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I have been interested in making a marine list from the planet Tallarn. As a desert force I decided there would be some major restrictions with the army selection. No unmounted power armor, no terminators, no dreads, no skimmers, no jump packs. I figured a desert force would consist of light infantry supported by long range armored support with bikes for mobility. The whole infantry contingent infiltrates. The snipers find good cover and provide fire support, the bolter scouts get to objectives and hold them down with accurate sustained small arms fire. the bp/ccw scouts forge forward to bring the fight to the enemy or help the bolter units hold objectives. The bikes run about shooting and assaulting where they can as support units that can redeploy quickly. Finally the armor sits in cover with good fields of fire and provides heavy cover fire both against infantry and tanks.

At least thats the plan. Please c&c. Thanks in advance.

HQ

Force Commander
-Iron Halo
-Bike
-Bolt Pistol
-Power Fist
-Terminator Honours
-171

HQ Total: 171

Troops

10 Scouts
-8 Sniper Rifles
-Missile Launcher
-Sarge with Sniper Rifle
-185

10 Scouts
-8 Sniper Rifles
-Missile Launcher
-Sarge with Sniper Rifle
-185

10 Scouts
-8 Bolters
-Heavy Bolter
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
-163

10 Scouts
-8 Bolters
-Heavy Bolter
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
-163

10 Scouts
-9 Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
-Frags
-167

10 Scouts
-9 Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
-Frags
-167

Troop Total: 1030

Fast Attack

3 Bikes
-2 Plasma Guns
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
-147

4 Bikes
-2 Plasma Guns
-Vet Sarge with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
-165

Fast Attack Total: 312

Heavy Support

Whirlwind
-85

Predator Destructor
-Lascannon Sponsons
-125

Predator Destructor
-Lascannon Sponsons
-125

Heavy Support Total: 335

Army Total: 1848
Model Total: 71

way too many scouts, not enough real marines, they'll be mowed down way faster than that many marines. also i don't get the point of the bikes. what are they for? close combat? mobile shooting platforms? i just don't see them as doing anything here really.

also where is the commander going? is he gonna join a unit of scouts, or just sit alone? because then he's just a major waste of points

I would drop the Scouts for 6x man squads of marines. Throw in the plasma and lascannon.

Fast attack bikes are fun, but they cost alot of points and alot of money. I'd throw in a land speeder squadron in their place, or maybe an assault squad.

As far as the commander, a chaplain on a bike is deadly. If not, then I'd just use a standard commander to counter-charge anything that ties up your marines.

The bikes are for mobile shooting and close combat support that can redeploy quickly. The master goes in one of the bike units as he is riding a bike himself. I figured that would be obvious. Did you read the explanation of WHY I don't have 6x6 las/plas squads? The idea is a light infantry army supported by long range heavy vehicle fire. Since the army infiltrates for the most part I figure they will spend most of there time in cover making them more survivable than one would think I imagine. Yes if they got caught out in the open the 4+ save could very well get them killed. But they shouldn't be in the open that much.

Basically Im trying something new. Im sick of seeing 6 man las/plas squads and speeders. I figured I would try to limit myself to choices in the army that would make me have to think when I played rather than point my army at the enemy and then fall asleep as it plays itself.

i missed the bike in his wargear. my bad!

i don't like the 6-10 man las/plas squads either. IMO i'd take some plas, heavy bolter squads in rhino's. your scounts may have infiltrate but that won't be a big enough benefit. my friend used to use an all infiltrating marine army (alpha legion under that last chaos book edition) and they lost every game. it just isn't really that scary of a tactic, especially with scouts. they have T4 but they die in droves due to their armor. basically i think you need som marine units in there. you may not have as many models, but they do so much more damage to the enemy

The OP clearly wants to make a Scout army; what's the point of replying that all the Scouts should be swapped out for Tac Marines? That's like telling someone who wants footslogging Eldar to add three Falcons and put everything else in a Serpent.

I say go for it, just know what you're getting into (and I think you do). It should be obvious that this army will be handicapped compared to a conventional SM force, but that's what you want, isn't it?

Your Scout squads seem fine for what they are, but the bikes are kind of strange. BP/CCW Vet Sarge in the 4-man bike squad? What ever for? Might as well leave him as a normal Sgt instead. Also, if you're going to give one bike squad a PF, it seems logical to make it the one with more, not fewer, ablative bodies.

A similarly kitted MoS would serve you better than the Master IMO. You'd basically be trading the re-roll, which you don't really need with all those Vet Sgts, for Litanies and a PW. A good deal if you ask me.

Destructors sound fine for the role you envision for them, but I think they may disappoint in practice. You cannot always get good cover and a good firing lane; the moment you need to mvoe to take a shot, their effectiveness is severely diminished.

I did want to limit some of the effectiveness by bringing scouts instead of regular tac marines. I wanted a power fist in the 4 man bike squad but couldn't find the points for it. I might recalculate to give him one. Im hoping the infiltrating ability will help make up for the lack of mobility provided by a transport. If they can infiltrate into good positions they wont have to spend so much time handing out in dead mans land. Also in 5th ed with the force march rule they might be able to fleet instead of shooting which I imagine will let them get to and set up supportive positions. I know that playing 40k and using marine scouts is akin to playing fantasy and using dark elves but Im willing to give it a try.

Silverwarrior88 wrote:I would drop the Scouts for 6x man squads of marines. Throw in the plasma and lascannon.

Fast attack bikes are fun, but they cost alot of points and alot of money. I'd throw in a land speeder squadron in their place, or maybe an assault squad.

As far as the commander, a chaplain on a bike is deadly. If not, then I'd just use a standard commander to counter-charge anything that ties up your marines.

I yes, how very inventive,..... 6 man las/plas squads.

your suggestions change his entire list,.... why didn't you just post your list and tell him that his was no good and that he should use yours.

Mate, having a missile launcher in the middle of the sniper squads is the most expensive frag launcher of all time. Either the unit is wasting 9! sniper shots to shoot a tank, or it is paying 20 points for a really nice S4 AP6? blast weapon. Maybe swap it out for a HB? Especially if the scouts are infiltrating and so should be in range from the get go.

So switch the heavy bolters from the bolter squads and the missile launchers from the sniper squads around? That way at least I wont be wasting sniper shots? Or just heavy bolters in each and rely on the tanks for anti tank firepower?

Well you could drop the missile launcher squads down to 5 men. But also remember, a missile launcher is still much better at killing a marine than a heavy bolter, so shooting at marines is hardly a waste.

-Leo037

Warboss Niblet:

I wanted a power fist in the 4 man bike squad but couldn't find the points for it. I might recalculate to give him one.

Even if you can't squeeze in an extra fist, reshuffle the ones you do have. If you only have one PF to share between a 3-man and a 4-man squad, give it to the four men.

lords2001:

Mate, having a missile launcher in the middle of the sniper squads is the most expensive frag launcher of all time. Either the unit is wasting 9! sniper shots to shoot a tank, or it is paying 20 points for a really nice S4 AP6? blast weapon.

Why, because sniper rifles are oh-so-good at killing infantry? They're not. In fact, they suck. The only reason to take snipers is if you anticipate facing MCs, and the ML is a good complement for that.

I don't play marines, but I've often wondered why they didn't take scouts more often. The 4+ save is significantly worse than a 3+, but not that much against light arms fire, and insignificantly different against heavy weapons. Their cheaper points and better choices for deployment make them a more interesting, and tactically flexible unit in my opinion. Give them a shot. If you're a good player, you should be able to beat most of the meat and potato 13 year-old marine players (40-50% of 40ks gaming community) that run all min-max 3+ marines anyway. Looks good, have fun and kick ass.

Bastirous666 wrote:way too many scouts, not enough real marines, they'll be mowed down way faster than that many marines. also i don't get the point of the bikes. what are they for? close combat? mobile shooting platforms? i just don't see them as doing anything here really.

also where is the commander going? is he gonna join a unit of scouts, or just sit alone? because then he's just a major waste of points

Well, those scouts, while less durable, save him a lot of points and can infiltrate. What are they there for? All the same reasons regular marines are, but can be more tactically deployed and have different weapon lay-outs (AND can also get 2x CC weapons...).

Where is the commander going? That's quite obvious if you read and see that he has a bike, and conveniently one of the bike squads has a spot open for just that man.

yes i already stated above that i missed his bike the first time i looked at the list. tisk tisk, my bad, i know