.

In a past post in was almost unanimous that the B-shee was the most useless exarch. DA seems to be the best by far and the Scorp is great if infiltrate is allowed.

Posted By Orlanth on 04/06/2007 2:09 AM

Shining Spear - Withdraw is essential, starlance is good, but not that necessary. You need withdraw because Spears need the charge more than any other unit in your army. Meanwhile with so much S6 you shouldnt be fighting opponents that require S8, nice against tanks though.
Always take Withdraw, starlance can be sacrificed but is nice to have.

Agreed, but I would add that Skilled Rider is also useful.  The boards I play tend to have plenty of cover, and I seem to roll 1's on my Dangerous Terrain checks during the most critical charges.  I would probably take it before I took a Starlance.

Warpspider exarch with dual spiners is 4 bs 5 shots for less than the cost of 2 warp spiders.

Withdraw lets you charge a squad to hide from shooting for a round and then bounce out 3d6 inches and move 12" on your next turn to a totally different part of the board.

Potentially, 6" charge, 6" pile in, 18" hit & run, 12" move 52" displacement.

if you plan on doing this, than why not give the exarch power weapons? jump, shoot, assault, stay stuck, 2nd assault phase, jump out. this way you can kill a few more marines during the assault. also this is a great way prevent those dev squads from shooting.

I do give him powerblades, but I wouldn't consider those essential. 4 str 3 power weapon attacks on the charge really isn't impressive.  Sometimes you even want them off to kill less so they don't run and leave you stranded.

The tactical options having withdraw gives is well worth the points, and 5 points for 2 str 6 bs 5 shots is totally worth it.

Posted By Orlanth on 04/06/2007 2:09 AM
Shining Spear - Withdraw is essential, starlance is good, but not that necessary. You need withdraw because Spears need the charge more than any other unit in your army. Meanwhile with so much S6 you shouldnt be fighting opponents that require S8, nice against tanks though.
Always take Withdraw, starlance can be sacrificed but is nice to have.

Starlance is essential for 2 things-

1) It is strength 8...The magic instakill a marine number

2) It turns the Spears into tankhunters.  Don't forget lances can shoot and they have the lance special rule.  Strength 8 against a max AV of 12 is useful.

 

Who I wouldn't take an Exarch with:  Banshees, Firedragons, Reapers.

Dire Avengers Exarch increadibly multiplies the power of the squad.  Honestly, I wish GW would use mechanics like this elsewhere to make not min/maxing a squad a good thing.

Scorpions gives a fist.  'nuff said.

Spears gives the hit and run.  Essential, plus the strength 8.

Hawks gives skyleap and intercept.  Skyleap is a variant of hit and run if your hawks get charged.  Plus allows great objective-holding ability.

Spiders-Hit and run again.  You don't want your spiders stuck in hth.

 

A Dark Reaper Exarch is worth equping with a fast shot eldar missile launcher. You get two attempts to pen a rhino/chimera and force the squad to disembark, and then the rest of the squad shoots the unit. My list is somewhat short on anti-tank firepower, so its worth it for the upgrade.

Shining spears also require an exarch with withdraw. Star lance is optional, but is nasty against ICs and Tanks. Scorpion Exarchs only have the claw as a viable option. Perhaps if chain blades kept them at Str 4, or the biting blade with 4 attacks instead of 3, but the bonuses don't really make up for the loss of the power fist IMHO.

Warp Spiders can be very good, if used correctly. 22 S6 shots gives any unit pause, and can bust the sides of most transports. An Exarch with withdraw lets you keep them mobile and escape from combat if they get caught. Dual spinners is all that you will ever need unless you want to take on big nids.

Can't do this--unless you mean the reapers shoot the disembarked squad *the following turn.* Everybody in the squad has to shoot at the same target, so if the exarch shoots at a rhino, everybody else has to shoot the rhino too.

This is the complaint that people have about the reaper exarch--that since everybody has to shoot the same target, the squad's shots are wasted when you shoot vehicles of AR12+