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Or is Cities of Death a self-contained rules set?

Cities of Death is somewhat self contained. The rules for using it is mainly how the buildings are used. All 40k rules are used with it except for a few alterations such as LOS, angels of shooting, how you attack in CC and so forth. The new rules should not affect the way CoD is used. However, some of the rules I have seen for 5th are actually used in CoD already. Enjoy

As Dread mentioned, most of the terrain rules for cities of death are now part of the main 5th edition rules. The rules for stratagems are still unique to Cities of Death though so if you want to use them, then you will have to specify a game as being Cities of Death.

Ah, I didn't know that. So Cities of Death is not invalidated
and so would still be worthwhile to pick up. Thanks.

Cities of Death is the new concept of the 'supplement' (like Apocalypse) that sits 'on top of' the existing main rules and just provides additional new rules.

That way when the main rules change the theory is that the supplement will still be (more or less) usable with the new main rules.

Cityfight isn't technically "self-contained" in that it doesn't have full rules for playing Cityfight games of 40K if you don't own the main rules for 40K.


The 5th edition rules took pretty much all the Cityfight rules for ruins and incorporated them into the main rulebook, so most of it should be sympatico.

However, there are some references to rules in Cityfight that are no longer part of 40K in 5th edition or have been changed in the new rules. References to 'size categories' for area terrain are now outdated and the rules for drawing line of sight into/through ruins has changed in 5th edition.

Also some of the mission special rules (like what units are scoring and victory points) have also changed in 5th edition.

Hopefully GW will put out a FAQ for Cities of Death for using the rules in 5th edition.


Since COD is the only place to find a bunch of cool stuff, like the rules for strategems and the cityfight missions I think the book is still worth picking up.

malfred wrote:Ah, I didn't know that. So Cities of Death is not invalidated
and so would still be worthwhile to pick up. Thanks.

Yes, but that would mean that you would have to play 40k Mal.

CoD is one of the coolest things that GW has made in terms of supplements. I suggest picking it up. You may borrow my copy if you want as well.

The one thing between CoD and 5th that seems odd is the area terrain rules. CoD used lots of AT, is that replaced simply by LOS? Not that I mind... I imagine it will change the dynamic of CoD somewhat. Hellhounds will be even more useful.

On the note of LOS and CoD. I had been thinking of making inner building terrain inserts that can be used to make buildings more dense in case we want to play them that way.

I love COD. I think some tweaks will be necessary, but it should still work pretty well.

Tweaks include:

Intact Buildings will be able to use the new "embark into building" rules.

Mission levels (alpha, gamma, omega) mostly have to do with table size, number of ruins, and number of stratagems so this should be OK to stay the same. Probably every game regardless of level should get the standard mission Random Game Length in order to make alpha missions more like the new 5th ed 40K in terms of being unsure about when to take that objective.

Placing terrain step is one of the best COD rules and should be fine.

Deployment: Should probably update the deployment to the 5th ed standard of APOC style deployment with the seize the initiative roll.

Stratagems:

Command center is a bit nerfed as there are no longer any target priority rolls. Still a good choice though as the new counter-attack special rule will be great for COD.

Sacred Ground (makes troops stubborn) will be a good choice considering the new rules for losing an assault.

Infiltrate--This is going to be a tricky one, as Infiltrate is a USR now, so it wouldn't normally have to be "bought" as a stratagem. I will probably say you have to buy the stratagem, even for troops that have the USR. Same with Jump Packers and Deep Strike.

Missions--The missions are going to be a bit tricky, as we have to unpack the scoring unit stuff.

Fire Sweep--As written, only scoring units (TROOPS) will be able to plant/remove flags. Perhaps non troops units should be able to discard enemy flags if they are alone in the ruins, but not plant their own.

Other "standard" COD missions. Should be fine, but only Troops will count as scoring to occupy a city ruin. Non troops should be able to contest city ruins like regular 5th ed 40K so that should be fine.

Other scoring unit stuff-Probably the chart that allows units to score at 25% should just be replaced by the 5th ed scoring unit rules.

LOS--This will actually be the stickiest wicket, as many COD buildings have weird LOS granting gaps in the walls. This should be able to be dealt with by discussions with the opponent before the dice start to drop.

All in all COD should be great for 5th ED.

Wow. I agree with everything posted. Mixing it with apocy will make the games even more fun.

xenite wrote:

malfred wrote:Ah, I didn't know that. So Cities of Death is not invalidated
and so would still be worthwhile to pick up. Thanks.

Yes, but that would mean that you would have to play 40k Mal.

See the HTR forum, xenite.

biztheclown wrote:I love COD. I think some tweaks will be necessary, but it should still work pretty well.

Infiltrate--This is going to be a tricky one, as Infiltrate is a USR now, so it wouldn't normally have to be "bought" as a stratagem. I will probably say you have to buy the stratagem, even for troops that have the USR. Same with Jump Packers and Deep Strike.

If I am not mistaken, the way the infiltrate strat works is that it allows units with infiltrate to use the ability. Essentially it makes the mission infiltrate enabled so to speak. In that sense it is no different. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post...

malfred wrote:

xenite wrote:

malfred wrote:Ah, I didn't know that. So Cities of Death is not invalidated
and so would still be worthwhile to pick up. Thanks.

Yes, but that would mean that you would have to play 40k Mal.

See the HTR forum, xenite.

Playing against your GK in CoD would be an interesting game. I can't wait for 5th to come out.

biztheclown wrote:
LOS--This will actually be the stickiest wicket, as many COD buildings have weird LOS granting gaps in the walls. This should be able to be dealt with by discussions with the opponent before the dice start to drop.

All in all COD should be great for 5th ED.

I totally agree (with both of these points). I think that I am going to change the design of some of my CoD buildings so that getting LOS a unit on the opposite side of the building isn't possible. The LOS rules will really change the nature of CoD. The hull down rules will make vehicles more interesting in CoD as well.

My point about the Infiltrators is just for muppets who might say that because Infiltrate is now a USR, they no longer have to buy the stratagem in order to use infiltrate in COD games, as infiltrate is no longer "mission enabled." I was just going off rumors and a quick trip through the COD book. Not a big point, but a possible bone of contention.

Is it no longer "mission enabled", or is it that all the standard missions enable it? Small but crucial difference between the two.

Little bit of threadomancy here, but I have added an article to the dakkka articles system entitled "How to convert Cities of Death to 5th edition 40K" Check it out here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/How_to_convert_Cities_of_Death_to_5th_edition_40K

Nice article bits, well done. Thanks, always enjoyed CoD nice conversion or update of the rules!
TW