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I've got this Ultramarine-playing opponent in my club that fields some stuff that strikes me as.. odd. I don't play marines or own the codex, and given how "powerful" space marines are I wouldn't be totally surprised if this stuff was legal.

Anyway

1. The sergeants in his Tac Squads had Missile Launchers?

2. All his sergeants had Ld 10?

3. They never take any kind of negative morale modifiers from shooting. Even his lone surviving sergeants with the missile launchers continued to test at Ld 10.

Thanks for your assistance.

1.) IIRC Missile Launchers are not listed in the wargear section and that is where the sergeant gets his gear. Unless he had some sort of divergance I don't know about, he wasn't playing that correctly.

2. If there is a Captain (HQ) on the table, everyone uses his Ld. Sergeants naturally have a Ld 9 - unless its a specific chapter.

3. What kind of test is he taking? Target priority and Last Man Standing tests have been removed when 5th edition implemented. The only test (without knowing other 'effects' on the unit) would have been when he lost 25% of his unit. IIRC there is a -1 if the squad is below 1/2 strength (might have been removed with this edition) and even then it is only in effect for that one roll.

Marine sargents come with bolt pistol and close combat weapon. They can then buy additional weapons from the armoury. As Harkainos mentioned, missile launchers are not in the armoury and thus sargents can't take them. You might have to go over this with your opponent so he can see that what he's doing is wrong.

Again, if there is a captain on the board who's leadership 10, then every marine on the table is also leadership 10 (stupid marine rules). That being said, in all other situations, the sargent is leadership 9.

In 5th edition, without the inculsion of special pieces of wargear / special weapons that specificaly give you modifiers to your leadership, there are no modifiers to your leadership that show up in the shooting phase. There is no more target priority, there is no more last man standing (although that test was taken in the movement phase anyway) and the test for 25% casualties doesn't have modifiers on it anymore (used to be -1 for being under half in 4th edition). So while it's true that he doesn't have any modifier for his leadership in the shooting phase, no one does so it isn't exactly a special marine ability.

Now in hand to hand, there are leadership penalties that can show up and marines are affected by them just like everyone else.

You might want to sit down with you friend and read over the codex together. Start if off by telling him how cool you think his marines are and how you wish your army was like them. Then get him to sit down with you and the codex to look it over. Then start pointing out where he's screwing up.

1. The sergeants in his Tac Squads had Missile Launchers?

I think in the FAQ scout sergeants could be given sniper rifles.
One marine may be armed with a misslle launcher. it seems to me that he is still a marine

Aristotle wrote:

1. The sergeants in his Tac Squads had Missile Launchers?

I think in the FAQ scout sergeants could be given sniper rifles.
One marine may be armed with a misslle launcher. it seems to me that he is still a marine

This would be true, except that the Sergeant comes with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon OR a bolter for free. Giving him Terminator Honors states that he may choose additional equipment (from the armory), and the missile launcher is not in the list of weaponry/wargear he may choose from.

Aristotle wrote:

1. The sergeants in his Tac Squads had Missile Launchers?

I think in the FAQ scout sergeants could be given sniper rifles.
One marine may be armed with a misslle launcher. it seems to me that he is still a marine

while he is a marine in the traditional sense, he only gets to select items that are listed under 'Character' - that is why he doesnt get a missile launcher.

Also if you look at the 'number/squad' section it seperates the sergeant from the unit - Sergeant and 4-9 Tactical Space Marines....

Looking at the soon to be replaced codex, while it says that characters have access to the armory and are limited to two weapons, in the tactical squad entry it just says "One Space Marine in the squad may be armed with ..." A 'Space Marine Sergeant' upgraded to a 'Veteran Sergeant' has access to the armory, but a regular sergeant doesn't seem to be allowed that gear, so the armory's secondary to the issue.

Is the 'Space Marine Segeant' in a 'Space Marine Tactical Squad' not a 'Space Marine'? If he's just equipping his sergeants with the squad missle launcher and one other weapon and throwing away the extra weapon (if he didn't just keep the bolter), I don't see any problem. It might be silly to do it that way but it's not obviously wrong and shouldn't make any difference in a game.

If you want an international rules dispute, that line in the Japanese codex just says 'Up to one member of the squad can have one of the following upgrades: ...' and then lists the missle launcher, etc.

yes... he is not a space marine for that purpose... he is divided out there intentionally... that is why it says sergeant and 4-9 space marines...

there is a clear destinction between the sergeant and the space marines in that section (in all sections) of the codex

again... EVERTYHING in the codex is technically a 'space marine' -

it isn't a huge deal, as you stated, but it is clear that the sergeant isn't a space marine for weapon selection purposes

i need to correct myself....

it is a big deal... a master-crafted missile launcher is a big deal

Instead of saying a sergeant is not a 'Space Marine' for weapon selection purposes how about reading page 27 of the codex under the heading 'Options' which clearly states that squad upgrades must be given to ordinary unit members and not the character.

Well, okay. I didn't see the line prohibiting giving squad upgrades to the sergeant, and am forced to withdraw my defense of the missle launcher sergeant.