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Sorry if this is considered spamming or the wrong forum for this, if so, please delete:

So I am in the process of putting together a megabattle in my local are which will not only include 40k, but AI and BFG. I want to be able to transport troops to the battlefield but I am at a loss as to a conversion factor when it comes to troop transports from AI to 40K.

In the original AI book the Tau Manta (my bane) can carry XX troops. Now, granted the Manta point cost is 4.8 points per troop where all the rest are 4.5 or 4, so I think it may be priced correct for AI, but I think it may unbalance the game of 40k.

My thoughts of conversion from AI to 40K:
1.) Each transport point in AI is equal to 1 squad of 40k infantry
=> The issue with this one will be that the Tau can transport XX units into battle where as the Space Marines, IG, etc can only move XX models, unbalancing the force.
2.) Each transport point in AI is equal to 10 points of 40k models (this will allow for vehicles)
=> Again, this may unbalance the Tau, as I am not 100% sure of the point cost of Tau troops and vehicles (don't have my codex with me)
3.) Each transport point in AI is worth a race-specific amount of models or points
=> I think this may be seen as unfair by the players who may be using them.
4.) Each transport point in AI is worth a ship-specific amount of models or points (designate the Manta as being able to only carry 1 vehicle or XX number of models/points)
=> Again, i think this may be seen as unfair by the players who may be using them. Penalizing them for their race being able to bring a load of troops.

Thoughts? Has anyone done something similar?

Can you just use the 40K stats? How many troops can a Manta carry in 40K? How about a Thunderhawk in 40K?

ZOMG! i completely forgot about that. Damn I was completely wracking my brain on this.

My only issue is, other than Forgeworld's experimental rules for these ships GW does not support the rules for these ships currently.

/+Looks up Forgeworld's site for info on the Manta+/

According to FW's site the Manta carries:
48 Fire warriors
6 Gun Drones
1 Ethereal
8 Battlesuits
2 Devilfish
2 Hammerheads

/+Looks up data on Thunderhawk Gunship+/

According to FW the Thunderhawk can carry 30 fully armed marines

Now I did not state it in my original post, but I'm planning on running three tables, one BFG, one AI, one 40K. All three are able to affect one another. With that said I think perhaps this may be a TEENSIE bit overpowered unless there is a rule that states that the BFG fleet must include Mantas and may not be part of any ordnance.

(OT but the FW model is almost US$2,000...damn! )

Well, honestly, GW doesn't officially "support" the type of game you are trying to play, so go with it if you think it will work. It's your BFG, do what you please. Considering what the manta carries, you could probably get 2 to 3 Thunderhawks for the same points, I assume.

dorkjedi wrote:ZOMG! i completely forgot about that. Damn I was completely wracking my brain on this.

My only issue is, other than Forgeworld's experimental rules for these ships GW does not support the rules for these ships currently.

The Manta rules are found in Imperial Armor volume 4 and more recently in Imperial Armor Apocalypse.

What more do you need?

yakface wrote:

dorkjedi wrote:ZOMG! i completely forgot about that. Damn I was completely wracking my brain on this.

My only issue is, other than Forgeworld's experimental rules for these ships GW does not support the rules for these ships currently.

The Manta rules are found in Imperial Armor volume 4 and more recently in Imperial Armor Apocalypse.

What more do you need?

OK, so the rules for the 40K equivalent is in IA Vol.4 (which I don't own at the moment and I understand the IP infringing legal mumbo-jumbo so I won't ask you to tell me) but using FW's information the Manta can carry the following:
48 Firewarriors
6 Gun Drones
1 Ethereal
8 Battlesuits
2 Devilfish
2 Hammerheads

My question is that if the game allowed all this how could I balance it against all the other races' transports?

Unbalanced games of anything tend to be not very much fun for the player(s) on the losing side of the imbalance unless the scenario rules weight victory of the scenario on the side of the short-handed (so the side with more forces has a harder goal to accomplish in order to win).


If you are aiming for a balanced game of 40K you'd need to have an equal amount of points on the table, regardless of how it gets there. Since a Manta can carry all that stuff you'd need to allow the other armies to land two, three, whatever number of transports on the table in order to equal that amount.


If you're trying to set a scenario up where if a gets his transport to a specific area he gets to use the embarked troops in a game of 40K then you stand a real chance of having a game that is completely lopsided.


Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you're asking.

Actually you do understand! I am planning on three game boards. One BFG, one AI, one 40K. (god, we gamers love us some acronyms) each table will be able to affect the others, so the BFG table can orbital bombard the 40k table, or drop transports, fighters and bombers to the AI table. The AI table will be able to strafe ground troops, bomb targets on the 40K table (not sure how to allow an AI plane back into space though), 40k can fire AA weapons at the AI planes, or orbital defense weapons to fire at the BFG table.
Maybe classifying transports as light, medium, heavy (according to their AI transport number) and only allow certain BFG ships to take certain size transports and in very limited numbers? (heavies can only be launched one at a time by Battleship class ships and they can only carry 2(?)

i am hoping to have this as a joint-operations type megabattle. each board will have a general/admiral/flight commander who will organize with eachother their subordinates to complete the task at hand. these commanding officers will not be controlling of any models, only organizing between tables (Admiral telling General that they need to take out the orbital defense laser because they keep getting slammed, or AI Wing Commanders requesting the manning of AA weapons by 40k troops to get rid of incoming transports or fighters, etc.)

I don't see this game being ready in the next six months, but I want to have the details hammered out so I can train the local boys on AI, brush up the Naval Admirality and the 40k generals are all strong as it is the most played game of the three.

The only problem with this set up is that table a has to wait on table b, which has to wait on table c.

At that point, just play starfleet battles, or Advanced Squad Leader.

That being said, if you played these games squentially, as a campaign, that would be better. Just have a game master record on which turn which fleet/air wing did what action.

Also turns in BFG are not the same length of "real time" as a turn in 40k, etc.

I'd say set the scene so that it's in the midst of an invasion of a system. Pyrite IV, a mining colony, has been conquered by a alien menace, and has become the staging grounds for an invasion of Pyrite III, the agriworld that supports itself, P IV, and the surrounding systems. Imperial defenses have arrived to reinforce P III.

The invasion launches as defenses are almost completed, and the desperate struggle to save a world begins. Will the invasion make it's to P III, or will the defenders move to retake P IV.

Give people bonuses in the following games for winning in the prior weeks.

@Valhallan - While I understand the issues of waiting on each table I think (as a player) I would prefer it over the bookeeping which would be required doing it sequentially. What if the 40k table doesn't have any models in range to use an AA gun or the AI table disorder side doesn't have any troop transports in the atmosphere to land troops or the BFG fleets are out of range when the AI table states the new planes need to be launched into the atmosphere.

The plan would be for timed turns, I understand that a BFG and AI turn do not represent the same amount of time as a 40K turn. The AI turns would be handled in that 2 AI turns would be 1 40k turn, the BFG would be handled by giving the fleets 2-3 turns to get close enough to the planet to land troops and launch fighters planetside. At that point the AI and 40k games would start.

That said I *really* like the setting you described, very gritty, very harsh. I was thinking along the lines of a scramble for a vital piece of archaeotech as there normall wouldn't be any of these beings in/near/around this planet.
Thanks, please keep coming with the thoughts and ideas, like I said I'm trying to get this ironed out to play hopefully in a few months time.

dorkjedi wrote:@Valhallan - While I understand the issues of waiting on each table I think (as a player) I would prefer it over the bookeeping which would be required doing it sequentially. What if the 40k table doesn't have any models in range to use an AA gun or the AI table disorder side doesn't have any troop transports in the atmosphere to land troops or the BFG fleets are out of range when the AI table states the new planes need to be launched into the atmosphere.

The plan would be for timed turns, I understand that a BFG and AI turn do not represent the same amount of time as a 40K turn. The AI turns would be handled in that 2 AI turns would be 1 40k turn, the BFG would be handled by giving the fleets 2-3 turns to get close enough to the planet to land troops and launch fighters planetside. At that point the AI and 40k games would start.

That said I *really* like the setting you described, very gritty, very harsh. I was thinking along the lines of a scramble for a vital piece of archaeotech as there normall wouldn't be any of these beings in/near/around this planet.
Thanks, please keep coming with the thoughts and ideas, like I said I'm trying to get this ironed out to play hopefully in a few months time.

I agree with Valhallan. You don't want to have multiple games running at once affecting each other. There just isn't a good reason to do it that way. Play BFG one week, AI the next and then 40K the week after that.

You don't need to keep literal track of how many transports land where, you just come up with a generic mission objective that represents whether a side was able to deliver its ground troops or not.

Then in the 40K game the next week, the side that won the reinforcement 'air battle' gets some sort of bonus, like they're able to re-roll their reserves, or they can take an extra Elites choice, etc, etc, etc.

Just make up some general missions/rewards and then apply them to your different games to form a campaign.

The more balanced (less powerful) the 'rewards' for winning are, the more likely both sides will be willing to play the next game. The more powerful (less balanced) the 'rewards' for winning are, the more likely the side that lost the previous game (and is starting the next game in a deep hole) won't want to even play the next game.

Thank you!

My club did this once but it was a looong time ago. Still though, I don't think the new version of the rules would mess things up too bad. We had 3 tables. One was BFG, one was Space Hulk, and one was 40K. I think the reason it worked out so well was because the 40K and BFG games started at the same time. So, the scenario was more like: Troops have already landed (two equally sized point forces for 40K) while the fleet clashes above (two equally sized point forces for BFG). Like Yak says if it were done any other way one team would just be likely to forefeit. "Huh, your drop ships full of termies all made it through and the only thing that didn't get vaporized on my side was a drop pod with an IG command squad. ...sounds like a fun game of 40K!" The only players that had to wait were the ones playing Space Hulk and that was because they only played boarding actions between ships in the BFG game. No big deal though since we were synchronizing our turns anyways. So team B had to wait for all 3 tables to complete team A's turn. If I remember correctly most people were playing two or three roles anyways. Like our marine player was also playing a fleet in BFG for example.