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$27 for 48 plastic Romans?

http://www.thewarstore.com/WargamesFactory.html

Oh. OK. Talked me into it.

Photos up here:
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Workbench.htm

Kid_Kyoto wrote:$27 for 48 plastic Romans?

http://www.thewarstore.com/WargamesFactory.html

Oh. OK. Talked me into it.

Photos up here:
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Workbench.htm

I was all over these figures until I saw some comparison pictures... they are 25mm, not the 28-30mm we all know and love, so there is a significant difference. On the other hand, imperial legions for cheap...

Is it me or do they all look like Roman dwarfs?

I saw some new 28mm Roman plastics from Warlord games at Salute. They gave away a free Roman to all who called at the desk. £17 for 30.

They are from Early Imperial period though, the legionaries have full Lorica Segmentata. Though not with full arm armour, so they are IIRC pre-Dacian campaign.

The late republc Romans sold by Fields of Glory are a better buy, purely because you can get more use out of them. The High point of the Roman empire didnt see much fighting except on the German front, conquest of Britain. The campaigns against the Sassanids were later.

The main avantage the Warlord games kits have is that they have a very GW feel, multipart Romans with added command. It is like putting to gether a box of warhammer stuff really, which isnt suprising allowing for who made them.

warlordgames.co.uk

These minis are certainly making historical wargaming a lot more appealing option, visually. The price, especially, is very nice. Sure, they don't have as many bitz and clutter as GW models, but for something like spearmen/pikemen, this can be a good thing. I dunno about you, but I find assembling and painting Empire state troops to be incredibly tedious, with all of their stuff hanging from their belts and such.

I'm looking forward to some Roman siege engines and maybe, if we're very lucky, some Carthaginians.

I have no plan to do any more 25mm ancients armies however I am tempted to get a box for the fun of it.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:$27 for 48 plastic Romans?

Oh. OK. Talked me into it.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. It's great to see what these guys are doing. Between the plastic Civil War infantry from the Perry Brothers, and these plastic Romans and Celts, the historical market could be booming before too long. Great deals, all around.

So we have 2 different companies BOTH making multipart plastic 28mm Romans and Celts?

HUH?

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/
http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/

Wow.

And www.thewarstore.com has both.

On balance I think I like the warlord games ones better but how bizzare. You'd think of of them would decide to do a different era (HINT samurai HINT) rahter than go head to head.

lasgunpacker wrote:

I was all over these figures until I saw some comparison pictures... they are 25mm, not the 28-30mm we all know and love, so there is a significant difference. On the other hand, imperial legions for cheap...

That's actually historically accurate. From what I hear due to differences in diet and health care ancient warriors were closer to 25mm tall, it was only with advances in the 19th and 20th century that we started seeing the 28 and 32 mm soldiers we have today.

You callin' Caesar a midget, KK?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:So we have 2 different companies BOTH making multipart plastic 28mm Romans and Celts?

Wow. I had no idea, I'd only heard of the Wargames Factory ones. What a crazy world we live in!

I've got the Warlord Games free giveaway legionnaire from Salute. Very nice model with detail on par with typical GW kits. The sprue as well looks very "GW" with extra gubbinz here and there.

Cheers

Looking at them I think I like WarLORD more than WarGAMES Factory.

Unless it was the other way around.

The pricer one, that's that one I like.

Someone's gonna make one heckuva IG army out of these.

Not me though.

Really!

Those Gauls would make great marauders or cultist.

So Warlord is a company from "Fat Bloke" and some other ex GW tyepes, which is why they have that GW feel. From what I've seen on the TMP, the Warlord figs are considered smaller.

Wargames Factory is a US-based company that's tied into the "Fields of Glory" game from Osprey (though they are the 'official figures' for the game, this is more like how Coke is the official drink of the NFL, not like how Citadel are the official figures for GW. In other words, you don't need WF figs to play FOG). The leadership at WF has specifically stated that he had his artistic team sculpt the figs to fit in with Crusader figs (sculpted by Mark Sims), so they're closer to 28mm (see this thread for more).

FWIW, both look like great product, and the rise of these, plus the Perrys' plastic ACW range (the cavalry are now out) bodes well for the accessibility of good plastic historical figs.

Dice Monkey wrote:Those Gauls would make great marauders or cultist.

I was thinking the same thing about marauders, but yeah, cultists is a good idea too.


Oh, and speaking of Perry Miniatures Civil War plastics, I saw the sprues in a store today, they are very nice. They even have separate hats! I didn't know the cavalry was out though, I need to check that out.

syr8766 wrote:So Warlord is a company from "Fat Bloke" and some other ex GW tyepes, which is why they have that GW feel. From what I've seen on the TMP, the Warlord figs are considered smaller.

Do you think he will give PenguinDude a discount?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:So we have 2 different companies BOTH making multipart plastic 28mm Romans and Celts?

HUH?

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/
http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/

Wow.

And www.thewarstore.com has both.

On balance I think I like the warlord games ones better but how bizzare. You'd think of of them would decide to do a different era (HINT samurai HINT) rahter than go head to head.

The Wargames Factory are later Republican (post-Marian reform) troops with lorica hamata and Montefortino (I think?) helments. The Warlord figs are early Imperial western legionaries with lorica segmentata and a more modern helmet called the Imperial.

These are two separate periods roughly 100BC to 25AD and 25AD to 200AD.

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Wargames Factory are later Republican (post-Marian reform) troops with lorica hamata and Montefortino (I think?) helments. The Warlord figs are early Imperial western legionaries with lorica segmentata and a more modern helmet called the Imperial.

These are two separate periods roughly 100BC to 25AD and 25AD to 200AD.

I still can't imagine there is enough interest in the period to support 2 companies putting out plastic figures for them.

I'd think that Romans would be one of the most popular historical armies. I guess if there's room for seventeen different types of Space Marine, there's room for two types of Roman.

Historically shouldn't there be like six different types of Roman? All of the Pre-Marian Romans then you have the post Marian, then early Imperial, then late Imperial, then West and East Imperial Roman.

Or you could go the way of Rome Total War and use the different houses.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Wargames Factory are later Republican (post-Marian reform) troops with lorica hamata and Montefortino (I think?) helments. The Warlord figs are early Imperial western legionaries with lorica segmentata and a more modern helmet called the Imperial.

These are two separate periods roughly 100BC to 25AD and 25AD to 200AD.

I still can't imagine there is enough interest in the period to support 2 companies putting out plastic figures for them.

My thoughts exactly, though I hope we're wrong in this.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Wargames Factory are later Republican (post-Marian reform) troops with lorica hamata and Montefortino (I think?) helments. The Warlord figs are early Imperial western legionaries with lorica segmentata and a more modern helmet called the Imperial.

These are two separate periods roughly 100BC to 25AD and 25AD to 200AD.

I still can't imagine there is enough interest in the period to support 2 companies putting out plastic figures for them.

My thoughts exactly, though I hope we're wrong in this.

Um, it's historicals. That should be enough answer in and of itself.

As has been pointed out, we're in a golden age of miniatures, where every whim has enough support to launch multiple ranges. Cowboys, ACW, Ancients, WWII, SYW and other "Lace Wars", Boer war, Naps, WWI, Russian Civil War, Chinese Warlords, Cavemen, VSF, every sci-fi and fantasy genre you can imagine. Hell, the Copplestone/Artizan teamup on "Kiss-Kiss Bang-Bang" (doing 1960s style secret agents and spies) should be enough evidence that everything under the sun is being made, at (almost) every scale.

There still isnt enough steampunk out there. But then again, there is never enough steampunk.

Yair is right though, after doing miniatures research for games of Legends of the Old West and Legends of the High seas, I was in awe at how many companies are out there producing what I previously thought were pretty niche designs. (and they are, but are really gaining in popularity, due to extreme ennui for GW)

There are some real little guys too that make some truly fantastic stuff. Black Scorpion Miniatures comes immediately to mind here.

But back on topic.

If I were one who really cared how my romans looked, then I would buy the warlord minis. They are fabulous, no matter how many mm's they are off.

But it is nice that wargames factory is making their models to fit in well with crusader's established models. Its nice to see backwards compatibility in this hobby.

syr8766 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I still can't imagine there is enough interest in the period to support 2 companies putting out plastic figures for them.

My thoughts exactly, though I hope we're wrong in this.

Um, it's historicals. That should be enough answer in and of itself.

As has been pointed out, we're in a golden age of miniatures, where every whim has enough support to launch multiple ranges. Cowboys, ACW, Ancients, WWII, SYW and other "Lace Wars", Boer war, Naps, WWI, Russian Civil War, Chinese Warlords, Cavemen, VSF, every sci-fi and fantasy genre you can imagine. Hell, the Copplestone/Artizan teamup on "Kiss-Kiss Bang-Bang" (doing 1960s style secret agents and spies) should be enough evidence that everything under the sun is being made, at (almost) every scale.

You do have a point. There is some kind of swing on the market, a few years back, this kind of plastics endeavor would have been unthinkable.

Of the two ranges, I think the WGF Romans will be more popular with "serious" historicals fans, as the Republican perio, I understand, had more interesting things happening than the Imperial. Also, the models are cheaper, allowing you to build full cohorts with less money. The Warlord Romans, OTOH, will be see more "casual" use, since the lorica segmentata and the age of Imperial Rome are more popular in, uhm, popular culture.

I wonder if part of it is the rising cost of soft metals vs. plastic (especially recycled plastic, as wargames factory is using)? Yeah, the startup costs are higher, but if you're planning on building whole UNITS (vs. a handful of character figs), plastic starts to make more sense...

syr8766 wrote:I wonder if part of it is the rising cost of soft metals vs. plastic (especially recycled plastic, as wargames factory is using)? Yeah, the startup costs are higher, but if you're planning on building whole UNITS (vs. a handful of character figs), plastic starts to make more sense...

I dunno. Seems to me sometimes that one pose metal or plastic would be better for units with multipart reserved for character models.

I spend a lot of time converting multipart plastics cause I can. One posers would help me move faster.

Man... I wish I had seen this before I bought all those on sale Rackham Druuns and Kelts for a fantasy Gallic warband.

Well, ok I would probably have done it anyway, but I can see myself picking up some of these bad boys too. I do love the Romans dearly after all.

From what I read about Kraken's new Alkemy plastics, the whole plastics production process is a lot cheaper these days than it used to be:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2008/02/14/12539

How is it that you are able to afford to produce plastic miniatures?
Do not believe everything that is claimed to justify outrageously pricey miniatures. There are many different plastics out there, and the production methods have evolved a lot since the GW sprues. Moreover, with Kraken you pay for the production process, not for a brand.

So while the wargames market is small, and it is still a financial risk to splurge out the up front costs for a plastics miniature range, it is not perhaps quite as risky an endeavour as GW comments in the past about their costs of production for plastics might have lead you to believe. Particularly now that the high price of metal has tipped the balance away from lead models a bit recently.

Something like Romans are a guaranteed seller really over time. And the slight difference in period is probably enough to guarantee a seperate market - historical gamers are really anal about such things as minor helmet and armour variations. The Celts are maybe competing, but I reckon they were always going to play second fiddle to the Romans which have got be the Ancients wargaming world's equivalent of Space Marienz (hurr!)

For instance, GW waste a lot of space on the sprue producing "gubbins". If instead of producing loads of (IMHO redundant) conversion fodder and squeezed in a couple more guys, then their price per model would seem lower and they would be "better value" (at least for those of us that are not that fussed about sticking little fiddly, barely visible bits of plastic to other little fiddly, barely visible bits of plastic in the name of "creativity").

Agamemnon2 wrote:

syr8766 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I still can't imagine there is enough interest in the period to support 2 companies putting out plastic figures for them.

My thoughts exactly, though I hope we're wrong in this.

Um, it's historicals. That should be enough answer in and of itself.

As has been pointed out, we're in a golden age of miniatures, where every whim has enough support to launch multiple ranges. Cowboys, ACW, Ancients, WWII, SYW and other "Lace Wars", Boer war, Naps, WWI, Russian Civil War, Chinese Warlords, Cavemen, VSF, every sci-fi and fantasy genre you can imagine. Hell, the Copplestone/Artizan teamup on "Kiss-Kiss Bang-Bang" (doing 1960s style secret agents and spies) should be enough evidence that everything under the sun is being made, at (almost) every scale.

You do have a point. There is some kind of swing on the market, a few years back, this kind of plastics endeavor would have been unthinkable.

Of the two ranges, I think the WGF Romans will be more popular with "serious" historicals fans, as the Republican perio, I understand, had more interesting things happening than the Imperial. Also, the models are cheaper, allowing you to build full cohorts with less money. The Warlord Romans, OTOH, will be see more "casual" use, since the lorica segmentata and the age of Imperial Rome are more popular in, uhm, popular culture.

The joy of ancients is being able to play any army against any other army. Most ancients rules allow that with a reasonable (though not perfect) degree of points balance.