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I've been having problems for a long time with my base coat flaking off of my models. Originally, the number of metal models in my army was small enough and I hadn't the skill or ambition to paint them well enough to be worried about it. But now that I'm starting to do things like inking, drybrushing and highlighting, I'm putting a lot of effort into my models. Also, being that I now play WHFB in addition to 40k, I have a lot more metal models in my collection. It just pains me to no end to see a model I've spent 1-2 hrs on giving the best paintjob I can muster, only to see it get mussed up from no noticeable source.. I swear, I must have imps that sneak in while I'm out and scour my models with steel wire brushes...

after all your model preparation and before you apply the first undercoat, give each model a wash in hot soapy water to get rid of oil, moulding release lubricant, and any other gunge - that will help paint stick better

the other issue is storage - are your models rattling around together and bashing each others' paintwork, or are they safely stored in inidividual foam-lined compartments?

did you bother to wash you models when you got them? there is sometimes a thin film of mold release still on the GW models. I always wash all mine metal or plastic in a quick sink of dishwater, let dry and then trim and cut to fit.

Clean models thorroughly, base with a tough spray primer (automobile paint etc), use hardwearing paint brands (GW paint was good for this, not sure about the latest generation), varnish, and refrain from gaming with your minis.

Here's what my established operation has been for base coating:
1-Examine the model for and clean off any vents and flashing
2-Soak the model in some warm soapy water for a short period
3-Scrub the model all over with an old toothbrush and rinse off
4-Let the model dry fully
5-Spray primer from 8-10 inches away, using slow, even passes that start before the model and end past it.
6-Let the model dry fully and paint any missed areas by hand.

Afterwards, I start painting and sometimes it seems as if the basecoat rubs off on my hands as I work.. Also, in case it matters I use GW's Chaos Black spray primer.

Jazz is for Losers wrote:Clean models thorroughly, base with a tough spray primer (automobile paint etc), use hardwearing paint brands (GW paint was good for this, not sure about the latest generation), varnish, and refrain from gaming with your minis.

Erm.. that's kinda been half the point of me painting them, so I CAN use them for gaming. Lol

I have never washed a metal miniature before painting. Resin models yes. Metal minis, no. I make a habit of Priming metal and plastic models. I use Armory Black Primer or another metal primer. like automotive primer. I have no problems with flaking.

I used the new GW chaos black spray paint and I have had problems with that flaking and chipping. When I first started painting and had no idea what I was doing I would just brush on a base coat of GW paints. It almost always chipped or flaked later on.

To try and save your painted minis try sealing them with a clear coat spray or brush on Ard Coat from GW.

I've been using 'Ard Coat for my space marines' power armor. (yes, I know.. that's like mentioning you're against the death penalty while talking to a room full of Texans). I like the look and it does seem to preserve the paint job well enough. I just don't like my fantasy models being shiny..

Everything said here is great advice, wash your minis before you paint and seal them afterwards are the most important IMHO.


The one other thing I'd add is that one benefit of doing many layers of highlighting on your models is that any 'points' on your models tend to get the most highlights, so by the time the model is finished if you've done a good job of highlighting those 'tips' should have quite a few layers of paint on them.

So besides helping to make your paintjobs look better, detailed highlighting also helps to make sure the paint doesn't flake off from use.

Most of the flaking issues are occuring WHILE I'm painting.. For example, while I was painting my Slann's podium, I finished painting a coat of scorched brown on all the vines before I went to another color for highlighting and whatnot. Once I finished the backside, I flipped it over and saw that the brown and the black base coat had rubbed completely off from no wear outside of me handling it while I was painting. I know my wife claims my job has given me rough skin.. but that's too much to be contributing to callouses..

'touch-dry' paint and 'so dry it won't rub off if you touch it' paint are two different things. Personally I wouldn't touch a painted surface for several hours

Another tip is to stick your figures onto temporary painting bases. Oversize thick cardboard strips are good for doing lots of similar figures, such as rows of Ancients.

For individual "character" figures I Blu-tac them to a screw cap bottle top, then screw the cap on the bottle (it's an aspirin kind of bottle) for easy handling. I have a half-dozen tops so I can work on 6 figures at the same time.

Either way you get an oversize base that is comfortable to handle and keeps your fingers off the figures.

I recommend automotive primer for metal especially. Just make certain you do a few light passes instead of one heavy coat.

Also, putting your minis on a temporary block to hold while you paint is an excellent idea. I have a film canister filled with washers with one glued on top I use. Since I put magnets in the bases of my minis, they stick to that, then I just pop them off and let them dry while I use the next one.

Another good time saving device is assembly line painting. Even if you are doing a unique character, keep a few other models handy that are taking the same colors. When you get done painting your character's cloak red, set it aside and paint the red on all the other figures. Then switch colors. Not only will this get some paint on your other figures and make for more efficient use of poured/mixed paint and time, but it will help fight the temptation to paint other parts of the mini while it might still be a bit wet.

Lastly, if you get done with some really important or difficult detail work, let it dry and then seal it. You can always paint over sealer, and a bit of a coat will help protect the work you have already done, as well as keep accidental slips from bonding immediately, allowing for clean up with a wet brush.

always hold your miniature by its base or mount it on a temporary base. if you're holding it by the parts you just painted it WILL flake off from handling. even if you're not calloused the ridges on your fingers are enough.

NaZ

Well, that explains a lot, lol!

There is one more thing. Use Primer rather than spraypaint on metal minis.

Primer is designed to keep paint on metal, while spray paint has a much greater tendency to rub off and chip.

If the problem is that the paint is flaking off of the character as you paint it, designate a spot to hold the mini. Usually this is the base, but if it can't be (some complex minis are easier to grab in other places) then grab the designated spot and paint said spot last of all. That way, you minimize the trouble you'll have when repainting chipped areas.

I have to agree with odin here.

primer is VERY different from black spraypaint. each paint manufacturer (citadel, krylon, folk art, reaper, etc) knows the chemical makeup of their paints

when a chemist concocts a primer.. it is designed with 3 properties in mind:
ability to bond with the material being primered
color/opacity
ability to bond with the paints to be used with the primer

in general its better to use whatever primer the manufacturer of your paints makes just for the best shot of chemical compatibility. same goes for spray on varnish products.. the wrong ones can actually strip the paint off your miniature or cause it to run (worst case it can actually melt your models)

hope that helps

NaZ

I think you only need to worry about the wrong primer melting plastic models (and this would usually only be a problem with automotive primer).


I've heard people swear by different forms of primer (as we've seen on this thread) and that's all fine and good.

But I will say that I have heard from Evan, one of the staff at Battlefront, that miniature "primers" are rarely more than glorified spray paint. He also told me that automotive primers are really unnecessary on miniatures (and he has experience in the automotive industry). According to him, automotive primers are designed for large flat areas (like you find on cars!) and don't really make much difference on miniatures, and can actually damage plastic miniatures. For the record, he's said he uses Humbrol Black 33, 50/50 mixed with "turps", with Vallejo paint over that. See this thread.

I've just been brushing on watered down black paint as an undercoat. It gives a very smooth finish, is very fast, and I don't have to worry about the weather.

After all my painting is done, I gloss varnish my minis, and then matte varnish them. I haven't had any problems to speak of on minis I've painted this way. I think I've had to touch up a grand total of one spot on one miniature so far, and that sort of normal wear and tear happens while gaming.

That said, paint will rub off while you're painting if you're touching the miniature a lot before the paint is totally dry and before you varnish. I was having problems with that, but now I do like many others have said and put a temporary base on my WIP stuff. As long as you avoid touching your miniature as much as possible while painting (no matter what primer you use), you shouldn't have too many problems.

So where would I go about finding blue tac at?

At pretty much any store in the world that sells office supplies... its primary use is to hold posters onto a wall.

yeah washing is important. So many people skip this step. Myself included. I usually only wash forgeworld models.

I only wash resin.
I've never had a problem with plastics or metals due to mold release compound.
YMMV.

Everything I'm going to say -or most of it, at least- has been said here already, but not necessarily as a group.
This is what *I* do.

Prime mini after assembly with AUTO PRIMER. Sandable, NON expanding.
If you use expanding primer, you might notice that some of the details in your model seem to have "suddenly" disappeared.

I paint with vallejo paints. If you don't thin them TOO much, they're quite hearty.

Almost everyone, including me, says you should hold the mini by the base and never... EVER... touch a painted part.
That being said, I hold my minis however the heck I want. Just be certain you're GENTLE about it & you'll figure it out.
I tend to hold the base as much as possible, but rest the mini against my hand for control & stability.

Don't paint too thick. Don't paint too thin. Thin will rub off, thick will peel.

Seal your model periodically (THIN coats).
Many will argue that point.

I paint a few key areas, then matte seal it. Why?
If I accidentally slop a little paint on a "finished" area, I can clean it easily without worrying TOO much about removing the paint I've already put there.
In the end, you want (IMO) 2 coats of gloss (because it is thicker) and one coat of matte (because it generally looks better).

Eric