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Great week for non-dropping, non-tank guard!

I've got 4 short batreps to share, all using my new heavy weapons packed infantry based guard army. A lot of you are familiar with it since you guys helped me fix loopholes in it. Everyone who contributed in the tactics thread i created and in the army list thread I created are awesome!

So I went 2-1-1 this week, two games on friday and 2 on sunday. The games on friday were played with an inferior list I think. But not much different than my current list. It was a necessary step to finding what I needed to tweak. Here's what I played on sunday, and I won't make any changes based on the games that I played this week.

HSO flag (iron disc)
2x lascannon teams (light infantry)
2x autocannon teams

colonel-commisar ibram gaunt

JO mortar (iron disc)
2x heavy bolter plasma

JO mortar (iron disc)
3x heavy bolter grenade launcher

30x conscripts

JO mortar (iron disc)
3x lascannon teams (light infantry)

basilisk

For fridays games, I didn't have any doctrines, I ran mortar support squads instead of autocannon squads, and had autocannons on my JO squads, also went with the full 50 conscripts for that one.

Friday game 1. WIN Vehicle heavy non-dropping marines. I'll keep this one short. Omega cleanse. His list was marines in rhinos or razorbacks, walking dreads, and some tanks. As you can probably imagine, His list being mismatched so badly versus mine, coupled with his major disadvantage in mission type and level, made this one short.

Mortars rained on his single tac squad that was deployed at the start of the games, he opted to wait a couple turns until the majority of his reserves had arrived before he made any aggressive moves. once he had everyone he moved all of the tanks out and popped smoke. I wrecked all his transports despite the smoke, entangling those squads. Predators were potentially dangerous with the HB sponsons, but I had them shaken pretty constantly. The lone tac squad ended up spending two rounds pinned by mortars. I got the dreadnoughts last. His tanks and dreads accounted for two lascannon squads, and that was about all i lost. My opponent was a good friend of mine. His list was quite soft, he may or may not have known that. Well he does now, I learned a lot about my deployment phase, but whether or not my list will stand up to tougher competition remains to be seen.

Friday game 2. LOSS Worst case scenario for my list I think. Drop podding space wolves with tanks. It looked like..

ven dread pod
rune priest bike force weapon
wolf priest jump pack

wolf scouts meltagun plasma pistols

2x10 grey hunters plasma fist pod

6 blood claws jump pack fist
2x speeder tornados

LREx
pred las/HB
whirlwind

Got a gamma take and hold. I made a massive deployment error, that made this a total blowout. But looking at what I was up against, I can't really see any way to squeeze anything more than a tie out of it.

He deployed all of his tanks very far away from my heavy support lascannons (before they had purchased light infantry) and I used my 6 lascannons that are part of the HQ platoon way too aggressively. I lined them up on the far side of the table away from the other lascannons, in an effort to take out one or both of his tanks on turn one. As you could imagine, I lost all 6 of them immediately, and 2 heavy bolter squads that I sent over to rescue them from speeders were cut down just as fast.

The conscripts were deployed in an attempt to stop his scouts, They did contain them very well, but not before they snuck in the kill shot on my basilisk. Without the basilisk, I just started getting taken apart by the whirlwind. I was still a threat all the way to the end of the game. I still had nine lascannons when the bell tolled. He was forced to hide behind his drop pods all game and snipe shots. His dread was DOA when his pod landed, I wasn't completely owned, but handily beaten. Losing the 2 lascannon squads and 2 heavy bolter squads without forcing him to expose his armor to the rest of my shooting was a total rookie blunder. I'm looking forward to a rematch with the more tweaked list, and a better head on my shoulders.

Also I am keeping in mind that as far as drop lists go, it doesn't get much worse than that. True grit and counterattack just ate up my conscripts when they charged the closest drop grey hunters. No terminators meant my conscripts didn't have a great target for their patented dogpile. Wolf scouts wrecking my bassy was a blow that would be hard to overcome. And the very under-rated whirlwind being in the list to boot.

On the list. I think 50 conscripts at 1750 is unnecessary. I also like mortars, but was shocked at how lame the "battery" rules were. If you got a miss on the ranging shot, it was usually wildly off, any hits would be hard pressed to range back to the original unit (usually a tightly packed unit hiding behind a vehicle or drop pod). A single mortar shot that is a hit was netting me 2 or 3 fulls and 3 or 4 partials. Any subsequent hits were netting me a maximum of 1 partial, since you have to touch the edges together, not just overlap like they should. So single mortars are good for what I'm looking for. Junior officers and any leadership battery are perfect to hold them. They didn't completely blow me away, and can be cut for points. But in 2 games versus marines I killed 6, and pinned a unit twice. I wanted to add more autocannons, and protect my leadership better, so an easy switch was to put the mortars on the officers, and put the autocannons on the support teams.

Sundays games

sunday game 1 Nids TIE (I won by 46 VPs)

his list was like...

flyrant double devs scream

tyrant venom cannon and devs scream

2x dakkafex

30 spinegaunts

3x10 scuttling genestealers

1 ravener

3 screaming zoes

2x gun fex venom cannon devs

by far the most educational and most fun game of the week. i wouldn't have pulled it of without the guidance of you dakka-ites in the tactics section. This game was all about guard close combat. Yes thats right. Some of you guys already know about guard close combat, but some of you will probably be in total disbelief when I say that i killed 2.5 of the 3 genestealers units in hand to hand. there was so much learning going on my head was hurting. But I had a huge grin on my face after I downed the first stealer unit. My opponent was a good friend and testing partner and we walked each other through the combats so he could learn more about his nids (which aren't his main army) while I learned how to 'counter-assault'. Anyway, here is the game...

Omega secure and control... I got a break on escalation, but secure and control? I would call that a disadvantage versus nids

He won first turn and despite concealment, opted to go first, which I think is the right call. The downside to scuttling is its far easier to spot your guy on turn 1 if its dawn or concealment. Turn one he charges my conscripts with a genestealer unit, and gets some good fleets on the gaunts and other stealers. My turn 1 I whittle down one of the stealer units, kill a Zoe and then fix bayonets. I had moved a heavy bolter squad out as close as I could get to the full sized stealer unit, and spread them as far as I could in 'red-rover' formation. If I did it right, it would be game over.

turn 2. Well he had enough movement with his genestealer unit to slip just past my screening guardsmen unit, got another good fleet and was able to charge another heavy bolter squad, one that was too close to my support squads to sacrifice. his flyrant showed up and annihilated a lascannon squad, some dakkafexes also showed up but were out of range.

my turn 2, this is where I used to give up as a guard player, and where many guard lists just completely fall apart. As the old saying goes, quantity has a quality all of its own. I have enough bodies in this list to actually win this game. I plugged 2 10 man squads into the stealer unit that charged the 3rd heavy bolter unit, and moved another one in position to assist the conscripts next turn. And i STILL had 2 10 man heavy bolter squads holding the line, and all but the one lost lascannon units ready to fire and with good LOS to large targets.

Stelek has referred to what happens next as the "heave ho" and I was using that phrase all night. i won't give you a turn by turn analysis of those close combats, but if we just fast forward to the game end, I lost a little over half of what what he lost in points in those combats. A good leadership bubble, with rerolls and mass bodies can just CRUSH enemy assaulters. Nothing strange happened with the dice. They seemed to fall in the normal range of expectation. having a large supply of 10 LD9 rerollable woundbags for 80 points a pop was an awesome advantage.

Turn 3 I started putting wounds on his MCs, and he started whittling away at the support squads. It seemed like we were both going to just grind each other down. Unfortunately we hit the 2 hour mark maybe 5 minutes after we began turn 3 so we agreed to make turn 3 the final turn. Had we decided to just play an untimed game, it would have continued to be close, but all of his non-MCs were tied up in unwinnable CCs or dead, and I had 2x10 man squads ready to charge any dakkafexes that weren't dying fast enough. Both tyrants had only a single wound left. And I had 5 lascannons still. I was however in scream range, but it wasn't a full scream, probably a -1 by the time i charged.

Thanks guys for helping me understand that you don't need a dedicated counter assault unit. Gaunt, some conscripts and some bodies can do that job nicely.

sunday game 2.. this is the one I was waiting for... eldar WIN

My friend knew I was testing, and i think he may have purposely dialed back on his list a bit. I wish he hadn't. It was no contest and i would have liked to see a couple units that are still intimidating me with this list

he ran

bike autarch

bike farseer

bike warlocks (would have been infinitely scarier as shining spears)

2x pathfinders

2x guardians in wave serpents (blatantly soft!!!)

warp spiders

2x falcon

Bike warlocks are very good in many matchups. Having a destructor + bs4 TL shurikat unit that literally cannot die is good. Unless your opponent has gaunt + 30 conscripts. Hit and run would have owned me pretty bad, but he brought it for all comers.

gamma take and hold... My deployment was pretty spot on. I stayed far away from any LOS feature on the table. Kept all my support squads close together. The more valuable lascannons in the furthest back and thus safest place.

I got first turn which made it 10x worse. bassy penned and blew up a falcon, and my lascannons got both waveserpents. Moved out my conscripts keeping in mind all of the different places he would want to move his warlocks, and where he may deep strike his warp spiders. My spread was really good. he could move his bikes up and shoot the conscripts and then jump back, but if he boosted over me or went around terrain, he would still be in charge range of either the conscripts or some other brave infantry unit ready to latch on to their ankles and hold them in place. Dumped all my anti infantry into the pathfinder units, killing one off and halving another. Brought a guardian unit to below half. In an effort to shake the other falcon, I blew it up. The warlocks just couldn't take it anymore and charged the much smaller conscript unit which had been whittled down a lot by the warlocks and by the guardian scatter lasers. I charged with two 10 man squads up to back them up, and got a leadership bubble over to them to support them. managed to kill a single warlock, which was a miracle in and of itself. Warp spiders could not find a remotely useful place to deepstrike, so they had to pick one quite far from my bassy, they scattered away from me and were summarily earthshaken.

He conceded defeat to me which I graciously accepted instead of tabling everything but the warlocks. it was very cathartic to take a crap on eldar. They had been completely ruling any guard list I made. I know there are eldar lists out there that can rock my world, but any one of these lists that are made to deny VPs or tailored to kill marines is going to be undermatched versus this guard list.


Thanks for reading, I have a lot more learning to do with this list. And also, don't get me wrong, I don't somehow think its a top-tier list that will smoke people in a no-comp tourney. I was just looking for something to play in guard that performed better than tanks with last chancers and dropping veterans which I feel only beats people who haven't seen it before. I'm just glad i can play something that looks good on the table is unique (kinda) and performs adequately. Even against people that know your "trick".

When i get better with it, i will be able to more clearly see this lists limitations, but until then, Im just happy for the guard

Shep wrote:it was very cathartic to take a crap on eldar.

QFT

Great reports, and very well done in some intense games. Honestly guard scare me more because of the mass of bodies than the mass of guns, though my FLGS is pretty lite on the groundpounder humies at the moment, so my Chaos haven't gone up against them yet ...

For those non Guard players, what's the upshot of taking Gaunt in game?

- Salvage

gaunt is an independent character that makes any unit he joins fearless. he isn't a slouch in close combat either, but usually you wrap some bodies around him so you can stay fearless as long as possible.

he also projects a leadership 10 bubble 12" if not in CC.

Shep wrote:gaunt is an independent character that makes any unit he joins fearless. he isn't a slouch in close combat either, but usually you wrap some bodies around him so you can stay fearless as long as possible.

he also projects a leadership 10 bubble 12" if not in CC.

I prefer a Cannoness with Book of St. Lucius for an UNMODIFIABLE leadership 10. Psychic Scream, Fear of the Darkness, all worthless. Leadership bubble is only 6" though but with 2 Faith points to play with and (if you take it) a Strength 5 Power Weapon she's better at CC than Gaunt.

Nice reports though, I think your list is pretty strong. I still like Cameleoline to help my Lascannon teams survive but other than that it looks good.

Yeah canoness is very awesome too. I love that she can get invulenrable if she gets into trouble. she is a bit pricy. and no fearlessness. If it was a comp tourney she may be the better bet as she isn't a special character.

I really want cameleoline. My models are all vostroyan with rubble from the cities of death set. I have them painted with red coats and shiny gold armor. In your experience is something like that a problem? If I take cameleoline and keep my models painted with absolutely no camo at all on them, does that become an issue for my opponents at a tourney? Or even at an LGS?

if it is then i think I can live with not taking it, but I'd love to find out that most people aren't ball-breakers when it comes to doctrines and wysiwyg

thanks for the kind words

Shep wrote:I really want cameleoline. My models are all vostroyan with rubble from the cities of death set. I have them painted with red coats and shiny gold armor. In your experience is something like that a problem? If I take cameleoline and keep my models painted with absolutely no camo at all on them, does that become an issue for my opponents at a tourney? Or even at an LGS?

if it is then i think I can live with not taking it, but I'd love to find out that most people aren't ball-breakers when it comes to doctrines and wysiwyg

Unfortunately it is hard to give a general answer here. Since you actually took the time to model their bases in an urban rubble fashion I would be OK with rationalizing their skilled movement through terrain as an adquate substitution for "camo" gear. The heavy bolter teams in these pictures certainly visually seem to know how to hide in rubble: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/CoD/painting/vostroyan5th/6.htm

As an aside, I don't have the Codex on me, but isn't camo one of the equipment doctrines that must be taken by all applicable Guard infantry units if selected? That would be about a 160 point hit on your list-certainly doable but still expensive. If you take it and the basing/rationale is consistent, then I'd be quite surprised to hear objections.

Your batrep has made me think there may yet be hope for the guard. Maybye one day I'll restart guard as an army of it's own until then I have some traitor guard to get my hands on, then nurgle-fy them. Also great games played my man.

Glad to see things worked out.

Space Wolves are truly a pain to deal with.

Personally if my tarpit was intact, I'd sit there and exchange rapid fire with a unit of SW. They might rip you to shreds with bolters, but you can at least get 2 shots from everyone at him on the turn you walk up. If he shoots you, you've tarpitted his unit. If he charges you, he's still tarpitted. Might be a good idea to charge after you rapid fire him once, but I'm sure the look on his face of 60 rapid fire flashlights will be well worth it.