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When we play games of FB there is one guy that playes Woodelves... without the elves. I havent beaten him once and i dont think no one else in our community has either.

The thing is he always field the same army consisting of something like this:
As many Treemen he can fit
As many Treekins he can fit
And the rest is dryads w. some dryad chars

Its boring as hell to face his army, and i just cant figure out how to beat this crap

Any help would be appreciated.

Btw i play Chaos Mortals or Warriors of Chaos as we now are known as.

You have a mismatch there, a skirmisher army vs a ranked up troops army. Plus his trees can outbash chaos, one of the few armies that can.

His magic defence will be weak without elves, I think this is key. What god does your army worship?

Khorne...

Wait a little bit for the new rules to come out? Your army is about to get a serious re-tooling from that.

Past that, right now you're screwed. Sorry man.

Chariots and knights are good at spanking Dryads. Characters with magical attacks are key too. Mount your characters up on chariots, chaos steeds, or daemonic mounts. Daemonic mounts are particularly nice for the extra two S5 magical attacks; though chariot impact hits are nothing to sneeze at, even though the dryads will get their ward saves. Be sure to learn how to Tactically Wheel (fourth question under charging, http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf) against Dryads. One of the few disadvantages of the all-tree army is that nothing can voluntarily flee from your charges, so using your M7 stuff, you should almost always be able to get the charge.

The nearly inevitable Treeman Ancient with Annoyance of Netlings can only really be dealt with using Dragon Ogres or Chaos Ogres w/GW (both of which we’re missing until the new book comes out later this year) or pure static CR. The problem is that big marauder blocks are easily beaten up by treekin and dryads, so you need to figure out a way to kill or redirect that stuff so that the marauders have a chance to do their job and tie up the big tree. Rumors right now state that in the new book chaos knights will have the option of S5 magical attacks or S4 with lances; I’m going for the S5, no doubt, which will make them great at cutting up treekin and even viable against treemen; for the moment, though, chosen knights or chosen warriors with great weapons are still your best bet for chopping down the big trees, even though they’ll still get their ward and a minor (5+ or 6+) armor save (after your high strength).

Also, if you don’t have enough Dispel dice to block Treesinging, take some disposable units of warhounds and use them to physically block forests from moving toward you. That can buy you some valuable time and space.

FIRE

karlfranz wrote:FIRE

Do Chaos Mortals have access to fire? I don't really know.

Yes, the wizards can take lore of fire. The problem is that it doesn’t actually do anything special against Dryads, and it’s still not that great against Treekin and Treemen, thanks to their high toughness and good armor saves.

there is a sword in the chaos book that does D3 wounds against anything it wounds and doesent kill, oh, and it counts as flamming too

take a character on a dragon with that sword, charge only treemen and treekin, his high int. attacks and WS will ensure he kills anything he fights in 1 turn.
let the dragon burn anything in range (mainly dryads)

s against trees thats: each wound x D3 then each of those doing 6 furher wounds.
each attack can effectively do 18 wounds!

Edit: spellnig.

Some tips:

Anything Mv 7 or more.
If going khorne max out on characters, with the killiest weapons you can find.
Send chaos knights vs his treemen or treekin. MOK = a bucketload of attacks and saves on having to points sink chosen onto them.
A chariot should hurt a dryad unit. 2 chariots tag teaming a dryad unit should smash it to pieces.
If you have it pull out a hellcannon.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Some tips:

Anything Mv 7 or more.
If going khorne max out on characters, with the killiest weapons you can find.
Send chaos knights vs his treemen or treekin. MOK = a bucketload of attacks and saves on having to points sink chosen onto them.
A chariot should hurt a dryad unit. 2 chariots tag teaming a dryad unit should smash it to pieces.
If you have it pull out a hellcannon.

After that what is the Core army, two units of minimum size Marauders?

Beating Dryads and Treekin and Treemen isn't really that difficult.

Sacrifice small units and prevent him from moving the forests around.

I use skinks (and other small skirmishers) to hold the forests in place myself, and that ruins alot of what the tree army can do.

Let him pummel your small skirmishers with his treeman shooting. Big deal. Anything that you can sacrifice to stop him from moving is a big win in my book, because without the tree moving nonsense the army just doesn't work.

If anyone has Vampire Counts, the best unit in the game for killing those stupid trees are Black Knights. None of that 'pop out to where you can barely see me 2" in but can't charge me' crap. Ethereal movement for the win. The Black Knights absolutely destroy everything the tree army has to offer. Worse if there's a flying vampire in a block in the back waiting to come up and give some magic weapon support to the Knights.

Nurgle demons also own tree armies. Just no contest at all.

Sorry still have the old and much better HOC rulebook in my head.

Etheral mvt allows you to move through terrain without penalty.
If you cannot see them to charge you cannot charge (unless they have gone and changed the FAQ again, ignoring the main rules)

I know how I'd face them.. I'd face cheese with cheese. A couple of blocks of clanrats with the obligatory ratling guns (strength 4, magic and armor piercing attacks with high volume), a warplock engineer with a storm deamon (1 spell bound 1d6 strength 5 hits spell and 1 2d6 strength 5 hits spell) and an assassin with warpstone throwing stars (strength 5, d3 wounds and 3 shots a turn). The left over points would be spent on blocks of troops with some points spent on a warplightning cannon, a warpfire thrower and/or some jezzails. With all those ranged magical attacks, it would shred whatever tree spirits he has.
Magic the dryads to circumvent the -1 to-hit vs shooting. Target the tree man with the warplighting cannon. It's horribly random, but the ability to do a strength 10 d6 wounds magic attack definitely makes him worthwhile. Hold your fire with all your ratlings and warpfire throwers until they're approx. 15" away and open up.
With out the ranged support and scouting of elves or the speed of fast calvary he REALLY makes himself vulnerable to an army with easy access to ranged magical attacks..

i was going by the old HOC too, why split it all -_-

if possible now, try a few units of 20 marauders with flails, good WS, god Str, and great for points, should do great against dryads and tree kin, might even kill a tree man.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Sorry still have the old and much better HOC rulebook in my head.

Etheral mvt allows you to move through terrain without penalty.
If you cannot see them to charge you cannot charge (unless they have gone and changed the FAQ again, ignoring the main rules)

Thats ok.

You do still need to be able to see them.

The joy is, you are fast and they are slow. So you can move right next to them, then run if you want to.

Why are people suggesting skaven, lizards and VC when he clearly said he plays mortal Chaos?
Stelek: Chaos mortals don't get small skirmisher blocks. They can take small hound packs, though.

I agree that under the current WD your lists are limited. Choppy Lord on dragon is a pretty generic effective solution to most problems. A lord with Hellfire sword should burn any trees (do they still get that in the WD list?). Chariots are a mixed bag, though, with treesinging around. Chosen Knights beat face, but with Khorne you have to be really careful not getting baited into tree fights where you get slowed down for the rest of the game.

Use ITP against him- they cannot flee. That means limited baiting. Which is good since that is one of frenzy's biggest weaknesses.

Marauders with flails can actually hurt treekin and a treeman, but will get shredded if they are not just acting as support.

Hounds should be used liberally as 5 dog screens. Also, they can bait and flee.

I think that you would be in a bit of trouble against a Tree army, with all those Skirmishers. You could take an Exalted Champion with the Mark of Khorne, and give him a Bane Shield and a Daemonic Mount. The Daemonic Mount can take out the Dryads, and the Exalted Champion can attack as well. With the Bane Shield, each time you pass a save (2+ in this case) the other unit takes a Strength 4 hit, which is also magical and can kill a few Dryads. Two Level 2 Sorcerors using Lore of Fire can just go blowing things up.

bagotrx, fabbes collects mortals - khorne, cant take a sorceror.

Actually, he can, it just breaks with fluff a bit. But call them a blood shaman and boom, fluffy ;-)

Yup. Mix & Match is the way to go now. And Khorne has no compatibility issues with sorcerers. But as I said before, any unit with longer than a 5+ charge range, any unit with a really good (2+ or better) armor save, and any unit with magical attacks is quite good at chopping down tree units.

I agree with everything Mannahnin said, id also consider dropping the MoK on a few things just for some more tactical flexibility. Never fight something you cant beat (4 treekin in the front for instance)
Dogs arent perfect for blocking treesing, since strangleroot and fury of the forest kill the pups pretty easily but your other units have better things to do.
Death is an equally good lore to use with sorcerers since fire isnt likely to do any damage to treekin or treemen, the key to messing up dryads is magic missles, that leaves more units to hit the hard stuff. Frankly dryads are the softes thing in the army and chaos warriors shouldnt worry about them.
Keep your warriors and marauders close knit, use table edges to keep from getting surrounded.