Which Eldar Army Would You Play?

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**Uriah**

Greetings all, I am a long time lurker and this is my first post here. I have played 40k for quite some time now (several years). I have played Tyranids (Selling), Mech Tau (Giving those to my brother), and currently Blood Angels. I am looking for a Xenos army and Eldar are really attractive. As for the context, I am a tournament player and I am looking for a tournament list (I can always tone down for friendlys). I have landed on these two lists, but am curious as to your opinion as to which one to build. So, Which one would you play at a GT and why?

List #1: Mech Eldar

HQ (1)

Autarch (140)[/b] Shuriken Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Haywire Grenades, Forceshield, Jetbike, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters.

Troop (3)

[/b]

Guardian Jetbike Squadron x4 (134)[/b] Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, x3, Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Singing Spear, Destructor.

[/b]

Guardian Jetbike Squadron x4 (134)[/b] Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults, x3, Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Singing Spear, Destructor.

[/b]

Pathfinders x6 (144) [/b]Eldar Long Rifles, Shuriken pistols...

Elite (3)

Harlequin Troupe x6 (162)[/b] Shuriken Pistols x6, Harlequins Kiss x6, Flip belts & Halo Suits, Shadowseer w/ Hallucinogen Grenades, Veil of Tears.

Fire Dragons x6 (96) [/b]Fusion Guns x6, Meta Bombs.

Fast (1)

Warp Spiders x8 (193)[/b] Death Spinner x7, Exarch w/ Dual Death Spinner.

Heavy (3)

Falcon (195)[/b] Halo Field, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

List #2 Foot (Primarily) Eldar

HQ (2) [/b]

Eldrad (210)[/b] Shuriken Pistol, Staff of Ulthamar, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Ghosthelm, Witchblade, Spirit Stones, Rune Armour (3+), Eldritch Storm, Fortune, Guide, Doom, Mind War.

Avatar (155) [/b]Wailing Doom.

Troop (5) [/b]

[/b]

Guardians x10 (110)[/b] Shuriken Catapults x10, Bright Lance Platform.

Dire Avengers x6 (72)[/b] Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.

Elite (2) [/b]

Harlequin Troupe x6 (162)[/b] Shuriken Pistols x6, Harlequins Kiss x6, Flip belts & Halo Suits, Shadowseer w/ Hallucinogen Grenades, Veil of Tears.

Heavy Support (3) [/b]

Falcon (185)[/b] Halo Field, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon, Scatter Laser.

Dark Reapers x5 (217) [/b]Reaper Launchers x4, Exarch w/ Eldar Missile Launcher, Fast Shot.

P.S. I am also looking for advice in regards to fine tuning so feel free to fire away. Thanks.

Uriah

**Flavius Infernus**

I play softer versions of both these armies, and they're both fun. The walking army is less rock/paper/scissors for tournament play against all comers. Mech Eldar can struggle sometimes against certain mech tau, daemonbomb and zilla nids builds, and so it's really easy to zero out on drawing a bad match.

Having said that, shining spears are a better choice for the mech army than spiders. The spiders can't keep up or turboboost for invulnerable, and you need something that can assault without having to wait a turn inside a transport (to catch necron destroyer bodies, bikes, jump troops, etc.).

**steinerp**

I voted for the first list but if going some place with comp/sport I would trade one of the falcons for a fire prism. I like the warp spiders alot and would keep them over spears anyday.

**Uriah**

@ Flavius, It's interesting that you used the rock/paper/scissors analogy in regards to the mech list because it's the one I use for the foot list. With the footers I'm worried abuut things like stealer shock, swarm nids, and orks (Especially in regards to the new dex). At least the mech list has the "Run away, Run away" (Point denial) ability.

Spiders Vs. Spears is a battle that i've been having for some time. Spiders are great at softening up units before an assault, instakilling swarm bases (Scarabs, Rippers), Light vehicle blasting, and skimmer insurance. You just cant ask them to do too much. Against jump packers I'm not all that worried because they will come to me anyway. But, your right, destroyers pose a huge threat because I can't catch them in assault and certanly can't out shoot them. Then again spiders could allways tie them up for one turn untill the autarch/harlie combo can clean house. Spears just seem like too many points for one attack. But, I wont knock it 'till I try it.

@ Steinerp, As far as copedative lists go...I've tried to soften this one a bit with the extra troop selections (Vs 2 x 3 Jetbikes). In the end, people will always see 3 falcons and drop your sports just because (maybe rightfully so). Prisms work better in pairs anyway and i really don't want to loose my transport ability.

Thaks for the comments guys, keep em' coming.

Uriah

**Orlanth**

1. Mech Eldar

Power: Thisa list has all the things poweful Eldar armies have, hlofalcons and Harlequins. By taking more of the same and not being particularly experienced you become food for tghose whop know how to defeat these armies. generally you will do well, but in a *yawn*" not another" sort of way.
Your weaknesses are first the Warp Spiders, they are fairly mediocre and have mediocre guns. What are they to kill exactly? Horde infantry? They cannot do that job alone. For all their mobility Warp spiders belong in a footslogger list. The second weakness are the Pathfinders, being alone and not very good at close combat they are asking to be attacked by Deepstrikers and the enemy's assault/counterassault units.

Theme: All your army skimms about exceopt Warpo spiders who warp in.... Then you have your footslogger Pathfinders. drop this unit in favour of something mobile.

All in all I would drop the Spiders and Patrhfinders in return for a Wave Serpent filled with Howling Banshees or Striking Scorpions, both with exarch.

2. Footsloggers

Power: Your Dire Avengers are only truly worth it when suppoorted by an exarch. Take just one squad of ten to make up fopr it. This army would do far better than the other as a base for the Pathfinders as you actually have a firebase.
While on a firepower army I would drop one Falcon in return for three War walkers, mostly scatter laser armed. Replace the corresponding Harlequin unit with Striking Scorpions, they make good countrassault units, as they are your assault all rounders and are fairly resilient.

I find Dark reaper exarchs to be a waste. Many aspect are support for the exarch, other are based on the aspect with the exarch to augment them. reapers are firmly in this category. With a nice 2x S5 Ap3 gun why do you want the missile launcher. If you need S8 for any reason all those reaper shotsd are wasted, if you dont the exarch has been upgraded for no good reason. Reaper exarchs MUST choose a target based on the firepower of the squad - not themselves. Generally this restricts you to +1BS and crack shot with the reaper launcher at most, and even that is not very good as you shouldnt be wasting firepower on units in good cover. So decide for yourself, is +12pt a good price for Bs5, if it is get the exarch, if not just take four or five standard Dark Reapers. In any case Reaper launchers is all they ever need.

Theme: I have no problem with your overall theme. an Ulthwe army with heavy command, lots of Guardians (by V4 eldar ideals on "lots") and varied backup.

**Orlanth**

Oh, and .... welcome to Dakka.

**Flavius Infernus**

Flavius, It's interesting that you used the rock/paper/scissors analogy in regards to the mech list because it's the one I use for the foot list.

Well I've probably played the mech list more in tournaments, and whether I place high or not appears to boil down to opponent selection. I've zeroed out with the mech assault list at tournaments, about 5 times in the last year or so, twice at Adepticon vs. mech tau and daemonbomb, twice at a tournament in Syracuse vs. mech tau and daemonbomb, and most recently in the 'ard boyz semifinal vs. zilla nids.

But when I don't draw one of these opponents being played by a skilled player, I usually place in the top 3, or often win.

It's just that the footslogger list has so much more resilience when things go wrong. The mech list gives you a lot of control of the flow and initiative of the game, but once falcons start going down, things can go south really fast (and really completely).

**Uriah**

@ Orlanth, Thanks for the welcome and for the comments. In regards to the ?Yawn? comment it does seem that mech eldar have been ?done to death,? but for some reason I just keep coming back to them.

From Orlanth?Your weaknesses are first the Warp Spiders, they are fairly mediocre and have mediocre guns. What are they to kill exactly? Horde infantry??

The Warp spiders do feel like a weakness in some ways as you already mentioned. My chief concern being their range. But, they have their specific tasks that they do very well. They can reliably put 2 wounds on a carnifex (or equivalent), 2 glances on an eldar skimmer, or any other armor 12 (Side armor), Demolish speeders, Insta-kill (annoying) swarm bases, soften up units for assault. Essentially, they move up a flank seeking targets of opportunity. Or if all else fails, their JSJ can keep them alive for VP denial.

In regards to the pathfinders...I think that they have their place in a mech list. They can go MC hunting, but the primary reason that they are in this list is the same reason that the Avengers in the foot list are in small groups w/ minimal equipment. They are what i like to call ?Trap Springers.? They take the enemies best shot , die, tand them the rest of my army can pounce. Go ahead and Drop Pod / Deep strike on my Pathfinders. They still get their 2+ (assuming no flamers), you didn?t attack one of my more ?valuable? units , them my pathfinders can fleet away and i can bring the weight of my army to bear on the threat. The Avengers serve the same roll in the foot list. Thier shuriken fire is useful, but i can move them into positions (via fleet) to take the charges of Uber assault units, die, leaving that Uber unit out to dry. Not perfect on paper, but in game they have their uses.

As for why i would want the Reaper Exarch with his 2 strength 8 shots...Nidzilla, dual lash chaos, or in a pinch extra tank hunting. IMHO it?s worth the extra points.

Form Orlanth?While on a firepower army I would drop one Falcon in return for three War walkers, mostly scatter laser armed.?

The reason for the falcon over firepower is balance. The firepower would be perfect against an army that will come to me, but not all army?s come to me (Tau and IG jump to mind) so i had to think of a way to put pressure on the army?s that I cant out shoot. Thought about the scorpions and banshies. Scorpions are too slow (fleet makes the difference), and the banshies are only strength 3.

From Flavius, ?But once falcons start going down, things can go south really fast (and really completely).?

How often do they really go down?

Thanks again for the help, keep it comin'

Uriah

**Orlanth**

"As for why i would want the Reaper Exarch with his 2 strength 8 shots... IMHO it?s worth the extra points."

Sure the exarch is worth the price you pay for him, but the SQUAD is not. 4-8 reaper launcher shots is too much to let go to waste so your exarch can start taking the odd wound off a carnifex.

I have never got Warp Spiders to work for me, yet again I didnt tey hard because I dont like them, and eventually sold mine away. Still I find other far more tempting FA choices.

**tegeus-Cromis**

I say you should stick it out with the Warp Spiders. They've always served me well, and are almost universally useful--so long as the target has a T value, or AV12 or below on at least one facing, Warp Spiders can threaten it. The real weakness, IMO, is: the squad size. 6 Warp Spiders make for a decent utility unit with a small footprint. 8 Warp Spiders make for 200 VPs to your enemy. Trim it down.

**Flavius Infernus**

From Flavius, ?But once falcons start going down, things can go south really fast (and really completely).?

How often do they really go down?

Sometimes you can go a whole tournament without losing one. Other times they pop like eggshells all day. Usually they can take a tremendous pounding with no problem. But sometimes they just get grounded or blown up from a single lucky shot at the start of the game.

So because a mech assault list depends so much on the mobility of falcons, it has that element of uncertainty that it depends on. The walking list doesn't lose firepower/scoring that quickly on a flukey string of bad rolls.

**Uriah**

Thanks for the comments and the voting...It has already been a big help.

One of the questions that has been ringing around in my brain in regards to this topic is, which one would you rather not be across the table form in a tournament and why?

For my (Balanced) Nids...Mech scares the heck out of me because I don?t have enough antitank shooting to put down the falcons and the rest is hard to catch. My Genestealers wouldn?t like those mobile heavy flamers much either.

My Mech Tau...I feel like i have enough firepower and mobility to handle the Mech list, but my Mech Tau have always struggled with armies that can both shoot and assault well as the foot list can. So, I would rather not face the foot list.

My Blood Angels (Mech w/ Assault)...would much rather face the foot list where I could get into hand to hand and control the pace of the game. As opposed to the mech list were my opponent would keep me at arms length and control the tempo with his speed.

So for the armies I play...2 Would rather not play the mech list and 1 would rather not play the foot list.

So, which one would you rather not be across the table form in a tournament and why?

Uriah

**ColonelEllios**

I think both lists are strong. The second list is more solid, as infantry lists always are.

I completely disagree with those discouraging the Missile Launcher on the DR Exarch. I've run an Eldar ground-pounder list with two squads of Reapers for some time now, and I find that the missile launcher is always nice to have. Not only does it make the squad more consistent by adding two shots that hit and wound on twos; but when you really need the S8 to knock out a tank, once again the two shots hitting on twos usually guarantees you a damage roll against all but the heaviest of armor.

That, and they eat land speeders and rhinos alive, and any infantry unit in the game tends to just melt under their fire. Even terminators need to be worried about sheer number of wounds, and obliterators/broadsides hate those random krack missiles that sneak through...

**skyth**

Posted By Uriah on 10/19/2007 12:25 AM), 2 glances on an eldar skimmer, or any other armor 12 (Side armor),

Actually...Any armor except a monolith...Shining Spears use lance weapons, reducing AV to 12 anyways.

I have them in my list for tank-hunting along with counter-charge. And when they're not doing that, they can still contribute with a JSJ BS5 Shurkin cannon.

**LightningGus**

I think i would go with a mech army for tourneys. while i dont consider either of your armies really mechanized with only 1/2 the army in tanks. also the only difference between your mech and ground pounders is one falcon, in terms of vehicles. You may consider jetbikes and other similar quick units to be mechanized but i dont. I find the difference to mainly be that anti-infantry weapons and assault troopers can still hurt jetbikes/ spiders ect, while they can't really damage our tanks (unless you fight anti-infantry/anti-tank hybrid weapons like autocannons and assault cannons.)

That being said i would say you have a fast army and a slow army, not a mech army and a foot army.

I find fully mechanized armies to be very competitive. I set down my two wave serpents and three falcons (all laden with troops), and to my opponents dismay he realizes that his assault marines, heavy bolters, 1k sons, korne berzerkers, genestealers, tau fire warriors, a large element in almost any army, are nullified when fighting a fully mechanized army and will not see fighting unless I allow them too. And when things go as planned I will only allow them to fight when I am killing them. If you do go this approach, you almost NEED everything in a tank. If you have one unit of jetbikes or spiders they will need to hide extremely well, as all of your opponents anti infantry will be aiming for them, because that is all your enemy will have to shoot. You also need to keep your IC's from being the closest target, which can be slighty more difficult with only tanks to be in front of them (although tanks do still count).

This allows for great victory point denial, as well as a great offensive force that can focus down isolated parts of the field, hop back in the skimmers, or in the case of cc troops hop from combat to combat, without the troops taking much damage, then redeploy and do it again. You also gain a lot of offense with so many tank bound heavy weapons.
my skeleton list is: some hq on a bike, 2xharlies 1x dragons, 2x avengers in serpents, 3x falcons for 1500 ish. I don't even use it against friends anymore because its so unfair.

edit: clarity

**Uriah**

@ LightningGus, Thanks for your thoughts, I thought about going that direction, but I went "Semi Mech" (According to your definition) for balance. After playing Mech Tau for years I have learned that you can only hide about 3 skimmers on a normal board + Other smaller units (Crisis = Jet Bikes and Spiders). Having a large # of skimmers is great if you can hide them all or if you get the first turn (or Omega). I just don?t want to have to worry about that. Avengers are also only 1 template away from having a very bad day :-)

But then again the list I'm looking at running has its weaknesses as well (as you have already pointed out). So, I think it just comes down to personal preference.

However, If i were to run a list to overload my opponents heavy weapons It would be more like this...

Eldar Air Cavalry 1750

HQ (1)

Autarch (155) Shuriken Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Haywire Grenades, Forceshield, Jetbike, Reaper Launcher, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters.

Or

Yriel (155) Spear of Twilight etc.

Troop (5)

Dire Avengers x6 (72) Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.
-Wave Serpent (145) Spirit Stones, Star Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Dire Avengers x6 (72) Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.
-Wave Serpent (145) Spirit Stones, Star Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Dire Avengers x6 (72) Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.
-Wave Serpent (145) Spirit Stones, Star Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Dire Avengers x6 (72) Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.
-Wave Serpent (145) Spirit Stones, Star Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Dire Avengers x6 (72) Avenger Shuriken Catapults x6.
-Wave Serpent (145) Spirit Stones, Star Cannon, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Heavy (3)

Fire Prism (170) Halo Field, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Fire Prism (170) Halo Field, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

Fire Prism (170) Halo Field, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon Upgrade.

**LightningGus**

As long as you've considered the possibilities of an all tank mech army i wont try and convince you any further.

With that i can offer you some advice on your existing lists. For your mech army: i would say warpspiders are amazing. They have never failed me and can tackle tasks from busting tanks (of any variety if you shoot the right places...) killing marines, or decimating hordy units. I think you should equip your exarch with withdraw though. Also i would drop a warlock out of one of the bike squads in favor of upping it to 6 men and adding another cannon (if you can spare the points).

For your footy list: I would drop the two squads of 6 DAs in favor of one full squad of 10 with an exarch then you can choose tarpit DAs or dakka DAs from there.