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After only a couple games with him, I've found that my warpstone star assassin is really not working in 2k games. In 1k games he rocks and can take out anything I can manage to skitterleap him behind (I play Eshin, but not all skirmishers), but in 2k getting a skitter off is a rarity and even then he can get picked out fairly easily when off on his own.

So now I want something useful, like a BSB. I'd like some suggestion on what's best to give the guy, as there are a lot of good options with all the different banners and items. Right now I'm starting with the basic warbanner, for a hearty +2 CR from the back rank of a 30-strong clanrat block. Other thoughts were the umbranner or even fear banner, or crown of regen or other kit for the character himself. Points aren't really an issue, have as much as 200 points between him and 2 rat swarms.

Or you could convince me that taking an assassin for the unit is in fact a better option :S

- Salvage

In my scaven army (hoard scaven usually) I tend to give him the 'no shoothing' banner (forget name)

The only armies that give me serious problems are armies that blow big holes in my lines before I get to them and this can make a huge difference in those games. In all other games he is just an extra +1 combat res from the back ranks.

The Umbranner (4+ ward vs shooting S4 and less) is the one I see used most often in batreps, and it would certainly be useful. I've got 6 points free in the list currently, so can slide in the 5 points to upgrade the warbanner to the save banner. If I'm not fighting armies with <S5 shooting then they've got magic missiles for the pain :(

The nice thing about the warbanner though is the 7 static CR from that big block

- Salvage>

Not that one.
The expensive one that says -2 to shooting rolls, warmachines need a 4+ to shoot that turn

Oooooh "storm banner" or something like that. My skaven are shaping up to be about 1/3 shooty, 1/3 horde, 1/3 killy support, so I'd kinda like to shoot my own jezzails and ratters as well as not get hit by the enemy. With the number of dwarfs starting up in my area though maybe I should contemplate ol' 75 point stormy myself ... :S

- Salvage

I always liked that "swarm" banner, forget the exact name, but it doubles the outnumber bonus to 2. Since I usually take at least several really big blocks (30+ or so), getting that extra on the outnumber bonus is nice. I think it works out to more CR. Banner+banner+warbanner is 3, Banner+banner+2 for outnumber is 4. B)

Actually I can't help but think warbanner is better at all times, unless you really need 5 points.

Banner + BSB + warbanner + outnumber = 4
Banner + BSB + 2x outnumber = 4

Banner + BSB + warbanner = 3
Banner + BSB = 2

In cases where you don't actually outnumber - SHOCK! HORROR! - the warbanner still gives its bonus, while the swarm banner does nothing. Yet when you outnumber the warbanner unit still gets the usual +1, so works out the same.

- Salvage

You're right there! How about the best of both worlds, give the swarm banner to a unit that can take a banner (Storm Vermin) and stick the BSB in there? B)

I dunno...if I see a skaven BSB, guess who's going to get some marchblock/waywatcher/warhawk rider lovin'. As such, I'd vote for a banner which helps your entire army.

Dude, you will never get a guy to go in there and kill the bsb in the normal ways. Scaven can move their bsb to the back rank on either side making it very hard to catch the guy. Also, they have LOTS of backup in the area.
Marchblocking is also usually tough as the primary marchblocking troops are bait for ratling guns.

Sure, but the unit will still panic and pumping enough bow shots into it will get it to run. Similarly, there should be enough firepower/skirmishing warmachine hunters in most lists to take out those ratling guns.

Maybe I'm over estimating my abilities to panic units/marchblock, but the point remains: most people will see a BSB and avoid the unit or kill the BSB, so the best application is either a durable break reducer or a fragile and carefully guarded asset to the army, rather than the unit.

Etherdude wrote:... the best application is either a durable break reducer or a fragile and carefully guarded asset to the army, rather than the unit.

So what do you suggest Ether? Run the BSB naked, or with the storm banner, or with some magic item protection?

- Salvage

I'd vote cheap and naked. That way, you can afford another 40 (!) slaves instead of the storm banner, and those 2 units should net you more los reduction/casualty absorption or flanking potential without hampering your own shooting (which you say you have a good amount of). Because of the lead from the back rule which cypher mentioned and the sheer number of units which you can hide him in, your opponent will have to try really hard to kill that ~100 point rat. Long story short: take him naked for some ld 10 rerollable break tests; slave tarpits ftw!

The best battle standard bearer........ is an extra warlock engineer. As in, a good BSB for skaven=no BSB for skaven.

Still tinkering with the ~100 point BSB build for my army, particularly once I was thinking about his offensive capabilities. A chieftain's stats aren't totally abysmal ...

I currently have foul pendant penciled in, but still consider umbranner or now the languisher if I want to hit something that charges him. I do have 2 skitterleap chances though, so now contemplating more killy propositions.

The other kill character in the army is the fellblade master assassin, was wondering if getting another blade in their somewhere would be good. Got a total of 112 points for this dude.

- Salvage