YMTC - friendly fire and morale checks

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**yakface**

FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

The Morale rules on page 47 of the rulebook say: "Units normally have to take a Morale check in the following situations: If a unit takes 25% or more casualties from shooting in the turn -- test at the end of the Shooting phase."

QUESTION: Do you play that a unit which suffers 25% casualties in it's own shooting phase (caused by a scattering Ordnance shot for example) must take a morale check?

OPTION A. I play the rules as written: units that suffer 25% casualties in a shooting phase must take a morale check regardless of whose player turn it is or whose shooting caused the casualties.

OPTION B. I play that units only have to take morale checks for suffering 25% casualties during their opponents turn.

OPTION C. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

**Lordhat**

I play that units have to take tests because of friendly scattering weapons, but not because of 'Gets hot' weapons.

**yakface**

The point of this poll isn't what constitutes a shooting casualty (that would be another poll). Simply assume that whatever your criteria for shooting casualty applies in this situation and your unit suffers 25% casualties in its own shooting phase. Does it take a morale check?

**Glaive Company CO**

I'm with Lordhat on this one. So Yak, are you saying we should vote option A?

**yakface**

Yes. I'll change the example to make it easier for you.

**dornsfist**

Just curious, why wouldn't you take a morale test for suffering 25% casualties at the end of any shooting phase? A casualty is a casualty regardless of what caused it. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity in the RAW. I am surprised this is not followed by RAW enough that a poll is required, I don't remeber an instance where I played a game when it wasn't followed RAW. I even rolled morale checks if a destroyed tank blew up in a d6" radius and caused casualties to a squad.

**Glaive Company CO**

Don't make yak come back there dornfist! He'll turn this darn thread around mister! That'll end your precious field trip pretty darn quick. Won't it!?

He's warned us not to start that debate and although I would love to get into it, we'd better not.

**whitedragon**

So yak is the bus driver?

"Haaaail to the yak driver, yak driver, yak driver,
Haaaaaiiiilll to the yak driver, yak king of zoats!"

"The polls on the dakka go round and round,
round and round,
round and round,
The polls on dakka go round and round,
until, dotnetnuke crashes!"

It's been a long day folks.

**don_mondo**

Posted By dornsfist on 09/20/2007 10:16 AM
Just curious, why wouldn't you take a morale test for suffering 25% casualties at the end of any shooting phase? A casualty is a casualty regardless of what caused it. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity in the RAW. I am surprised this is not followed by RAW enough that a poll is required, I don't remeber an instance where I played a game when it wasn't followed RAW. I even rolled morale checks if a destroyed tank blew up in a d6" radius and caused casualties to a squad.

Because in the past, GW has clarified that casualties from friendly fire, vehicle explosions, emergency disembarkation, etc do not cause a Morale test. So RAW or RAI?

**Tiderian**

I selected option B. I personnally prefer option A, but we don't play it that way.

My own preference would be that any time (except in close combat) a squad suffers 25% casualties, they take a morale test. That should take place whether the casualties come from failed dangerous terrain tests in the movement phase, enemy shooting, friendly shooting (gets hot, ordnance scatter, nearby vehicle explosion), or the close combat result where a squad destroys a vehicle and the ensuing explosion kills more than 25% of them.

**yakface**

Posted By don_mondo on 09/20/2007 12:52 PM

Posted By dornsfist on 09/20/2007 10:16 AM
Just curious, why wouldn't you take a morale test for suffering 25% casualties at the end of any shooting phase? A casualty is a casualty regardless of what caused it. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity in the RAW. I am surprised this is not followed by RAW enough that a poll is required, I don't remeber an instance where I played a game when it wasn't followed RAW. I even rolled morale checks if a destroyed tank blew up in a d6" radius and caused casualties to a squad.

Because in the past, GW has clarified that casualties from friendly fire, vehicle explosions, emergency disembarkation, etc do not cause a Morale test. So RAW or RAI?

Actually the old FAQ (for 3rd edition in the CA Annual, IIRC) said that casualties caused from an exploding vehicle did count towards morale checks.

But again, what constitutes a casualty isn't the point of this poll (I'll do that one later), just whether or not friendly fire causes morale checks when you play your games.

**Blackheart666**

if I'm playing against friends. I let the dumb rules slide (like this one). If I'm playing against people I don't know. It's ruleshammer.. ie: hammer them with the rules.

especially if it's some tourneymonkey.

**Democratus**

RAW is crystal clear on this one.

Casualties during your own shooting phase are "casualties from shooting in the turn". We've even had GW clarifiy that the term "turn" means Player turn unless otherwise specified.

Option A.

**Saldiven**

It actually even makes a kind of sense, fluffwise, too.

If old Ralphie in the Basilisk drops an Earthshaker round on your sqaud's position, you're really not likely to just laugh and say, "Aw, that just ol' Ralphie, nothing to worry about....."

**don_mondo**

Posted By yakface on 09/20/2007 5:32 PM

Posted By don_mondo on 09/20/2007 12:52 PM

Posted By dornsfist on 09/20/2007 10:16 AM
Just curious, why wouldn't you take a morale test for suffering 25% casualties at the end of any shooting phase? A casualty is a casualty regardless of what caused it. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity in the RAW. I am surprised this is not followed by RAW enough that a poll is required, I don't remeber an instance where I played a game when it wasn't followed RAW. I even rolled morale checks if a destroyed tank blew up in a d6" radius and caused casualties to a squad.

Because in the past, GW has clarified that casualties from friendly fire, vehicle explosions, emergency disembarkation, etc do not cause a Morale test. So RAW or RAI?

Actually the old FAQ (for 3rd edition in the CA Annual, IIRC) said that casualties caused from an exploding vehicle did count towards morale checks.

But again, what constitutes a casualty isn't the point of this poll (I'll do that one later), just whether or not friendly fire causes morale checks when you play your games.

But why or why not might be important. Didn't find the FAQ re exploding vehicles yet, but the one I did find said:

32. Casualties suffered by a unit when a transport they are in is destroyed do not cause a Morale test. CA 2004

This may be the one I was thinking of, but even if so, why would casualties from emergency disembarkation not cause a Morale test (pre-Entagnlement) but casualties from an exploding vehicle did.

**dornsfist**

Option A

**Zathrithal**

Posted By Saldiven on 09/21/2007 2:30 PM
It actually even makes a kind of sense, fluffwise, too.

If old Ralphie in the Basilisk drops an Earthshaker round on your sqaud's position, you're really not likely to just laugh and say, "Aw, that just ol' Ralphie, nothing to worry about....."

I laughed so hard when I read this. You made my night.

**Wehrkind**

What about units walking over a mine field and getting toasted?

I play that 25% casualties/phase = morale check, with the exception of melee. Granted, it doesn't exactly come up often for me, the only time I can think of being a bunch of mutants killing a third of themselves with firearms that overheated.