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what is everyones opinions on the difference  between WM and 40k players? Some of them will be the same players of course. It seems to me that WM is "funner" and thus players are "cooler" not like that other game of  "in your face I win!"

It's like every other game in existance, it's all about who you play.

I play Warmachine and 40k... and I'm a total knob.

WM players tend to roll fewer dice....

About the only consistent difference I have seen is that the WM culture tends to whine less about cheese in general (although there are exceptions- *female dog*ing about pre-Remix Sorscha was pretty constant) and slightly less paint nazism.Probably due to SR allowing unpainted minis (unless the TO says otherwise, of course).

Practically, many WM players also play 40K, so.....

Yea, gotta second that it's the people not the game...

I think there is a little less cries of "cheese!" however, as jmurph says, mostly because I think people all have combos that can be pretty nasty, so when one hits you, you just rationalize it in your mind as "well, I've got nasty combos too, so ah well."

It's the players.

However, WM/Hordes follows the brutal M:tG play style: opening moves are scripted, tech syngery with various pieces, and specific foils to use in the meta-game. The game is built on "beat-down", but there are always those who turn their noses up to various builds, those who advocate pg5, and those who play to drop elbows - similar to the GW environment. However, unlike the GW environment there are less "different ways to do it" (i.e., paint, model, game, fluff, crush, etc).

What's "drop elbows"? Is that WWF reference?

The main thing I've noticed about player attitudes is that most player are happy with Privateer and there games. I think that translates into players that are happier to play the game and less likely to be sour. I can't say the same about 40K, most people who play tend to focus on the negatives and the fun they have seems to be harder to milk out of the game. Most people I know that play 40K are there for the pretty figures or because they have already invested a large amount of time and/or money into the game.

I think WM players are generally better sports. Generally - I remember one kid who was a total wad with his Sorscha list. I don't think WM attracts a more sporting crowd, I think the sense that everything is broken to some degree, sportsmanship isn't (typically) scored, and there's no requirement for painted minis in SR all tend to encourage better sportsmanship. I think the game is open to a larger crowd since there is no painting required, there's no chipmunking that can occur, and less cries of cheese. I also think many of the older players have gravitated towards WM (and FoW too) and they're a more laid-back crowd usually. It also seems like there is less bragging that goes on.

I think part of it is that WM is still in a honeymoon period. There are several factors contributing to happy players:

1. It?s a small company, so there is less entrenched bureaucracy and faster response time.
2. The guys running it are all gamers who are still passionate about the hobby.
3. The guys running it have the example of the bigger older companies to build from and try to improve on.
4. It?s a well-written system, and they respond quickly to questions.
5. It?s a fairly new system, that HASN?T had any major systemic revisions, and thus there are (virtually) no disenchanted older players whose vision of the game is now outdated.


I don?t see particularly better Sportsmanship in one game or the other. But PP has established a clear expectation that full-contact competition is the default setting. Combine that with a (relatively) short setup and playing time, so you can often get an immediate ?revenge? game if you get smoked, and people are less likely to be bitter about a one-sided game.

I kinda get sick of people using the current game they play as some kind of personal statment.

I really don't care what game who plays, as long as you have fun and are not a jerk to your opponent, its all good.

I can show anyone examples of good and bad in any game system. The one thing you notice is the people who are jerks in 40K are jerks while playing PP games. This just means the bigger any game system gets, the more jerks it will sprout.

/truthiness

WM in general is a much tighter set of rules, with fewer conflicting rules.  This however is exepcted since it dosen't have 20+ diffrent armies and has not had at least 3 major overhauls and 2 minor ones. WM has had what could be called one minor overhaul but really it was just putting corrected stuff into an outdated rule book.

I do feel however that as time goes on and more models and rules get released the rule set will seem less tight and will have the number of incosistancies increase. I also feel privateer press is also better at spinning mistakes they make in the rules.  Who honestly thinks they intended boundless charge or iron flesh to be used as offence spells, or that iron fangs with attachment use could move 18inchs. Howbout  the high reclaimer bringback a cav model at 8 or 10 hp, or a trencher chain gun reloading a grenadier. I could go on but  PP lets alot of there opps moments slide or pass them off as intended. The whole in your face, combo thing WM is based on lets them do this. Now don't get me wrong the other half of this coin is the fact that they do fix major issues quick, jack surfng comes to mind, and they answer questions in a quick and timly manner.

What all of this leads to though is people argueing less over rules, people know what to expect and games go quicker. This leads to ( i feel) better sportsmanship in the overall game enviroment. The other thing is PP don't try to dictate army design to the players, which is why there is no comp score  the lists are relativly balance with only a few bad options in each one (necro tech,winterguard on there own, mechanics,). GW would do them selves alot of favors as far as PR goes if they dropped comp all togther and let people play the list how they want to. now i don't mean drop the FOC but if someone wants to take 3 wraithlord, or 3 basalisks, or 3 terminator squads they should be able too. GW at present is actually going to oposite direction with the combat squads. GW makes two types of people who play 40K, fluffheads and Tournie players. They are don't get along and cause alot of the "bad sportsmanship" that people talk about In PP games  they are one and the same.

PP seems to gravitate towards a card game attitude. It is basically a card game in miniatures form as it relies more on the tactics of getting your feat off and getting a devastating combo off than the tactics of actual wargaming.

PP itself is just starting to leave the honeymoon phase, than being still in it. They are starting to do GW style things like only being able to play in certain things if you buy their No Quarter magazine, silly priced models, and an ego in management to go with everything. I think they seriously believe that no one sculpts better than them and they price that to go with thier perceived ability. They do sculpt some incredible pieces but they are far from the best in the industry.

The difference between GW and PP players, I think is just that the majority of the players reflect the attitude of the game. GW players in the two areas I have lived are a bit more laid back (you have the cheese mongers and rules lawyers that any other game has including PP), where PP players are more cutthroat and intense because they need to unleash that game-winning combo.

thats my observations and two cents worth

Posted By 2.0 on 07/14/2007 12:38 PM

only being able to play in certain things if you buy their No Quarter magazine, silly priced models, and an ego in management to go with everything. I think they seriously believe that no one sculpts better than them and they price that to go with thier perceived ability.

Sorry, the No Quarter statement doesn't fly. Models come with the rules on
the cards and all rules printed in No Quarter appear in a future book release.
The summer rampage league had me worried, but then they released a
pdf.

Also, I don't think they have the best sculpts in the industry. They're following
the luxury miniatures market that GW createed, except they do one thing that's
really different. Models cost their weight, not their points value. This really screws
things up for their cavalry, where you're paying 15 bucks for a single model on
a horse, but that thing has as much pewter as a warjack, I'm guessing (this is
just from looking at the miniatures). If you followed the GW template for pricing
the models, the warcasters and leaders would cost 10-15 dollars more than
a regular blister. Dartan Vilmon, everyone's favorite Protectorate of Menoth
solo, would cost 20 bucks since he affects the game so much. By contrast, I
bought a psycannon blister of Grey Knights and paid 10 bucks for the honor.

Where are you getting the ego in management thing? They had ego coming
out of the starting gate, but not sure what exactly you mean about newfound
ego in management.

never said anything about a newfound ego, I stated that they have an ego. And at times it's overbearing. When people including myself complained about the cavalry prices, they mentioned that it was partially the weight, and partially the superior sculpting. Sorry, but i'm not paying a premium because they think they can sculpt so well. I just don't like a company that always totes their scultping skills every chance they get, and they do.

What do you want them to say?

"These sculpts are ok. GW has a better value for their cavalry because
the horses are made of plastic."

I get the ego thing now, though.

And as for the "no tactics like in other wargames" ....

Ive won 10 games straight without using my feat . Just TACTICS , not making a uber cheese list like in most other "war"games.
I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks GW has a monopoly on tactics needs to look in the dictionary and check what the word tactics means.

Ive seen more maneuvering in one PP game (actually, in Confrontation too) then in most GW tournament games through the years.

As far as tactics I see a lot more young kids playing GW and hardly any playing Warmachine. That's another big reason I have been playing more Warmachine and Hordes is the older gen playing it. Sculpts are quite nice and the bases don't even compare. GW bases = puny and unimpressive. GW current trend is actually looking more and more like PP with the reintroduction of herohammer.  Slogan play like you got a pair actually appeals to me better than play like a 12 year old which is the current mind set latley of GW.

Posted By Lemartes on 08/10/2007 9:00 AM
 Slogan play like you got a pair actually appeals to me better than play like a 12 year old which is the current mind set latley of GW.

Oh snap!