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Greetings, all. I'm starting a Dwarves army (haven't played fantasy before, only 40k), and I'm trying to discern their strengths and weaknesses. I think that Dwarves are tougher in hand-to-hand than the norm, but move slower, probably won't be getting the charge, and are good with shooting. Can anybody expand on this?

They also have a powerful magic item creation system which gives your heros more flexability than most armies. They lack magic completely. They have decent base dispell dice (4 in total) in lower points battles without spending anything on rune priests. They have decent leadership on all of their troops, compared to other armies.

Strimen wrote:They also have a powerful magic item creation system which gives your heros more flexability than most armies. They lack magic completely. They have decent base dispell dice (4 in total) in lower points battles without spending anything on rune priests. They have decent leadership on all of their troops, compared to other armies.

Also, they have awesome ranged capabilities, high toughness and some units have great close combat effectiveness. On the downside, they have a high point value per model and they lack mobility and maneuverability.

Ok, thanks guys, that's a start.

Now, i know that Quarrelers and Thunderers aren't as effective in melee as Warriors, but if I give them shields, can they hold their own?

Similarly, a unit of Quarreler rangers can deploy forward and harass things, but do i just leave them with great weapons, or should i give them shields too?

For 1 pt, shields are always a requirement. They double your AS against ranged attacks and triple it against CC attacks (from the front). Always always always.

Having said that, it's not like a real RnF unit. They can fight off minor stuff, but for the most part, you're going to be fleeing. Late in the game, though, you can reform, get a rank, and maybe get an important late-game counter-charge.

Anyway, always take shields.

Wait, they add the save bonus even when they're busy shooting their crossbows/reloading handguns?

Yes! It's amazing, isn't it? Don't ask questions. Just paint up the shields and glue them to the back of the models like they're slung over their shoulders. Think about it. You just doubled your save against S3 bowfire. You just turned your negated save from S4 crossbowfire and magic missiles into a 6+ save. And sure, Empire Handguns and Ratling guns don't care, but Ratling guns destroy everything they touch anyway. Not great, but an unbelievable return on 1 pt per model. And in HtH, well, the advantages there are obvious.

Wow, so looks like standard equip from now on.

So, I was talking with the people at the game store, and evidently since they can't fire two ranks worth (unless on a hill), is the largest feasible unit 10?

12 used to be thinkable because you could reform to 4X3 in a pinch. Now that ranks are 5s instead of 4s, 10 is all you need to bother with.

I'd also include a Musician. He's not terribly important, but he'll up your Ld to 10 for the rally after your inevitable flee. Not that you'll flee every game, such as if you were lucky enough to get all manner of hill in your deployment zone and can protect all your ranged units, but you'll be fleeing with these guys enough to realize that they're going to flee at least every other game. As an added bonus, if you decide to take the charge (or have to) from some skirmishers or something and manage to tie the combat, he'll give you the 1pt win.

For 5 more pts on a 150 pt unit of Thunderers or even a 120 unit of Crossbowmen? Not mandatory, but I'd take it.

Strengths:
Most units have a stat line that is much better than their points.
Awesome magic negation abilities.
Item creation that gives you flexible characters.
Great warmachines.
Amazing units like slayers.

Weaknesses:
Poor mobility and can sometimes have a hard time running fleeing enemies down.
No magic.

Everything bigchris says is true .
I would only add that make sure you take at least one unit of xbowmen in addition to your handgunners, the extra range can really come in handy.

Major weakness.

Always camping in one corner and shooting the hell out of your opponent until they finally get to your lines only to be smashed by your rank and file cobat troops = lame for you and opponent after 2 or 3 games....

BigChris1313:

Something to think about. While you need 5 to form a full rank, you don't have to "block" out a unit.

Instead of 10 Quarrellers / Thunderers / Handgunners / Crossbowmen, try a unit of 11 with Musician. First rank is six across, second rank 5. What that gets you is a more reliable shot-hit-wound ratio. And, a more dangerous threat against charging opponents. Or, you can still do the "string" of 11 across... you'd be suprized how many people don't bother counting missle units, and assume they're all size-10.

And, causing that extra wound means you're more likely to rob an opponent of a rank bonus, or really break up a charge as it comes in.

Anyway, just an odd thought.

I would say their complete lack of mobility kills the real joy of WHFB. The movement is the most tactical phase in the game, and I would suggest against dwarves for this reason. You only get to counter charge, and only where your opponent wants. Your only tactical decision as a dwarf player is decieding which units to shoot, and that becomes simple soon enough.

One problem I have with Dwarven armies is that everyone presumes that, at any given tournament, they may face a Thorek Gunline style army, and prepares something to handle the occasion. It's a great army, don't get me wrong, but it's so common that everyone has a game plan against it, and that is troublesome.

Then, too, Thorek is the Eldrad of WHFB, you are doing it wrong if you don't take him, but if you do take him everyone beats on your soft scores.

I've found that they actually aren't that strong of a force to play with and am currently selling my Dwarf army, but that's mainly because I don't like their lack of mobility and playstyle, more than how competitive I think they are or aren't.

The problem with Dwarfs is that if you're up against a good player who is going to play for the win, as long as their list isn't terrible they can probably beat you by killing the things you need to take: Warmachines & Missile Troops.

If you take big blocks of troops, as long as I have a maneuverable army, I'm never going to engage you and you will never be able to catch me*.

All I have to do is make sure my Warmachine hunters can kill your machines, maybe kill a missile unit or two, and then keep my two table quarters and contest yours, and I'm easily winning the game or forcing a draw.

The problem with WHFB and Warmachines is that most people get WM hunters, and it's fairly easy to make sure that they get through to do their job if someone builds their lists right. And trust me, nothing is more frustrating than seeing a tunnelling unit charge your expensive WM's on Turn 2/3, or a unit that arrives from behind you getting you on Turn 3.

And the other problem with WHFB and Dwarfs lies with infantry blocks. That's all the Dwarf player can take, and you can never take a lot of them. As such armies that can out maneuver you (almost everybody) can easily take you down because once you're flanked, you're done.

People will take units like Hammerers and the like to keep their blocks around, but the more Special blocks you take, the less Warmachines you have and sadly, you need Warmachines to deal with Large Targets, especially in the current WHFB environment.

* - Generally a Dwarf player can never catch an opponent determined to not fight him, but this is not true in the case of an army using the Anvil of Doom. Of course the Anvil brings about it's own world of problems in terms of army design and issues that make it unappealing at least for me.

Ok, as a six year dwarf player I gotta say that whilst people may think they are lacking in mobility there are a couple of things that improve things.

1. Dwarves can't be march blocked. You can always move 6" even if there are enemy units nearby.

2. Strollaz Rune is a runic standard that allows you to make free moves before the start of the game.

3. Gyrocopters + small units of rangers make great march blockers to slow your enemy down while you trundle towards them.

4. The Anvil of Doom. - Free movement in your shooting phase for 1 or D3 units? Yes please!! (just don't take Thorek or everyone will hate you...)

5. Miners

Now I'm aware that mobility and manoeverability are not the same thing. If you screw up your unit positioning and deployment with a CC focused dwarf army, you will probably lose, but if you get it right and get your flank charges in with the right units your opponents will learn that Dwarfs have some of the most powerful / durable combat troops in the game.

Playing a dwarf army DOES NOT have to mean sitting on a hill and shooting. Infact the look on opponents faces when you have your army 24" on to the table after your first turn is priceless...

Whilst VooDoo boyz is right, you do need war machines and shooting, you don't need expensive war marchines or shooting. A pair of tooled up bolt throwers, with an engineer costs only slightly more than a single tooled up cannon, and you can still do most of the things a cannon does. You can also deploy them on opposite sides of a table to make them harder to kill off.

"Sire, the dwarves are advancing.

What??

Yes my leige, they will be upon us in minutes.

How is this possible??

They moved!

Damn their inginuity!"

I agree with Fitzeh. You can make some really unexpected moving dwarf armies. Rune of challenge is great for bringing the enemy closer and wrecking their battle line the turn before your armies collide. Miners are great for coming on the board edge and flanking or rear for other warmachines. Gyro's are a must for march blocking one of the enemies flanks thereby staggering their line in which ever direction you choose. Rangers, strollaz rune, and the anvil make for some great mobility. Whats that! Did that unit of hammers just charge 12" this turn.

Most of this elements are a main stay in may army (accept rangers and strollaz) with some ranged back up. I take a pair of bolt throwers with engineers and 10 thunderers and 10 quarrelers, all with no extra equipment. So only 370 points worth of ranged equipment in my 2000 point army. Generally throws people off when they see so many RnF dwarves not to mention a group of 21 warriors and BSB who cause fear and have a unit str of 42.

Basically dwarves can have mobility its just hidden in the combination of runes, items, and tactics that you use to get the mobility out of them.

I have secured a dwarf infantry based army (go ardboyz) and will be working on them eventually (to many other things to do)

I believe they can be made to work. Dwarfs in general arent to expensive. If you dont load up on warmachines they can do amazing things.
That being said, you only have a couple things to deal with large flyers and that is warmachines and rune of challenge (nobody wants their dragon to charge a dwarf lord in a unit of hammerers).

The flanks of you army HAVE to be protected though, and a BSB is prety much manditory as once a hole appears you dont have the speed to plug it.

I had designed a mobile dwarf army. I have yet to play it but it could be fun.

Thorek (but you are trying to move your units instead of shoot other units).
Bugman
20 Warriors with Cmd
20 Long Beard with Cmd
20 LB Rangers with Cmd
19 LB Rangers with Std musician (Add Bugman)
10 Miners with Prospector and Steam Drill
10 Miners with Prospector and Steam Drill

Came out to 2000 Points.

Use Thorek to advance you units and Stollaz to get your units the free move.

You will definitely not be called a gunline army. Place unit 1, Place unit 2, Place Thorek. Get +1 for deplying first. Deploy Scouts. Turn 2 Bring in Miners (reroll available).

Commander, some how the dwarfs have us surrounded.

Top tips.

1) Make those miner units smaller, and drop the toys. You need them to make their points back, which is acheived by raping war machines, or rear charging. you don't need them to turn up that early so you don't need the drill.

2) You are going to have real trouble with monsters, and heavy cavalry. You really need something that can shoot a dragon / chariot / dragon princes etc.. I suggest a tricked out bolt thrower or two.

3) Thorek is actually a cheese-smith. And I'm a dwarf player !!