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Many thanks again for posting all this stuff here Ruglud !

Some notes from the vid for anyone who hasn't watched
-Interesting about some of the Prodos/Fox relationship, with the Predalien going through 4-5 sculpts before reaching a version Fox was happy matched the source material.
- Cloaking predator pics are very, very near and they have sourced the resin they had run out of. The clear resin won't fog significantly with glue, can be varnished.
- All of the rules will be available freely from the Prodos website in PDF form as well as book release, inc. FAQs
- Chronologically the game is set just after the movie Aliens; humanity knows of the xenomorphs existence, not really the Predator. The story is set on board the USS Theseus, a livestock ship that aliens get on board while the humans are in stasis (I guess accounting for the large numbers of aliens), the Predators then arrive presumably to hunt both the aliens and humans.
- Next step of the game is 'not on a spaceship', although the sales person wasn't free to talk about it.
- No new weapons or items in this game compared to what you have seen in the , everything is from the license and Fox.

I wonder what the attendance was like at the Wayland event, I'm pretty sure the date on the website was incorrect which probably didn't help..

The latest KS update said 'hoping for Xmas' in terms of the boxed game. I don't think that included any of the other stuff.

I think the clincher is waiting for Fox to approve the various bits and pieces, although looking at the rulebook that was released online that must still require some work in terms of publication.

There was indeed:



Although I believe the chap in the video posted above said that they were concentrating on getting the board-game to release first. I would expect the wargame rulebook to come in a later wave of releases (just my own thoughts going on the comments read so far, might not be correct!)

Think it's possible that there is some jumping to conclusions going on here? I don't think we are going to have much more than a minor delay (on top of an already delayed arrival) to be honest.

The game has the backing of the actual owners of the Aliens Vs. Predator Franchise, which is Fox, and if dozens of updates and other info are to be believed Prodos have been in continuous contact with Fox throughout the entirety of this project. We've read, for example, that the Predalien went through about half a dozen resculpts before a compromise was reached between both parties on the design.

So, I think it is fair to assume that Fox haven't suddenly pulled the plug this far in. However, I have read that it's rather easy to get stuff like this happening on KS - i.e. if there is even the slightest whisper of an issue, KS will remove the item from view until the dispute is resolved.

I think it is much more likely that, as has been suggested above, this relates to a minor component of the game (such as the video game characters - although I can't imagine Capcom causing a stink?).

That sales guy for Prodos needs to earn his money though and get an update out pronto, even if he doesn't have full knowledge of every detail there need to be some assurances made here.

It amazes me how often you get to use that HBMC

 CptJake wrote:

 Ktulhut wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I am so getting a refund if this goes tits up

Presumably, everyone gets a refund if it goes south.

Yeah right.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:
Think it's possible that there is some jumping to conclusions going on here? I don't think we are going to have much more than a minor delay (on top of an already delayed arrival) to be honest.

The game has the backing of the actual owners of the Aliens Vs. Predator Franchise, which is Fox, and if dozens of updates and other info are to be believed Prodos have been in continuous contact with Fox throughout the entirety of this project. We've read, for example, that the Predalien went through about half a dozen resculpts before a compromise was reached between both parties on the design.

So, I think it is fair to assume that Fox haven't suddenly pulled the plug this far in. However, I have read that it's rather easy to get stuff like this happening on KS - i.e. if there is even the slightest whisper of an issue, KS will remove the item from view until the dispute is resolved.

I think it is much more likely that, as has been suggested above, this relates to a minor component of the game (such as the video game characters - although I can't imagine Capcom causing a stink?).

That sales guy for Prodos needs to earn his money though and get an update out pronto, even if he doesn't have full knowledge of every detail there need to be some assurances made here.

Seems funny to chastise folks about jumping to conclusions, and then present your scenario, in other words jump to a conclusion yourself.

I hoped I was presenting a reasoned explanation for what might come of it. Rather than what seemed to be happening, which was someone noticing that they had a spot on their hand and then running around in a circle screaming because they were sure that they were developing the bubonic plague

This does seem a bit odd though - while organising their Kickstarters, someone accidentally hit the 'Mark this KS as subject of IP dispute button'?

Sad to hear that this seems to be the straw that has broken the camel's back now though with refunds being requested, I think we were almost there..

 Alex C wrote:
Well hopefully that's all that happened and the game is still on the way.

Still would like my refund, but I may be out of luck on that front. This isn't the only thing that has bothered me about fulfillment and Prodos' operations.

I think what might seem unlucky for you now might actually turn out to be lucky for you

Honestly, if you're a big fan of the IP (guessing you are with that avatar!) then you surely have to agree that some of these miniatures look absolutely fething awesome. Speaking personally, I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for some good predator/alien/marine miniatures. I guess since I first saw some of the earlier movies, more than 20 years ago.

My biggest reservation at present is the game mechanics and whether the game will be fun/worthwhile to play. Although, even if they are terrible I will still be happy with my investment just to get the minis (although YMMV over this point, depending on how big a fan you are of the franchise/how happy just to collect minis etc.)

I suppose at least you will have the luxury of getting at retail at a later date Alex.

Have changed my avatar also for the time being to celebrate the coming of this game, Tim Curry will have to wait until the game has been released (whenever that may be!)

It might be that Fox just aren't familiar with the vitriolic tone that some of this hobby's forums and public places can take (although one would have thought that if they had ever been involved with a computer game, they would have seen much worse?)

I still wouldn't be overly concerned by this, the miniatures and game are made and aren't going to be stopped over something so trivial. Although, this won't be doing any favours for Prodos' sales...

Disturbing Avatar Mr Pacific - I still shudder somewhat when I watch the facehugger scenes with Mr Hurt...

Haha, thanks, yes I do too! Don't think anything else in the series matches it..

You really think a company which already has existing mininature lines and a wide variety of product lines on sale, its own production facilities, and a contract with a company as big as Fox, is likely to do a 'moonlight' or something and skip town with pledgers money?

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply joyboozer?

It's a cock up, plain and simple. What's the saying about not seeing something as malicious when you can blame incompetence? I think that probably applies here.

Wow that is an absolute steal at that price...I've got the films on blu-ray, but its the basic 'directors cut' versions.

Interesting comments there biggusdoggus and well reasoned - hopefully we will see more on the communications front, have to agree that it has been abysmal.

Wonder how much of it is the fact that it's primarily a Polish company, and the whole language/culture difference? I'm just looking for causes here..

I mean looking at the company sizes, Prodos is actually bigger in terms of numbers (staff) than Mantic, yet the way each company has handled the comms for their Kickstarters (aside from anything else), as well as just a general level of professionalism, is absolutely incomparable. And Prodos have the massive license..

As a mark of remembrance my avatar will stay as it is for the moment; Not only for my love of John Hurt and Facehuggers, but also as a reminder of how we fans are waiting for these minis to arrive

 MattRendar wrote:
Well I remember hopeful . Being a huge aliens vs predator fan . I just want the miniatures so bad .

Me too. I'm just doing my best to forget about the release date, and when I'm actually going to get the miniatures. Prodos haven't come well out of this, and it would have to be miniature gold in future for me to consider backing them again, but I'm not going to cut my nose now to spite my face by cancelling my pledge.

I also don't think lack of them replying about a refund is also indicative that the project is suddenly about to fail.

There is basically only one other company in the wargaming industry that behaves like this, although admittedly Prodos haven't taken the next step of closing down all lines of communication with customers and pretending social media doesn't exist.

In neither case is it acceptable. Yes the fans can be an entitled bunch and complain about everything, but that's the way things are! They have to get used to it, and come back grovelling and doing everything they can to try and keep their customers on board. This is basic consumer relations 101, and what they are doing here in terms of accusations flying is not the way to keep customers on board.

Their new customers/sales guy has got a lot of work to do here to repair customer relations.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Pacific wrote:


Yes the fans can be an entitled bunch and complain about everything, but that's the way things are! They have to get used to it,

Why?

Why should companies put up with that? There are plenty of us that aren't over entitled complainers to support product lines.

When I say 'put up with' I mean that they shouldn't shut down lines of communications with their customers under any circumstances. Even if a company has made some unpopular decisions and made a higher amount of unsatisfied sentiment in those forums, there will still be a much larger percentage who are probably happy or don't care enough to voice discontent. Nonetheless those people might enjoy using the social media, and its free advertising/marketing, feedback etc. for the company. I'm sure you don't need me to explain the benefits of social media.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does anyone else get the impression that Fox has pretty much axed the project, but then gave Prodos the OK to ship out rewards to backers when they realized that stiffing the backers would create some serious negative publicity? I doubt there will ever be a retail release for this game or any Prodos AVP products. Once the KS stuff ships, I bet we never hear about Aliens or Predators from Prodos again.

If they survive.

That's an interesting jump to conclusions.

I think it's more likely that Fox doesn't want what could be perceived to be half-finished pictures of WIP miniatures, blurry shots of incomplete boards with unpainted miniatures etc. (as it perceives them to be harmful to the franchise*) and instead want finished studio goods and releases. At least that is how I have read this letter, again the true meaning hidden behind half-truths.

You could be right of course though, time will tell!

*Presumably damage to the franchise wasn't a consideration for either of the AvP movies.

That's much to big an assumption to make, I think it's much more probable that there were certain elements of the game or miniatures that Fox haven't agreed with.

It would be so, so cruel if were going to come this close to getting our mitts on these minis, and for them not to arrive.

Although I still don't think that is likely to happen - at the very least I'm sure the KS will be sent out to backers, although it would be nice if it went on general release also. They are some cracking minis, and I'm sure with the franchise it would sell well (if it were given the chance to go on sale)

As a Conclusion :

1. There is no IP dispute and never was.
2. The project is almost approved and it will be shipped soon.

That's good to know. Think it's important here to 'stay on target', in the words of Luke Skywalker.

However, our job is to make sure that peoples are aware about the progress and they know that the product is not at risk, maybe then we could discuss the future of AvP rather than "possibility of not receiving their stuff" , as this is not the case.

I think that's really the main point.

I'm sure what a lot of (perhaps silent/lurking) posters are waiting on, and really good to hear coming from someone at Prodos.

From my understanding, based on the issues with the Alien:Colonial marines, we cannot show any WIPs any more as if someone use these pictures for advertising it may be classified as "misleading customers".

Suddenly a grand chorus of.. "ooooohhhhh righhhhhhhhhhht" !

While I agree with the sentiments raised, I think it's been made pretty clear now and doesn't need repeating over and over again?

It's starting to resemble that scene from Casino, with Warzone Resurrection as Joe Pesci..

biggusdoggus wrote:

In the post requoted from Jarek above, he clearly states that the prototypes of the minis are approved, and by inference, that suggests that the final casts have not been - there can be significant changes between a prototype and a final product - that's why it's called a prototype, so it stands to reason that Fox would want to re-approve the minis at the production stage.

My highlights - I wonder if this is a language/translation issue?

'Prototype' can mean the first completed item used as a template for the others following. So a kind of initial sculpt/original, that once approved, then gets used as a template for the actual production miniature. A 'prototype', in fact!

I can't see otherwise why he would make a big deal of the fact that Fox has approved it, especially as they have mentioned previously that some designs have gone through a dozen or more re-designs before being accepted (the Predalien for instance), if this wasn't as close to a final production miniature as matters.

If that's the case, you either take it as a truth or not, depending on where you sit through Prodos' motivations, the various back and forth that has been going on, and the vagaries and professionalism of the company's internet communications.

Personally, if I were a betting man I would still put solid odds-on for pledgers getting the board game early in the near year, March-April at the latest.

But miracles do happen at Christmas, do you not ever watch the Christmas movie channel?!

biggusdoggus wrote:


But if I were a betting man, right now I'd rather be betting on a more likely result than the state of this game.

I don't even want to think about that!

Right now, I'm just thinking of painting that Predator-using-wrist-computer miniature.

We need some kind of AvP-themed '12 days of Christmas' song to sing while we are waiting..

Read back over the past few pages

Summary: Awaiting final approvals from Fox, the game is still on its way.

 MattRendar wrote:
I'm going to hyper sleep ...... Have bishop wake me up when we arrive

On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, seven marines hypersleeping..


..Wait! Too late for that now..

We need some other AvP-orientated games to help pass the time.

Anyone any ideas?

 CptJake wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

 MattRendar wrote:
I'm going to hyper sleep ...... Have bishop wake me up when we arrive

On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, seven marines hypersleeping..


..Wait! Too late for that now..

We need some other AvP-orientated games to help pass the time.

Anyone any ideas?

This could hold you over: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/57803/forlorn-hope

Get some minis from Khurasan to replace counters/standees if you desire.

Cheers for that, looks very cool!

Love what that person on BGG did with the Kurosan miniatures.

Funny I just tried to look on the Kurosan website, they have a picture of some stockings and a big 'away for the holidays, back in the new year!' message with no option to buy anything or look at the rest of the site! Got to love these little garage operations

Who knows! Terminator is owned by Fox as well right? I think certainly if I were Alessio Cavatore I would be on the phone to the guys at Prodos for some advice!

OK.. Re. the Prodos email if they're going to be getting in temp/agency staff soon, that's a good sign. You don't do that unless you are ready to roll, or are sure that you will be soon.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?

Haha yeah

Maybe it was deemed to be better than the script material for the AvP films and therefore inadmissible? If they have to make something that is equally bad we could be in for a wait, that would take some doing..

fullmetaljacket wrote:are they 28mm heroic like 40k??
fmj

Believe they are 28mm 'to eye', which is what most 28mm is nowadays.

Here we go, a size comparison shot that was posted some time ago (funny we have just been talking about the Terminator as it's one of a Necron )

Guessing the aliens would make something of an ironic stand-in for Tyranids if that's what you are intending, not sure the proportions would fit with the Marines in for Imperial Guard though..

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?

Haha yeah

Maybe it was deemed to be better than the script material for the AvP films and therefore inadmissible? If they have to make something that is equally bad we could be in for a wait, that would take some doing..

I could help. I have a colostomy bag full of ideas.

Like, what if they're in a sporting goods store fighting a brazillion aliens and the Predator runs out of ammo and blades and he's all riding a skateboard around smashing aliens with a baseball bat and a hockey stick, and there's a vuvuzela in there somwwhere, and then later he decides that the ultimate hunt is taking on UFC champions in hand-to-hand, but one of the champions is secretly an android, and a facehugger got him but the baby alien can't break out because he's an android, so it's growing and growing, and then at the end the Predator breaks the androind in half over his knee and the fully-grown andralien jumps out and he's all like, "Hssssssshhhhhhhh!" and the Predator goes "Reeeaarrrrrrr!" and it's all like "TO BE CONTINUED" bruuuump (inception horns)..?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did I mention that the vuvuzela makes an alien's head explode?

Haha, if I were you I would be waiting next to your phone right now for that call from the studio execs

Joyboozer wrote:
Jesus Christ had input?

Haha!

Although looking at the Aliens Vs. Predator films, you would have probably have thought Satan had been involved instead, as well as his bowels.

At least it is being proof read - some of the new Spartan stuff is horrendous, it's amazing how often this kind of stuff gets overlooked.

 CptJake wrote:
Some if us very much pledged for the Board Game because we wanted a cool AvP board game.

Of course when folks like me expressed concern about the rules we did hear 'Cool Minis!!!!!' as the typical reply.

Yes but.... . the minis!