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Well now that the SaG mek needs to join a unit, his usefulness has dropped considerably. He can join lootas, but niether compliment each other very well, just barely enough to consider, but not to actually utilize --their ideal targets conflict too much. But consider grots: a sub-par unit that only got worse in V5. But think about it.

A squad of 19 with a slaver sitting in cover by an objective in/near your deployment zone with the mek. They have low priority compared to the myriad of more pressing cc threats orks have, while they score and have all the fire power of the SaG mek.

I find it intriguing that two underpowered units become viable when used in conjunction. I won't say competitive because honestly, there's nothing better (maybe in the whole game) than more shoota boyz.

Thoughts? Too vulnerable? Too Expensive?

-Leo037

I posted this months ago...I think most of the vets picked up on it when 5E came out, if they weren't running a horde of boyz.

what about a KFF mek with a squad of 30 grotz and 3 runtherdz for a giant screen in front of several full mobz of sluggas with hidden PKs?

The grotz line up to give all the boyz a 4+ cover save and the mek joins the grot line squad to give them the 5+ cover save from the KFF and give himself 33 ablative wounds, let the charge commence. Take some kommandos with snikrot to make sure your opponent doesnt line up too close to his board edge, and too far from your boyz.

This just seems mean to me, i noticed it while glancing through my buddies 'dex,(havn't said a word to him of course) and i wouldnt want to fight it.

Why would you pay for the 3rd runtherd? 10 points to get an extra 3 point grot?

You have the tactics correct. Although when you use a KFF big mek, you can't have a SAG...but since grot shooting makes you laugh, you should always go to ground with them if they get shot at.

That gives you a 4+ cover save.

If the Orks stand right behind the grots, the grots in effect are like a barricade (low wall) and your opponent won't get cover saves from your shooting (but you will get them from his).

Just make sure you put a bosspole on the big mek, so when you fail your LD8 test you get a re-roll. It's about as solid as grots get. lol

good point about the last runtherd stelek, I bow to your superior wisdom. Although that throws off the list's exact point cost, and the big mek loses 2 wounds :p

Going to ground too is a good idea, although they would be pinned the next turn right?

Yes, they would be pinned...so the meat shields with the 12" range guns can't fire? Gee, loss.

I'll offer a dissenting opinion to Stelek's advice: Keep the third Runtherd. He doesn't just provide an extra two wounds, he provides some extra protection for the Mekboy in close combat with his Grabba Stikk (which is good since assault is the most effect way to remove this unit from the board). Needless to say you should bodyguard the Meboy with the Runtherdz.

If the Mekboyz is going to be the sort that totes a Kustom Force Field and joins a unit of Grotz, then Going to Ground is a good idea despite the pinning, since it makes the Grotz a stiffer meat shield. They will be pinned, but it's not like it'll interfere with their potential firepower much. I think, and I also think I'm wrong about this, that this pinning might given them some immunity to morale checks caused by shooting attacks.

Grots are WS2/T2/Save 7+. Go ahead and add a runtherd to make them "win in CC". Please. PLEASE! DO IT!

Going to ground doesn't make you immune to any checks of any kind.

Who said anything about winning in close combat? I'm talking about protecting the Mekboy from being killed in close combat.

With regard to Going to Ground, I guess I was right about being wrong.

I wish you'd actually play a game instead of spouting more Nurglibberish.

10 assault marines assault.

You have 30 attacks.

20 hit.

Approximately 16 grots die. Yes, there's probably a Sarge and a Chaplain too, but hey...neither here nor there. Yes, I know grabba sticks remove attacks from people in base. Woo. -3 attacks. +Chaplain +5 and Sarge +1...you do the math with the re-rolls off the Chappy.

No matter how many kills you get off of what's left, you are going to be at at -7 to your roll to stay.

You need double 1's with a re-roll to stay.

When you fail, the grots are in the majority...so you are I2.

You need to roll +3 higher than the marine roll to not get caught when you flee.

If the marine player rolls a 4 (4+4=8) you cannot get away.

Oh right, does it matter anyway? No, because the squad you are attached to is BROKEN AND BELOW HALF AND CANNOT RALLY, and your IC cannot leave it. (16/31.)

WTB people that actually play this game. Please. One horse nickel per. PLEASE! For the love of...

While i do believe going to ground is not a terrible idea, and would be a FANTASTIC idea after a couple of turns have gone by, i really want to keep them moving for the first turn or two or three (depending on deployment style) so the boyz dont lose their handy grot wall by moving ahead of them as they are pinned and cant move. However once you get the horde within 13-18" you can leave them behind while the waaghing horde jumps them and then assaults, then the big mek and grotz walk off to steal that objective placed in the corner of the table.

Why not put the KFF mek in the slugga boyz BEHIND the grotz. So of the grots get totally torn to shreds and are broken, your HQ character is not caught up in the mess.

And that unit is in a good spot to counter assault where he can just hide in the back.

I dunno if it is worth it to take an expensive KFF on foot if you are not intending to protect vehicles with it. If you were sporting dreds or a battle wagon, maybe... But instead of giving grots a +5 cover save, why not just throw another 20 grots on the board for the cost of the Mek?

60 doo-doo grots never did me wrong in a footslogger army. I know the new argument is 20 shootaz = 30 grotz but there is a psychological value to grots on the board that is intangible. People always seem to waste way to much time and effort on them which is always a good thing.

But we will see. I own 150 metal grots so I hope at least 60 of them get to see battle in 5th sometime.

My SAG mek is gonna hang out with a big gunz crew.

I'd put the KFF in the Boyz behind the Grotz. That way the Grotz get the 5+ save, and when they do eventually die, they don't take the KFF with em, so your Boyz still get the 5+ as well.

Boyz need to move.

KFF mek does not.

However, putting a KFF mek with a unit of grots is best for most Ork armies.

Here's why (in my opinion)

If you aren't running 180 boyz (often you aren't) then you still want a cheap unit to sit back and hold your own objective. In a trukk army, a biker army, or a shooty army...

You can spare a trukk unit to give yourself a cheap unit to sit back and be pinned, but meanwhile give your trukks a 4+ cover save.

A biker army doesn't seem to need a KFF mek, but if you have an objective in the open grots going to ground without cover just die horribly and run away.

For long range shooting you don't WANT orks in front of you....gives the enemy cover saves.

Basically it boils down to this:

Do I want one of my troops (in almost any ork variation) sitting back and doing nothing? No, of course not. There are alot of armies that can not really do anything to grots in your backfield. Some can, and you'd rather have boyz...but if you don't face that every game, you lose list efficiency guarding against the 'what if'.

It is much better to bring your own cover (grots) AND objective holder, in a balanced ork list, than anything else.

The 180 ork horde is really 150 orks, because 30 retards have to stay behind. That's why I laugh at 180 ork armies, they can't toss 180 orks my way without risking total defeat if they can't take my objective from me. It's really easy to speed bump them. Might take your whole army and you will suffer heavy losses, but...in the end, if they don't have a grot unit holding their objective...and you hold yours, you win. I've seen shoota armies, and they are scary--until you learn how to beat them. And those 360 shots they can possibly get won't show up till turn 3. If you can't kill alot of orks in 2 turns, you aren't going to...

Anyway, I have the grots and the KFF so my lootas can sit behind them and get cover while denying it to my enemy. I don't have to do anything sneaky, either. People can shoot a heavy bolter unit at my grots if they want to. I will thank them for it.

I am still unsure who is assaulting grots on the orks side of the board. Is it turn 6 and the orks are all dead, so who cares? I mean, really. You don't just run past orks to get at grots without getting smushed in the process.

This must be a record.

OP is obviously on topic and so is Steleks first answer and then it suddenly turns into Big Meks and KFF.

Weren't we talking about SAG?

SAG is on a Big Mek.

KFF is on a Big Mek.

Besides a grot unit [be it troops or arty] where ya gonna stick him?

Anywhere else, is "bad" for one reason or another.

In short, they are basically identical discussions...where do you sit a support element in an Ork army and keep him safe?

KFF or SAG...it's grots or it's not.

Grots with a SAG seem like a great idea. I've been putting him with Lootas, but quickly found that I'd really like the SAG to fire at different targets. Great find regarding grots.

The Grots, as Stelek pointed out, can hold your own objective sitting in your deployment zone. Set the objective in a location where the SAG will get great lanes of fire. Now, a great additional shooting threat.

The only downside is one of my Loota units lose a Boss Pole from the Big Mek.

That's ok. People will shoot your grots once you annihilate something they don't like to lose. Or the last Ork player did. That makes the lootas happy orks! lol

Stelek wrote:I wish you'd actually play a game instead of spouting more Nurglibberish.

Watch it there. Thin ice, all that.

Lots of good ideas for grots and Meks.

I might have my SAk mek sit behind with a persona grot squad. Sounds like it does two things: Giving him some protection and claim objectives.

Well now that the SaG mek needs to join a unit, his usefulness has dropped considerably

I'm new to the forum, and haven't played orks for a long time and just picked up the codex not too long ago. I understand this may be a stupid question, but please indulge and perhaps educate me...

Why does a Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun need to be attached to a unit? He's an IC and an HQ choice, correct? Why can't he go out on his own?

Thanks

Iron Bear

IC's get shot dead on their own in 5E, since you can target them freely as a 'unit'.

That's why...

I see.