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Hello,

Here is my shooty-oriented marines list.

It's designed to be a bit mobile (rhinos for tac squads) and versatile (in my local environment, lots of men, not tons of vehicles, so MLs instead of lascannons).

Here's the list with some comments at the end:

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 225 Pts)
4 Terminator Squad @ 225 Pts
Power Fist (x3); Storm Bolter (x3); Chain Fist (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Elite: Veteran Squad (6#, 158 Pts)
5 Veteran Squad @ 158 Pts
Bolter (x3); Meltagun (x1); Multi-Melta (x1); Infiltrate
1 Sergeant @ [48] Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Infiltrate; Terminator Honors

Troops: Scout Squad (5#, 65 Pts)
4 Scout Squad @ 65 Pts
Bolter (x4)
1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Bolter

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (5#, 120 Pts)
4 Assault Squad @ 120 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x2); Close Combat Weapon (x4); Plasma Pistol (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [22] Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol & CCW

HQ: Codicier (1#, 140 Pts)
1 Codicier @ 140 Pts
Force Weapon; Psychic Hood; Storm of the Emperor's Wrath
1 Artificer Armor @ [20] Pts
1 Jump Pack @ [20] Pts
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts

Troops: Tactical Squad (7#, 163 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 163 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Rhino @ [53] Pts
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (7#, 163 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 163 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Rhino @ [53] Pts
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (7#, 163 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 163 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Rhino @ [53] Pts
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

So, a rundown of my gameplan:

Terminators only have 1 AC because I only have on AC :( Their job is standard...DS and support one of my units by shooting the hell out of it.

Assault Squad + codicier is meant to be able to do damage on the turn they drop (Plasma pistols + storm) and then charge units for more damage.
codicier also lets me stop chaos and eldar powers. Force weapon = DDP (Dead Daemon Prince). Against some armies I fight I'll probably start them on the table behind rhinos.

Vet squad is meant to be a baby tankbuster unit that I can place for a side shot on a vehicle or charge in on hard targets. meltagun + powerfist let me charge hard units as well.

I've taken to using squads as mini suicide squads (I'm a horrible person, I know --don't tell the emporer, please ). Lay down some dakka on a unit (hence all bolters) or charge and tie up a unit. The scouts are there to distract and damage units for me early game.

speeders -- mobile ACs that support tacs and other units.

Ven Dreadnought -- more ACs, in a slightly harder shell than the speeders. Part of me wants to switch the venerable to a drop pod for more mobility, but I'm still undecided and I'm afraid of getting screwed in
I gave all the tac squads rhinos so that against assaulting, rushing armies I can reposition, and against shooty armies get some makeshift terrain. other than ml instead os las, standard fare.

I realize that I could make this a more standard SSAFH or drop pod, but wanted something that suits my playstyle a little more. Basically I like options. Every unit I've got currently has a few things that you could do with them, as opposed to rigidly defined role. I wanted to build an army with lots of decisions to make at every point (DS this unit? Set Vets for charge or as mini-devs? Scouts charging a unit or laying down dakka?) to maximize and build skill playing. And to be clear, I'm not saying that standard SM armies don't have options or decisions to make

So that's it...if you've made it this far, congratulations!


I hope I explained the list and its intentions clearly and welcome all critiques. Draw forth your flamers and purge!

Ok a few problems here.

The Codicier is weaksauce for stopping powers. You need the LD10 version.
Also, if he isn't on the table...he stops nothing. The Force Weapon might kill a Demon Prince...if you and your squad aren't annihilated by shooting first (likely).

The Vet squad...give it tank hunting and a lascannon, drop the rest...and it'll kill stuff. 5 man squads of marines don't charge anything 'hard' unless it's Tau or Grots.

Your assault squad is too few to really make a dent in anything either.

Personally I don't get your list, you have alot of Rhinos but no one in them. Why spend 50% of your unit cost on nothing but a lousy transport that will likely get blown up T1?

the plan was to move the guys in them to where I wanted to be. In the games I'd played with earlier versions I would use rhinos to move to a needed range or position. What I'm getting from you is that this plan would be useless, correct? I'm not being obtuse or challenging, but why not (again, honestly asking for your reasoning). I just wanted to get them mobile if needed.

I'll bump the codicier to epistolary. In terms of whether it's on the table, that's something I would decide on a game to game basis. If there were psykers across the table, I'd deploy them, and otherwise DS. What other power would you take with the Epistolary? I like Fear of the Darkness a lot, but see a lot of fearless units, so it seems like wasted points. Veil of Time or Might of Heroes?

So, I'm assuming you'll convince me to drop the rhinos and I can use those extra points for the epistolary, bump up the assault squad to 8 (including episotlary) and give my vets a lascannon. That leaves me with 105 spare points. What would you do with the remainder?

thanks for your comments thus far.

Rhinos, sadly, aren't really mobile. Every army has firepower enough to blow 2-4 of them to pieces each turn, at least the ones I've seen do. This is what I call 'bad' as you are not a Sisters army with cheap troops with lots of tools. You are just marines, and getting pinned in place or having to run through your own Rhino debris is a bad start--not to mention the models you might lose to being forced out of said Rhinos.

Setup a fire base, protect it with a IC or assault squad to discourage assaults; and bring either drop pods, termies, bikes, scouts, land raiders, and/or jump pack troops to provide mobility. Rhinos with tactical marines aren't the way to go about it.

Fear of the darkness is great in the Ultramarines. That's...about it, since they can cover double the distance. But against fearless troops or even high ld troops the effect is pretty useless since you have to be so close...which means it works once, then you get shot/assaulted so it doesn't work again.

Veil of time is great when the IC is alone. Might of heroes is really for when you want to sit outside a squad with a PF going into a MC, and make that PF sure to blow that MC away. Otherwise Might is not as good as Veil.

I'd get a chaplain if you are going to run the assault unit, it makes them quite a bit better. I'd also keep the Epistolary with Veil as a countercharge unit and let the chaplain take the assault unit to a glorious death, then Veil away anything that gets through them.

Thanks again for the input.

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 255 Pts)
4 Terminator Squad @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x2); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Elite: Veteran Squad (6#, 123 Pts)
5 Veteran Squad @ 123 Pts
Bolter (x4); Lascannon (x1); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW; Tank Hunters

Troops: Scout Squad (6#, 83 Pts)
5 Scout Squad @ 83 Pts
Bolter (x4); Heavy Bolter (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Bolter

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (7#, 164 Pts)
6 Assault Squad @ 164 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x6); Plasma Pistol (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [22] Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 113 Pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 105 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon
Extra Armour @ [5] Pts
Smoke Launcher @ [3] Pts

HQ: Epistolary (1#, 165 Pts)
1 Epistolary @ 165 Pts
Force Weapon; Veil of Time; Psychic Hood; Storm of the Emperor's Wrath
1 Artificer Armor @ [20] Pts
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts

HQ: Reclusiarch (1#, 106 Pts)
1 Reclusiarch @ 106 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Crozius Arcanum; Rosarius
1 Jump Pack @ [20] Pts
1 Rosarius @ [0] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1499

took venerable from the dreadnought and gave tank hunters to the terminators --as the vehicle numbers lessened from the abandonment of rhinos, figured the dreadnought becomes more of a target, and less able to stay on the table. I left it with EA and smoke launchers and that's it.

gave the terminators the extra AC, as there is really not a lot of reason for them to be without. I'll make the extra effort and get the AC arm I need. The terms should now be capable of fearsome anti-vehicle and anti-infantry fire (Even storm bolters can pen AV 10 on 6+, and ACs can glance AV 14 now), and generally be a pain in the butt to deal with. reserve rolls could be the death of me, so I'm thinking I might reserve DSing for when an army is more mobile than I am, and make them part of the firebase. I play cautious like this only because dice *hate* me.

Reclusiarch is running with the beefed up assault squad now.

epistolary is on the ground with the Tac marine core, giving me some beefed up counter assault and psyker defense.

I gave the scouts one more guy and a heavy bolter for more dakka. With infiltrate can set up the possibility for ten bolter shots + three HB shots. Can also tuck them away and use the HB for general anti-infantry pecking.

Vets now have tank hunter and a cannon --a str 10 lascannon should be fun to sling about.

I like these changes. I feel all the units have much more punch now. Whaddya think?

Only the dread is out of place. I'd give him venerable and 2 long range weapons, if you can. Extra armor too. He gets hit, and doesn't die...move him behind terrain. Then forward next turn, and fire again. Rinse, repeat.

Otherwise looks good...

got to play a game with the marines...some good stuff, though I got caught severely off guard with how dangerous the stealers were (obviously this game was against nids...) I revamped the list, to not make it just better against nids, but what I saw as weaknesses overall.

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 240 Pts)
4 Terminator Squad @ 240 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x2); Assault Cannon (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [40] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Elite: Veteran Squad (5#, 105 Pts)
4 Veteran Squad @ 105 Pts
Bolter (x3); Lascannon (x1); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [18] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW; Tank Hunters

Troops: Scout Squad (5#, 65 Pts)
4 Scout Squad @ 65 Pts
Bolter (x4)
1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Bolter

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (8#, 216 Pts)
7 Assault Squad @ 216 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x5); Close Combat Weapon (x7); Plasma Pistol (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [52] Pts
Jump Packs; Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

HQ: Epistolary (1#, 124 Pts)
1 Epistolary @ 124 Pts
Force Weapon; Fury of the Ancients; Psychic Hood; Storm of the Emperor's Wrath
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts

Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 150 Pts)
1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 150 Pts
Missile Launcher; Assault Cannon; Tank Hunters; Venerable; Extra Armor

Total Roster Cost: 1500
So...more shooty. I felt that I needed more bodies with guns, so I went from 3 to 4 tac squads.

fiddled around with the epistolarie's points some more -now he has fury of the ancients so he can do something other than squat at a distance. 1-3 s5 on multiple units seems decent, and anything that gets hurt by pinning is going to not like this at all.

giving the dread a missile launcher in addition to the AC for more long range punch. made him venerable with EA for extra survivability.

took out the reclusiarch, but keeping the assault marines. I'm kitting them into an MC/Vehicle hunter force, so I grabbed a powerfist. With the reclusiarch, I just felt a had too many points flying about that couldn't rely on any other part of the army for backup in CC. Against a CC oriented force (especially one that as a whole beats me handily in initiative, which would include eldar as well), I don't want to throw 1/5 of my army at a wall of crap that I wasn't going to kill. At the cheaper points, I don't mind using them to crash into a big nasty thing and take return fire possibly, but man...a reclusiarch, like a mind, is a terrible thing to waste.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be very happy with the decision to go missile launchers when the ork codex comes out...it was also handy against the stealers.

Stelek, wanted to say thanks again for your input and am welcome to any more comments you have on this , as well as anyone else's comments.

I'd swap the ven dreads AC for a TL Las. It's more pricey, but he really hammers vehicles with that TL @ S10.

Also, a jump pack Lib is very dangerous.

For 155 points you can give him a bolt pistol, fury, a jump pack, and veil of time. He can shoot and does alot of damage in CC.

Also, if you give the scout squad CC weapons and a missile launcher, they are very flexible (speed bump if infiltrate allowed, a tac squad if not).

Buddy of mine runs his scouts as crazy bastards, they do a real good job dying and slowing down crucial assaults against his firebase.

Oh and you're welcome. I like helping.

Bike > Jump Pack. You'd love that point of toughness. Maybe also give him some sort of invul. save and termi honor.

would the lib be hanging out by himself, or with the assault marines?

He can do either. It really depends if you think your assault marines need his help.

back again...treating this as a mini-"blog" to track the evolution of my army as I play and redesign/fine-tune the list (along with my playing of it).


So, is it me or is the Librarian the best "roleplayer" character in the vanilla codex? Toss a jump pack on the guy and he can FW out big critters, put infantry in a woodchipper, provide counter assault to your firebase...I love this guy, so I decided to commit another ~50 points to make a monster out of him. I gave him a halo, familiar, and term honors, and a bolt pistol to max out attacks. When paired up with my PF assault squad, I can pick a unit and destroy it cleanly and quickly.

Also pumped up the dread to a layout like you suggested Stelek -- TL las + missile launcher + ven + EA + tank hunter. More points, but much more punch.

to do this I had to let the vets go, which is fine since they were sort of underperforming anyways. 1 lascannon resulted in a lot of wasted shots since it was usually the only thing in the squad firing.

land speeders are awesome.

gave the scouts missile launcher -- I still love these guys. They are another "roleplaying" unit and their price point makes them perfect. I can tie up units or lay down fire from any angle I want.

here's the list. As always, C&C welcome.

BTW, this is my own chapter, named "The Hierophants".

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 255 Pts)
4 Terminator Squad @ 255 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x2); Assault Cannon (x2); Tank Hunters
1 Sergeant @ [43] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter; Tank Hunters

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 80 Pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 80 Pts
Heavy Bolter (x1); Assault Cannon (x1)

Troops: Scout Squad (5#, 75 Pts)
4 Scout Squad @ 75 Pts
Bolter (x3); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Bolter

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (7#, 194 Pts)
6 Assault Squad @ 194 Pts
Jump Packs; Frag Grenades; Bolt Pistol (x4); Close Combat Weapon (x6); Plasma Pistol (x2)
1 Sergeant @ [52] Pts
Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 110 Pts)
5 Tactical Squad @ 110 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)
1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCW

HQ: Epistolary (2#, 205 Pts)
1 Epistolary @ 205 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Force Weapon; Fury of the Ancients; Psychic Hood; Veil of Time
1 Familiar @ [10] Pts
1 Familiar @ [0] Pts
1 Iron Halo @ [25] Pts
1 Jump Pack @ [20] Pts
1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts
1 Terminator Honors @ [15] Pts

Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 170 Pts)
1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 170 Pts
Missile Launcher; Twin Linked Lascannon; Tank Hunters; Venerable; Extra Armor

Total Roster Cost: 1499