Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 General Annoyance wrote:
So I haven't played Overwatch in months due to the community keeping me thoroughly downtrodden whenever I played it. These new D.Va changes might interest me enough to get back in.

Honestly though, I'm not too sure why she's being changed for the umpteenth time; when I left she was in good standing.

Not that it ultimately matters. My best memories of Overwatch involve me having to switch off her to play the healers nobody else wanted to play, or being told she wasn't competitive (which I hear has changed); I ended my run of Season 5 as a complete Support Main.

PTR's fired up and I'm queuing for games. Let's see how it goes...

Esports and streamers got sick of the dive comp. so they are blaming it on D.va because she is a must pick.

basically what all the d.va mains said would happen (that she will become a DM bot during season....4? nerfs)

Bliz cant lose their E bucks so they have to change things

same with mercy.

on the bright side this may open up play for Junk rat to be meta which would be nice.

Also as to the Micro missiles being weak...

well it does something like 190 damage splash at point blank against a wall to a d.va her self

and thats through armor.

the new hotness is going to be:
position,
fly in starting with DM then swtich to shooting
boop while continuing to shoot for a few shots of max damage
punch
finish off with missiles point blank as to not miss.

its easy 200-250 hp hero kill right there.

 Desubot wrote:
Esports and streamers got sick of the dive comp. so they are blaming it on D.va because she is a must pick.

basically what all the d.va mains said would happen (that she will become a DM bot during season....4? nerfs)

lol, that's exactly what D.Va's always been; from day 1 she's been a dive assassin, and to an extent she still is. Honestly though I don't think these changes will actually change her use in Dive Comps - it'll just be the same, but now with Rockets

I also don't take any other D.Va mains seriously. This is the same lot that said she was dead after her armour and health got switched over.

Also as to the Micro missiles being weak...

well it does something like 190 damage splash at point blank against a wall to a d.va her self

and thats through armor.

the new hotness is going to be:
position,
fly in starting with DM then swtich to shooting
boop while continuing to shoot for a few shots of max damage
punch
finish off with missiles point blank as to not miss.

its easy 200-250 hp hero kill right there.

When I played her I used the Missiles mid flight, which seems to be a mistake as they're projectile weapons. Firing them in tandem with Fusion Cannons as close range might work, but since they're overhead firing projectiles, chances are any non Tank hero will be able to dodge them unless you're aiming at their feet; if you're aiming at their feet, then you can't be using the Fusion Cannons effectively at the same time.

I think the Missiles will see the most use against Tanks and static targets (like Turrets), where missing with them is going to be much less frequent. Certainly a useful ability, but not one that I think will result in any faster kills by D.Va at close range.

Feel free to prove me wrong on that though - you are a fellow D.Va player after all

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Esports and streamers got sick of the dive comp. so they are blaming it on D.va because she is a must pick.

basically what all the d.va mains said would happen (that she will become a DM bot during season....4? nerfs)

lol, that's exactly what D.Va's always been; from day 1 she's been a dive assassin, and to an extent she still is. Honestly though I don't think these changes will actually change her use in Dive Comps - it'll just be the same, but now with Rockets

I also don't take any other D.Va mains seriously. This is the same lot that said she was dead after her armour and health got switched over.

Also as to the Micro missiles being weak...

well it does something like 190 damage splash at point blank against a wall to a d.va her self

and thats through armor.

the new hotness is going to be:
position,
fly in starting with DM then swtich to shooting
boop while continuing to shoot for a few shots of max damage
punch
finish off with missiles point blank as to not miss.

its easy 200-250 hp hero kill right there.

When I played her I used the Missiles mid flight, which seems to be a mistake as they're projectile weapons. Firing them in tandem with Fusion Cannons as close range might work, but since they're overhead firing projectiles, chances are any non Tank hero will be able to dodge them unless you're aiming at their feet; if you're aiming at their feet, then you can't be using the Fusion Cannons effectively at the same time.

I think the Missiles will see the most use against Tanks and static targets (like Turrets), where missing with them is going to be much less frequent. Certainly a useful ability, but not one that I think will result in any faster kills by D.Va at close range.

Feel free to prove me wrong on that though - you are a fellow D.Va player after all

at 8 seconds why not both

But yeah Honestly i already predicted that the dive comp wont change but instead will swap rolls for winston and d.va (d.va being the aggressor and winston being the protector.)

what it might do is bring in junkrat and Ana again as a viable healers (DM being absolutely annoying for Ana as she cant heal during its duration which is huge)

Oh goddammit.






As the post says, now you have to suffer too.

 Compel wrote:

As the post says, now you have to suffer too.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'd say the Micromissiles will be a boon to those like me who use Tanks as Chaos Bringers. Especially with D.Va and Winston, what I like to do is dive in, pull aggro from as many of the enemy team as possible, then get out again if I can. The Missiles will make me a more credible threat, and draw attention from a longer distance, letting my flanking maneuvers pull defenders away more effectively.

Anvildude wrote:
I'd say the Micromissiles will be a boon to those like me who use Tanks as Chaos Bringers. Especially with D.Va and Winston, what I like to do is dive in, pull aggro from as many of the enemy team as possible, then get out again if I can. The Missiles will make me a more credible threat, and draw attention from a longer distance, letting my flanking maneuvers pull defenders away more effectively.

They nerfed it from 200 to 160

so Booster, DM, then shoot, as you boop keep shooting AND missiles, punch, the shoot some more to kill 200-250 hp heros no issues.

The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

They tweaked it so that you're less likely to get duplicates. Either 'cash' or just new stuff, almost 100% of the time, now. And with the Arcade mode, it's relatively easy to get quick boxes if you want.

 War Kitten wrote:
The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

Yes and no.

They did a loot box update reducing the amount of duplicates.

But this had the downside of not giving out enough duplicate money credits to buy anything you wanted for the events.

i missed out on grillmaster 76 :/

Yeah, grillmastet 76 was definitely something I would have liked to pick up. I did score the Mercy skin and Pharrah's Michael Jordan POTG bit though.

 Desubot wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

Yes and no.

They did a loot box update reducing the amount of duplicates.

But this had the downside of not giving out enough duplicate money credits to buy anything you wanted for the events.

i missed out on grillmaster 76 :/

Obtaining/missing out on aesthetic items wouldn't be the type of thing that drives me away from a game but I wonder at the pricing on these limited skins. Older summer skins (eg Mcree "American") are only 250 but the awful 2017 skins are 3000 for no reason at all. Compounded with the low drop rate of coins it's a problem for people who like bad skins. I played for the whole event and the only skin I got was the Sombra one which I bought. Dozens of worthless account icons though. Whoooo!

Definitely a problem of them jamming literally a ton of worthless junk in the blind bags that is loot boxes. It wouldnt be as bad if it wasnt compounded with all the older releases.

also getting non event legendary skins :/

I ended up spending a ton of coin on older skins so it was nice to get that last year discount.

I thought about that some the other day. What if the coin drops/duplicates gave you equal value for what was duplicate or the level of coin drops. So a purple coin drop or dupe skin gave you 250, instead of the paltry fraction this gives now.

Then if you could sell your unwanted items at the half rate, you could actually afford some of the items you are after over time.

I have 4 or 5 Legendary Bastion skins. I'd keep two and sell the rest. Alternatively, the Graffitti Tracer skin I'll never use. If I could sell/trade I could have picked up the T. Racer skin I use instead and been able to afford the Grillmaster skin this round.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

Yes and no.

They did a loot box update reducing the amount of duplicates.

But this had the downside of not giving out enough duplicate money credits to buy anything you wanted for the events.

i missed out on grillmaster 76 :/

Obtaining/missing out on aesthetic items wouldn't be the type of thing that drives me away from a game but I wonder at the pricing on these limited skins. Older summer skins (eg Mcree "American") are only 250 but the awful 2017 skins are 3000 for no reason at all. Compounded with the low drop rate of coins it's a problem for people who like bad skins. I played for the whole event and the only skin I got was the Sombra one which I bought. Dozens of worthless account icons though. Whoooo!

I got burnt out on the Christmas event and haven't gone back due to this. Frankly, Blizzard's greed here is really unjustifiable when you consider that this was P2P game- I spent like $40 bucks on it at launch- and the amount of new content we get that aren't skins has been a laughable trickle. They're raking in tons of money, but they have little content that I don't have to grind my ass off to get to show for it.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

Yes and no.

They did a loot box update reducing the amount of duplicates.

But this had the downside of not giving out enough duplicate money credits to buy anything you wanted for the events.

i missed out on grillmaster 76 :/

Obtaining/missing out on aesthetic items wouldn't be the type of thing that drives me away from a game but I wonder at the pricing on these limited skins. Older summer skins (eg Mcree "American") are only 250 but the awful 2017 skins are 3000 for no reason at all. Compounded with the low drop rate of coins it's a problem for people who like bad skins. I played for the whole event and the only skin I got was the Sombra one which I bought. Dozens of worthless account icons though. Whoooo!

I got burnt out on the Christmas event and haven't gone back due to this. Frankly, Blizzard's greed here is really unjustifiable when you consider that this was P2P game- I spent like $40 bucks on it at launch- and the amount of new content we get that aren't skins has been a laughable trickle. They're raking in tons of money, but they have little content that I don't have to grind my ass off to get to show for it.

This is the formula that just works now.
at least you can grind for loot boxes instead of getting stuck on a key wall like CSGO or TF2

Also THE GAME IS FUN. THE SKINS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE FUN PLAYING IT. THEY ARE A FUN BONUS YOU GET FOR PLAYING A LOT.

The ability to buy loot boxes is literally just Blizzard being like, "Oh, you want to give us more money to get useless stuff sooner? Alright then."

I've not spent a cent on Overwatch beyond the original $40 I payed, and I'm only missing, like, 2 skins I want? And I'm perfectly fine to wait until I get them randomly, or save up my coins to buy one during an event. In the meantime... I have fun playing the game.

Anvildude wrote:
Also THE GAME IS FUN. THE SKINS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE FUN PLAYING IT. THEY ARE A FUN BONUS YOU GET FOR PLAYING A LOT.

The ability to buy loot boxes is literally just Blizzard being like, "Oh, you want to give us more money to get useless stuff sooner? Alright then."

I've not spent a cent on Overwatch beyond the original $40 I payed, and I'm only missing, like, 2 skins I want? And I'm perfectly fine to wait until I get them randomly, or save up my coins to buy one during an event. In the meantime... I have fun playing the game.

Best part at this point is that the skins arent exactly limited

anything you missed seems to spin around to the next year as with the old summer game skin. so save up and pick up a skin you like next year if you dont get it

And this is a Blizzard game. It's literally NEVER going to have its servers pulled.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

I got burnt out on the Christmas event and haven't gone back due to this. Frankly, Blizzard's greed here is really unjustifiable when you consider that this was P2P game-

The thing is it's not greed on Blizzards part, it's on you. You don't need those skins to play the game, there is no `end-game` area which is locked out until you pass a pay wall or collect enough skins. $40 buys you the game in it's entirety, random aesthetic options are available to grind, or if you can't/don't want to you can buy them. Your desire to own them all has nothing to do with Blizzard.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
The lootbox RNG drove me away from this game, have they fixed it at all or is it still a load of crap?

Yes and no.

They did a loot box update reducing the amount of duplicates.

But this had the downside of not giving out enough duplicate money credits to buy anything you wanted for the events.

i missed out on grillmaster 76 :/

Obtaining/missing out on aesthetic items wouldn't be the type of thing that drives me away from a game but I wonder at the pricing on these limited skins. Older summer skins (eg Mcree "American") are only 250 but the awful 2017 skins are 3000 for no reason at all. Compounded with the low drop rate of coins it's a problem for people who like bad skins. I played for the whole event and the only skin I got was the Sombra one which I bought. Dozens of worthless account icons though. Whoooo!

I got burnt out on the Christmas event and haven't gone back due to this. Frankly, Blizzard's greed here is really unjustifiable when you consider that this was P2P game- I spent like $40 bucks on it at launch- and the amount of new content we get that aren't skins has been a laughable trickle. They're raking in tons of money, but they have little content that I don't have to grind my ass off to get to show for it.

We have gotten 4 new characters, the arcade, multiple new game modes, and maps(I forget how many) for free. How much grinding did you do for all those things?

Everything in this game is free after the initial purchase. Are you really going to say that Blizzard is greedy for regularly updating and providing completely free content for their AAA game that you paid $40 for?

Yes, much has been added since launch. However, it is annoying to have what is often seen as the bulk of an update (in terms of content, not in terms of content that changes gameplay) locked behind a paywall.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Yes, much has been added since launch. However, it is annoying to have what is often seen as the bulk of an update (in terms of content, not in terms of content that changes gameplay) locked behind a paywall.

"Locked behind a paywall" would be the wrong phrasing. Locked behind an optimised system is more accurate, that being it's been optimised to make the grind for skins slightly too uncomfortable to encourage loot box purchases.

On one hand, the skins are cosmetic - purely added window dressing and nothing that will ultimately affect your experience on the game. On the other, they are nice, and very desirable; I being the idiotic D.Va fanboy I am bought 50 boxes during the Anniversary just to get the Cruiser skin. However, I would still argue that that was a totally unnecessary purchase.


Blizzard would have got lots of brownie points if they just had a progression system for heroes, awarding skins based on certain achievements - "get 20 booster kills during the Anniversary event to unlock Cruiser" or something along those lines. No more shouts of "I don't even play this hero" or "I didn't get the skin I wanted despite playing for 10 hours". You could still buy boxes to skip the progression, but now the skins would give you more credit as a player for earning those achievements, or demonstrate the size of your wallet.

Those are all cosmetic. There's been a bunch of new characters, maps, and game modes added since launch that are all included with your original purchase price.

Not sure complaining about a pretty dress being behind a pay wall is as valid a concern, and I've gotten plenty of money from the loot boxes to buy the skins I want, I rarely change between the ones I like.

Ewww i find the cruiser skin to be kinda ugly.

but then iv been buying like 30 boxes every event since Christmas so eh.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Those are all cosmetic. There's been a bunch of new characters, maps, and game modes added since launch that are all included with your original purchase price.

That doesn't invalidate the point of cosmetic items being locked behind excessive grinding in any form.

Not sure complaining about a pretty dress being behind a pay wall is as valid a concern, and I've gotten plenty of money from the loot boxes to buy the skins I want, I rarely change between the ones I like.

The loot boxes are better than they were before due to ruling out duplicates. Even so, in a game with as diverse a playstyle as Overwatch, not getting skins for the characters you want is incredibly frustrating, especially during events with a limited time frame to get them, and increased prices if you want to bypass grinding levels.


Personally, White Rabbit is my favourite skin in the game - easily purchasable and not very desirable/used by other players. Frankly I don't care about skins enough to make a hardline complaint about it. Regardless, dismissal of the point that these skins are deliberately locked behind a wall that is uncomfortable to grind through without stepping up extra green is not a good standpoint on microtransactions in videogames as a whole.

Only thing cosmetically i can complain about is how UGLY gold weapons are.

you kinda have to match it to a skin.

and im sitting on 5 of them now :/

Seeing as I've been collecting the Gold skins (Posh for Tracer, Amber for Mercy, Paladin, I think, for Rein, etc. etc), and have no Gold Gun...

Or perhaps its more accurate to say that that's one of the collections I'm going for. I'm currently just saving my currency for buying Event stuff- I only ever really like 1 or 2 Event skins, usually. Waiting for October for Junkenstein.

I stand behind what I said, the core Overwatch game is solid, with plenty of character variety, and game variety in one package.

Complaints about a cosmetic items that can be gotten without paying seem little. That's subjective, but I see the way they handle this as the best possible outcome of how to handle microtransactions, which is to make it optional and not affecting gameplay in any way. I've seen similar mode that pack away things like boosts, new weapons, gameplay affecting cards behind those loot boxes and that's something you can get your panties in a bunch about.

They don't charge for maps, they don't charge for new characters, they don't charge for a constant stream of new short lived game modes and special events.

You may not want to make a hard complaint, but a complaint was made.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I stand behind what I said, the core Overwatch game is solid, with plenty of character variety, and game variety in one package.

I wouldn't disagree with that. Pound for pound, Overwatch is perhaps the best value game I can think of on the market. However, that doesn't devalue the argument that microtransactions in Overwatch are intrusive.

Complaints about a cosmetic items that can be gotten without paying seem little. That's subjective, but I see the way they handle this as the best possible outcome of how to handle microtransactions, which is to make it optional and not affecting gameplay in any way.

Or they could just not charge for microtransactions in a game that you've already paid for. I believe this is what Jim Sterling calls a "Fee to Pay" game - a game that you pay for in order to pay for more, and while the nature of the microtransactions is something that ultimately has no effect on solid gameplay (although psychologically you could argue that - an argument for another day though), I don't think you can argue against the idea that:

- Blizzard has almost certainly optimised the system of acquiring skins normally in the game to encourage the purchase of loot boxes.

- The game would be better without these microtransactions.

I've seen similar mode that pack away things like boosts, new weapons, gameplay affecting cards behind those loot boxes and that's something you can get your panties in a bunch about.

And that is a bad business practice that should rightfully be heavily criticised in anything other than a free to play game (and even there it's shady). However, while the "it could be worse" argument is one that I can and have appreciated, I don't think it's an argument that should be used to discredit the point that these cosmetic items are putting people off playing the game, since they keep getting disappointed that they couldn't get the ones they wanted, but instead got a bunch of others that they won't use.

They don't charge for maps, they don't charge for new characters, they don't charge for a constant stream of new short lived game modes and special events.

Again, this doesn't do anything to diminish the point that cosmetics in Overwatch are locked behind a grindwall. Positives do not balance out negatives when it comes to game critique; you can perhaps forgive a negative (which is exactly what I do with cosmetics in Overwatch), but it's still a negative regardless of what I'm willing to forgive.

You may not want to make a hard complaint, but a complaint was made.

A complaint was made because the complaint was valid. Complaints about loot boxes and skins in this game have been made across this thread long before I raised it. An invalid complaint would be one that has no evidence to prove that it's something negative with the game; with cosmetics you can easily argue that the desirability of them makes the grind for them uncomfortable for the player, as they're ranking up just for the chance of getting what they want, or paying real money to increase those chances. Emphasis on increase there - that doesn't even guarantee what you want. I bought 50 boxes for Cruiser and still didn't get it - it was only because of the coin dump I got that I could buy it manually before the event expired.

It may matter less than in game balance or quality of content, but it still matters.