Dark Eldar build?

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**whitedragon**

So I want to start a Dark Eldar army, and the theme will be to see how many Dark Lances I can cram in it, so I need y'all's help.

Plus, I know Ravagers are good, but in 5th edition, are the Scourges an ok choice now with heavy weapons, since infantry are alot easier to screen?

**Alpharius Walks**

I would think something like:

Archon or Dracon with retinue, x2 Dark Lances, Raider with Dark Lance

Dracon with retinue, x2 Dark Lances, Raider with Dark Lance

x10 Warriors, x2 Dark Lances, repeat six times in troops
(Give them blasters if you want the extra 12" Assault 1 DL's)

x3 triple DL Ravagers

(Scourges are still far too fragile for their points cost, and the change to jump infantry makes them take extra casualties if you need them to move around. Plus, with DE, you are screening with things that will die to a stiff wind if you opponent feels like it-not much of an insurance policy.)

That gets you to 27 for about 1300 points, with the ability to add another 16 blasters for not a whole lot more.

**whitedragon**

Would you want to just max out completely on lances, or would you want a killy Archon on a jetbike still? What else you you want in the army?

**Alpharius Walks**

Well, the theme given was maximum dark lances, and taking the jetbike Archon will cut into that.

The jetbike seems a much bigger risk now. Even with a Shaodwfield . . . eventually you will start rolling ones, and then any S6 shots will kill him. With the model's comparative inability to hide, eventually enough bolters/lasguns/whatever will get through to force the 1 out, and then he is toast.

**Stelek**

I've never used a Jetbike Archon.

Always foot.

Jetbike is even worse now, unless you want to make a assault army outta bikers...possible, but good? Dunno.

Foots still good though.

**Alpharius Walks**

Reavers are still too expensive for what they do. The only real use is extra highly mobile blasters (85 pts. for 3 bikes, 2 blasters.) Maybe an extra agonizer as well if you want to pay the points.

**Darrian13**

I have not seen DE played in 5th yet. Alpharius, any chance that you will be bringing your DE to the AGR RTT tomorrow? I kinda miss my DE army.

**Alpharius Walks**

I already submitted my list-I am running Guard tomorrow. I plan on bringing the DE to the next GMI event though (I like the army I have much more at 1750 than 2000.) I might bring them to the September GE RTT too. Decisions, decisions.

**whitedragon**

Do you like it more at 1750 because you start running out of things to use at the 2000 pt level?

**Alpharius Walks**

My personal army is Wych Cult, which plays better at 1750 or less. Above that, one's opponents starts to have a very good chance of blasting your Portal carriers off the board before they drop them.

**Moz**

The champs for me so far are the Haemonculii with destructors. Talking like 6x of the buggers. Have them play the shell game with other transported units and you've got some really dodgy super nasty AP d6 multi-flamer units.

HORRIBLE for killpoints, but whatever.

Choppy HQs just seem like a bad trade now. I chop up your unit and you gun down my 150+ point HQ model - meh.

Grotesques are crazy good for screening, and portal delivery if you go for that method. They can't even take damage from an exploding transport, how cool is that?

**Stelek**

Yeah Moz I like that config too.

lol I toss in a trio of terror/horrorfexes and man let the good times roll!

Grotesques really are bull

lol

**whitedragon**

I dunno, any way I try to cut it seems like it gives away WAAAAY to many KP's. The Haemonculi are awesome, and almost worth taking 6 instead of an archon, but that's 1 KP each. And I don't think I can table an opponent each time to guarantee the win.

Each raider is another KP.

I'm also not really understanding when and where would be a good time to drop the portal. With everything being able to be held in reserve anyway, what do you get from a portal? What units would you hold in it if you are running a stactic shooting list.

Warp Beasts are a must, and Grotesques are awesome, but that only leaves you one more slot for wyches. If all of your troops are DE warriors, and three ravagers, thats only fast attack left to pick units from.

**Alpharius Walks**

Dark Eldar will struggle to win KP missions. Same as Guard and certain other armies. The list is designed around fielding multiples of good units, and it is difficult to compress them down into expensive units. Even a maxed out Warrior squad is not going to run much over 200 points.

If the army is built around maxing out static dark lances, I would stay away from the portal approach. The portal is good for getting close to the enemy. At 1500 points, you don't have enough stuff rushing to get to grips with them to justify the expense (in this build).

Warp Beasts do not take up elite slots-you can field one for each Wych squad. Plus you can always throw some Wyches into HQ by taking Drachites with retinues.

**Moz**

Warp beasts don't take a spot.

I also don't think that the webway works too well with the lance spam setup, so that's probably moot. My newer webway lists attempt to get around the KP problem by stuffing everyone not devoted to delivery into the portal on a KP mission. Plan on a turn 4 deployment of the portal and pour out on turn 5.

For a gunline with lances, it's probably best to skip all that silliness and go for the dracons with 2 lance retinue. You can do a lance per 50 pts all the way up to 1500. That is counting some raiders for wyches though.

**whitedragon**

So in that army, grotesques don't have a place? They're just too fun and silly to leave out. Plus the Haemonculi are insane!!!

theblklotus called me the other day to tell me all the ways you abused him with the scissorhands and flamers.

So, lance spam would look like this...

Dracon
9xDE warriors 2x Dark Lance
Raider with Dark Lance

Dracon
9xDE warriors 2x Dark Lance
Raider with Dark Lance

3x 10 Wyches
3x Raider with Dark Lance

6x 10 Dark Eldar warriors 2x Dark Lance

And then....whatever else I want? What about in I dunno, say 2500 pts.....

**josh_hammer**

lance spam fun go with, 6 squads of raider warriors with 5 man crew each squad gets an additional lance start them away from the transport you get 2 lances that can point at diffrent targets and have to be singled out sepratly rather than 1 10 man squad w/2 lances

**Moz**

Yeah the 6xApD6 flamer shell-game is killer. Again though, horrible for KP missions.

Grotesques would still make a pretty sweet screening line, if not a portal delivery system. Can you screen 70 warriors behind 10 guys? Probably. It'd be a little tight and you'd have to worry about multiple charges and templates, but you would be largely cover independent.

**whitedragon**

If the board was nice and open, it could work really well... I don't want to restrict too many fire lanes for the Dark Lances.

**Moz**

Screening rules being as screwy as they are, the lances could all be up front, a row of grotesques behind them, and then the huge mob of ablative warrior wounds behind that. Lances cover the grotesques, grotesques cover the lance squad.

Settle down for a nice game of Warhammer 4+K

**whitedragon**

Moz wrote:Screening rules being as screwy as they are, the lances could all be up front, a row of grotesques behind them, and then the huge mob of ablative warrior wounds behind that. Lances cover the grotesques, grotesques cover the lance squad.

Settle down for a nice game of Warhammer 4+K

That is brilliant, and sure to upset casual gamers that are not as up to speed on how the rules work.

**ibushi**

Is that REALLY legit? I thought they ruled that units can't screen each other, meaning the DL units would not get a save, or you could argue hard and get them one, but at the loss of a save for the grots. Could you REALLY do this legitimately?! lol hilarious

**Stelek**

Who ruled? GW wrote it into the rules!

**Hellfury**

From what I have read it is legitimate.

It is very similar tactic to what I did with necrons in 3rd ed.

In 5th ed, all three of these units get coversaves, but any unit fired upon by these three units get coversaves as well as all shots from the squad go through intervening models.

In 3rd ed, its was a nasty trick and a blatant abuse of the rules since you could fire through your own units, but you could not fire through the enemies units. You could never reduce a necron squad below 50% with this formation. All wrapped around and protecting the lord.

Of course, this doesn't make necrons any good in 5th ed because as soon as they get assaulted these 360 pt units go fleeing off of the table.

[edit]miswrote 5th ed as 4th ed....I am still catching up...[/edit]

**Hellfury**

whitedragon wrote:Warp Beasts are a must, and Grotesques are awesome, but that only leaves you one more slot for wyches.

Keep in mind that warpbeasts don't take up elite slots. Just the squad of wyches do that you must take in order to field a squad of warpbeasts.

[edit] Oops didnt see Moz's post.[/edit]