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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

There is a serious problem with art direction and quality assurance at Mantic

As someone who admittedly only has a purchased Dreadball starter box in hand, didn't back and has no interest in Kings of War (Fantasy themes aren't my thing), and has only the photos of Deadzone to go by, I don't see any problem at all in the art direction - despite repeatedly being told otherwise.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's an endemic problem with the company.

QA is, of course, another issue.

NTRabbit wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

There is a serious problem with art direction and quality assurance at Mantic

As someone who admittedly only has a purchased Dreadball starter box in hand, didn't back and has no interest in Kings of War (Fantasy themes aren't my thing), and has only the photos of Deadzone to go by, I don't see any problem at all in the art direction - despite repeatedly being told otherwise.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's an endemic problem with the company.

QA is, of course, another issue.

Yeah, I'm with this guy! Even though I've only handled a small percentage of the worlds populations boobs, I'm pretty sure they are all awesome!

 GrimDork wrote:
I was looking forward to sinking my teeth into the new enforcer sculpts, but if they want to send me what amounts to 10 free current enforcers, then I'll be fine with that. But... Did it say anywhere in the update that these were specifically the warpath ones? I read it on my phone, and didn't see it, but I'm guessing this is interpreted as implied? If thats the case then does the restic baggy contain the metal bits for the assault blade and burst laser... or am I mistaken and those actually exist in the restic strike team?

I think it's implication based on the image used and the model count. And I can confirm the Restic Strike Team does include 1 Restic blade arm (and pistol) and 1 Restic Burst Laser.

On my phone so can't really reply to everything.

I've confirmed that of the 8 basic enforcers that we were supposed to be getting in the basic kits, we're getting 6. 1 of the new sculpts and a bag of the current enforcers including restic cannon and blade. These 8 were supposed to have been swapped out for 10 hard plastic enforcers and we're getting those HP enforcers in the second wave. So all in all, we're getting 7 extra enforcers on top of the ones that people pledged for. This isn't a problem from the gameplay point of view since the enforcers had more than 100 points in the core box anyway.

Judgedoug, I'm sure Mantic will be in touch to sort out your pledge. From best I can tell you'll be sorted with the hard plasticenforcers but of course Mantic will make sure you get what you want.

In terms of redoing tools, the clips weren't as solid as in the video when I visited Mantic HQ. It's likely that the problems weren't that the factory screwed up, possibly that Mantic wanted to see if they could get the fit even tighter. As others have pointed out, no one in this thread (at least none of those complaining because the sprues have been retooled) has enough experience with plastic tooling to say how many times tooling normally has to be redone to get it right, including at wargames factory. We don't know the exact reason why the tools were redone and it's pointless to speculate.

I did have the wrong end of the stick ehen it came to the whole restic/hard plastic in the first wave. I misunderstood Ronnie when he told me that plastics weren't coming to mean that they werent in the basic enforcer sets at all.

So Mantic have taken the "Forgeworld position" on the Mars Attacks Dreadball team....I'll just put my wallet safely away then.

Doesn't really hold up when we're talking about 5 or 6 or 10 or 14 days to get an email reply.. or still be waiting for one...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zweischneid wrote:

Give em a day or two to at least actually investigate the questions you've asked. Possible the weekend to - ya know - get round to it.

This "Dakka is the center of the known universe, companies should suck up to us"-attitude is getting rather annoying.

Not to mention that this is "News & Rumours". It should be the job of .. ya know .. the mods of this site, to keep this thread to News & Rumours, and to guide customer complaints and quality discussions to an appropriate thread in the Mantic Games section of this board, or better yet the Mantic Forums.

Maybe you should wander back over to your blog and rule with an iron fist over there instead of bitching about how this site is run, if you're so unhappy? I'm a bit over your endless "the way it should be done is the way I interpret things..." attitude in posts here

I don't see how opinions on what should be in news and rumours are any less relevant than complaining about response times?

Daedle wrote:
I don't see how opinions on what should be in news and rumours are any less relevant than complaining about response times?

Of course you are right.

But if we couldn't mark each other as villains, what fun would the forum be?

 Azazelx wrote:


Maybe you should wander back over to your blog and rule with an iron fist over there instead of bitching about how this site is run, if you're so unhappy? I'm a bit over your endless "the way it should be done is the way I interpret things..." attitude in posts here

Wasn't this thread (recently) all about how people should listen to feedback and respond to their fans and customers? I guess Dakka doesn't hold itself to the same standard that they demand of companies like Mantic when it comes to listening to critical feedback?

Yeah, that's right.

Now get back on topic.

I don't want to throw this thread off track, but regarding the Mars Attacks! stuff... can we expect the same problems as the DZ, Db and KoW kits?

They're going to be one piece models, and don't seem to be massively detailed so hopefully not.

I'm not at all clued up on tooling or what not.

Mars Attacks is using a different material altogether so any problems from past kickstarters won't apply. The only crossovers are the game mat (which we've already had for Dreadball and is fantastic) and the hard plastic scenery (which even the biggest detractors of Mantic are very optimistic about).

monders wrote:I don't want to throw this thread off track, but regarding the Mars Attacks! stuff... can we expect the same problems as the DZ, Db and KoW kits?

They're going to be one piece models, and don't seem to be massively detailed so hopefully not.

I'm not at all clued up on tooling or what not.

Past performance is one of the best indicators of future performance. I expect trouble.

Daedle wrote:Mars Attacks is using a different material altogether so any problems from past kickstarters won't apply. The only crossovers are the game mat (which we've already had for Dreadball and is fantastic) and the hard plastic scenery (which even the biggest detractors of Mantic are very optimistic about).

Really? Where have they stated this and what is the new material?

If you read earlier in the thread, Mantic has stated Daedle as a fairly reliable source. They may have told him directly.

(Okay daedle, I've talked you up as reliable, now my reputation is tied to yours lol)

I also feel like you are cherry picking "past experiences". Every Season of Dreadball saw increased overall quality of sculpts, so other issues aside (which you are obviously accounting for with your comment) constant improvement in model quality should also be expected.

 CptJake wrote:
Really? Where have they stated this and what is the new material?

In the Mars Attacks KS, on day 1 of it, same material that is being used for Loka and the Gears of War board game, good review and pics of the material can be found here:

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/review-gears-of-war-board-game.html

 CptJake wrote:

Really? Where have they stated this and what is the new material?

It's somewhere in the MA thread I think, the figures are single piece and made out of the same plastic they've used for the Loka pieces, which is also the same plastic used by FFG in their Gears of War game

Edit: Ninja'd

Thanks everyone. I think I'll keep my pledge.

WOOO MARS ATTACKS! YEEEEAH!

Annnd back on topic -

I hope to have a game of Dead Zone at the Mantic open day at the end of November.

Earth Dragon wrote:
If you read earlier in the thread, Mantic has stated Daedle as a fairly reliable source. They may have told him directly.

(Okay daedle, I've talked you up as reliable, now my reputation is tied to yours lol)

I also feel like you are cherry picking "past experiences". Every Season of Dreadball saw increased overall quality of sculpts, so other issues aside (which you are obviously accounting for with your comment) constant improvement in model quality should also be expected.

Reliable except when I misunderstand something I'm told..!

And yes absolutely to the second. Every Mantic release has been bumping up in quality and Deadzone/Mars attacks is no exception.

And there will ve plenty of deadzone demos going on at the Open Day don't worry. A few of us are staying up late the night before assembling (and painting if we've got time) demo sets.

 scarletsquig wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Really? Where have they stated this and what is the new material?

In the Mars Attacks KS, on day 1 of it, same material that is being used for Loka and the Gears of War board game, good review and pics of the material can be found here:

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/review-gears-of-war-board-game.html

Thanks!

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:


Maybe you should wander back over to your blog and rule with an iron fist over there instead of bitching about how this site is run, if you're so unhappy? I'm a bit over your endless "the way it should be done is the way I interpret things..." attitude in posts here

Wasn't this thread (recently) all about how people should listen to feedback and respond to their fans and customers? I guess Dakka doesn't hold itself to the same standard that they demand of companies like Mantic when it comes to listening to critical feedback?

Since you post constantly (3k posts in 3 years) and continue to post, you're just as much a part of "Dakka" as myself or anyone else here. If you were really fussed about this entire forum not being a mass of press releases, I imagine you'd simply stop reading here or find a better forum to spend your time on, as I'm sure you also know what your basic option is if you don't like the rules of this playground are. Since we all know you continue to participate, enjoy posting things in order to be contrary and love a good stir of the pot, you're at least as much a part of the "problems" that you facetiously complain about as anyone else.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:


Maybe you should wander back over to your blog and rule with an iron fist over there instead of bitching about how this site is run, if you're so unhappy? I'm a bit over your endless "the way it should be done is the way I interpret things..." attitude in posts here

Wasn't this thread (recently) all about how people should listen to feedback and respond to their fans and customers? I guess Dakka doesn't hold itself to the same standard that they demand of companies like Mantic when it comes to listening to critical feedback?

I think you should stop sleeping with the Tyranid Codex under your pillow.

There is no "Dakka".

Well, other than this guy here - Dakka.

But he hasn't made a single post yet...

Anyway, I'm looking forward to pictures of unpainted production models!

I wonder if they might "have time to take any" before sending out the figures? It's the usual excuse, after all.

I got three different materials in my season 3, metal, a darker coloured restic which was of excellent quality, and a lighter colour unfortunately the majority was the lighter restic and the quality was awful.

Joyboozer wrote:
I got three different materials in my season 3, metal, a darker coloured restic which was of excellent quality, and a lighter colour unfortunately the majority was the lighter restic and the quality was awful.

Sounds like you are cherry picking 'past experiences' like I did.

Daedle, you say that

"Every Mantic release has been bumping up in quality and Deadzone/Mars attacks is no exception"

i cannot fully agree with that.

So on the KOW side the hard plastic Men at arms are better than the Elven/Undead and Orc hard plastic sprues? Not for me. Even the initial Warpath hard plastic sprues, whilst being a prime example of bean counting of the worse kind, knock most of the other Warpath restic releases into a cocked hat because of the level of detail and lack of mold lines. For me in terms of art direction/concept and ideas the quality is improving but the results are wildly varied.

I would agree that in terms of rulebooks/components/card stock etc (say project Pandora vs Dreadball) then the quality is on the upward curve, and again the Dreadzone mat/rulebook and cards look great. As for the battlezone sprues they look brilliant, and may well adorn tabletops for multiple games across the world.

To a more "on-topic" issue have we still not had the final list of what will be shipped in wave one come December?

Joyboozer wrote:
I got three different materials in my season 3, metal, a darker coloured restic which was of excellent quality, and a lighter colour unfortunately the majority was the lighter restic and the quality was awful.

Me too. For me ,the lighter material was used on the alternate sculpts for the season 1 stuff, which makes me think they might have been made some time ago (before a switchover to a newer material). The alternate sculpts for season 2, and all the season 3 stuff*, was done in the darker restic which was much better.

So I'm hopeful the 'upwards curve' does exist.

* Except the notorious metals, obviously.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Daedle, you say that
"Every Mantic release has been bumping up in quality and Deadzone/Mars attacks is no exception"

i cannot fully agree with that.

You're not wrong, but I think in the context of looking purely at Restic Daedle is largely correct.

Yep that's what I meant. Also the general curve of Dreadball being better than KoW overall and Deadzone looking to be better than Dreadball.

Daedle wrote:
Yep that's what I meant. Also the general curve of Dreadball being better than KoW overall and Deadzone looking to be better than Dreadball.

We have no indicator of the latter yet, do we?

IMO the miniatures shown for DZ so far look better than the ones for DB.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Daedle wrote:
Yep that's what I meant. Also the general curve of Dreadball being better than KoW overall and Deadzone looking to be better than Dreadball.

We have no indicator of the latter yet, do we?

We have seen painted versions of the resin masters for many of the sculpts.