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With all the exclaiming in awe going around about the new Space Marine codex I'm shocked I haven't heard this pointed out before, but here it is.

Razorbacks, with a twin-linked heavy bolter standard, are merely 40 points. They come with dang near anything(in a SM force org you can get 19, though it's more points than fits in 2k). That's positively insane. This approaches chariots of Khorne or Ork Boys in terms of most ridiculous underpointing ever. We are talking about a vehicle that, over the course of a 6 turn game, will kill more than it's point value in ork boys. Even if the squad never goes near it, that's absolutely a worthwile tank at that cost.

That is also a ridiculous amount of kill points, especially when you combat squad.

40kenthusiast wrote:that's absolutely a worthwile tank at that cost.

I totally agree here. I got a razorback for christmas three years ago, it's collecting dust on the shelf since then. But now, for 40pts, i'll give it a try. Also, the (ridiculous) option for twin linked plas + lascannon will make light vehicles cry themselves to sleep .
I think that they got quite overboard with all the weaponary options in general. Looks all very wishlisty...

Goodbye Rhino Rush, hello Razorback Rush.

They're quite good, but they give up KP pretty easily, and Extra Armor is still another 15 points.

The metagame will adapt -- it's not like any lists have any particular problem with taking out AV11.

Wow, if the Chimera comes out half as reasonabably priced as that it's good news for the Imperial Guard. A twin-linked Heavy bolter Chimera costs 85 points IIRC

Also, the (ridiculous) option for twin linked plas + lascannon will make light vehicles cry themselves to sleep .

The option has been around forever, just got left out of the 4th ed. book, but it was there in 3rd edition and earlier.

First model of the razorback that was made had a TL Plasma Gun and Lascannon standard.


On topic again, the 40 pts Razorback is something to consider for sure, it seems to good to be true...

I hear harping ont he fact that the Razor back can take a TL Asscan, but who cares, the Asscan costs as much as the whole tank almost (+35 pts). Not worth it IMO.

There was a razorback spam thread going on in the army lists forum that lowinor started.

I personally think Kantor, sternguard and razorback spam will be one of the more formidible armies available to the space marines. It doesn't even give that much KPs to be honest, slightly more then usual.

I hear harping on the fact that the Razor back can take a TL Asscan, but who cares, the Asscan costs as much as the whole tank almost (+35 pts). Not worth it IMO.

I agree but look at it another way -- the HB razorback used to 70 points and it was still a fairly viable unit to spam in 3ed. You pay for versatlity as the AC is nearly as point efficient in terms of points per kill as the HB, but you gain decent medium tank killing to boot. Still, I would only use them for the modelling factor. Gatling guns > single barrel guns

As I'm sure will be pointed out by others, the beauty of the AV 11 does not lie with a single razorback. Of course any list can deal with one of them. The trick is dealing with 6 of them, 3 predators, and a dreadnought or two. Yeah, it's not a hard KP to get, but it's also an easy way to contest (or claim with a squad inside) objectives. While I wouldn't count on it being in every SM list, I think it'll see some play.

Wait, RB's are 40 pts in the new dex? Damn, even those are cheaper than the Dark Angels equivalent and they have more options! First Preds and now this!

There really is no reason for me to use C: DA anymore unless I want Sammael's speeder.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

45. Cheer up Ozy! Any army with 2+ saves has a lot going for it!!!

winterman wrote:I personally think Kantor, sternguard and razorback spam will be one of the more formidible armies available to the space marines. It doesn't even give that much KPs to be honest, slightly more then usual.

This was absolutely my first thought after a read through of that codex. A lot of bells and whistles, cool stuff to do, but this really stood out as a strong army. Kantor, scoring Sternguard, lots of Tac squads, and Razorbacks galore. I like the idea of an Ironclad in a drop pod to show up turn one in the opponent's back lines/near the tanks to go on a rampage, in addition to the above. Add in some of those delicious 85 point Predators for even more fun and games.

As Polonius points out, mass Razorback spam doesn't really need to worry a ton about anti-tank, as they would be a lower priority (often, anyway) than other armored vehicles, and the massive amounts of fairly high-strength firepower you could pump out could concentrate fire on whittling down anti-tank, so hopefully a few Razorbacks make it through the AT. I know personally I've had some games that would have been victories turned into draws or losses due to random empty Rhinos contesting objectives because I kept having better targets to shoot at, Razorbacks might be able to pull off the same sometimes (especially after losing a weapon... a weaponless empty transport is hard to justify the use of heavy firepower against... until it costs you the game).

I think the SM's are way to spoilt and need to been taken down a peg or two! they get everything and everyone else suffers

Everyone laughed when I started my Space Marine Mechanized Company. Razorbacks are useless, they said!

I suddenly feel very, very good about the two dozen black and grey IFVs I have in my possession.

I completely agree about the razorbacks. I think 6 in the troop section will be the most you'll ever see though.

Being able to throw out a 'decent' volume of shots and also block line of sight for cheap is going to be pretty dern nice.

Some of you may recall the dawn of third edition where razorback rush was the true precusrsor to rhino rush.

In those days, TL plasma gun and lascannon, along with las plas squad was the rule of the day.

Now that a squad can 'combat squad', it may be even more dangerous than it was in third edition.

But then of course, other armies aren't anywhere near as gimped as they were during the dawn of third ed either... so perhaps not so bad?

Didn't John just prove this to be the way of the future with his Sisters army?

That I recall certain people poo-poo'ing.

Interesting.

Anyway, yes Mech lists are powerful--it's been obvious for a long time now that Mech is the new powerful. Glad everyone has figured out the obvious. Razorback's mounting TL Assault Cannons will IMO be the best choice in the end, with the heavy flamer being a close second.

Heavy flamer razorbacks don't have the Immolators panache but are still quite dangerous if you advance against them. Not so much if you sit back and shoot, since that generally means turn 3 before they can do anything to you.

Killing slightly less than 2 troops in cover per turn is better than all other variants (except the heavy flamer) provide, but they can also hammer other vehicles and MC's and that makes them "the win".

Forcing enemy units to stay in cover is I think one of the best tactics in 5th. I used it repeatedly throughout the GT.

Asscannon tactics are what my BT are based upon.

Mass rapid fire/fallbacks are what my marines are based upon.

Both give me mobility and limit the enemies mobility. Asscannon spamming Razorbacks have a big advantage...they can sit at 24" and pummel you, and getting 3+ cover saves is really easy for a horde of them.

Go 12", then next turn go 6" and fire 24". Only in spearhead will anyone possibly be out of range. Dawn of War also doesn't hurt the Asscannon Razorbacks too much.

If I was going to do it, I'd run lots of meltagun half-squads and minimum size at that to maximize the asscannon spam.

Probably 10 would be enough to confound the enemy. Run Choochoo train tactics and have a field day with it.

I hope to see it, and not the usual half-assed 'here are my 3 razorbacks' crap people usually do.

Stelek wrote:If I was going to do it, I'd run lots of meltagun half-squads and minimum size at that to maximize the asscannon spam.

If I understand you right that isn't going to be fieldable in the way you describe. Tactical squads will need 10 men to take any special weapon.

Razorbacks are definately 40 points with twin-linked heavy bolter smoke launcher and searchlight.

Isn't he running DA? I'm confused.

It reads to me like you're describing a yourself running a theoretical new Space Marine codex build. Could you clarify.

I have four Razorbacks for a mechanised Space Marine army designed with flavour rather than potency in mind. How withcombat squads I ironically get a gfar nastier army, but I lose my army concept as it will no longer be fully mechanised.

For me its either the easy road to victory with Razorbacks and combat squads or taking useless unupgradable five man squads in said Razorbacks.

George Spiggott wrote:Wow, if the Chimera comes out half as reasonabably priced as that it's good news for the Imperial Guard. A twin-linked Heavy bolter Chimera costs 85 points IIRC

This is the first thing that came to mind for me, too. God IG are so expensive...

I can see Razorback rush becoming a serious problem. At 35 + Weapons, it's not hard to imagine 6 or 7 of them in just abouve every list out there. It might be a small consolation, but with Razorbacks you cannot carry a fully tac squad and therefore have less Troops models that are mobile to take objectives with. I doubt that's enough though...

Ozymandias wrote:Wait, RB's are 40 pts in the new dex? Damn, even those are cheaper than the Dark Angels equivalent and they have more options! First Preds and now this!

Well they had to make the razorbacks cost less or else their price wouldn't be balanced with the predators. Also you can't compare units across codices - razorbacks are worth more to DA because blahblahblahfart.

Stelek wrote:Didn't John just prove this to be the way of the future with his Sisters army?

That I recall certain people poo-poo'ing.

Interesting.

Anyway, yes Mech lists are powerful--it's been obvious for a long time now that Mech is the new powerful. Glad everyone has figured out the obvious.

Ya know Stelek, its exactly this kind of bs that everyone is talking about when they refer to you as a pontificating, narcissistic, self aggrandizing, donkey-cave. I may very well get banned for saying this but I am so fething sick and tired of reading your gak that I simply don't care anymore. knock it off.

You are not gods gift to anything so stop posting here acting as such.

Hellfury wrote:

Stelek wrote:Didn't John just prove this to be the way of the future with his Sisters army?

That I recall certain people poo-poo'ing.

Interesting.

Anyway, yes Mech lists are powerful--it's been obvious for a long time now that Mech is the new powerful. Glad everyone has figured out the obvious.

Ya know Stelek, its exactly this kind of bs that everyone is talking about when they refer to you as a pontificating, narcissistic, self aggrandizing, donkey-cave. I may very well get banned for saying this but I am so fething sick and tired of reading your gak that I simply don't care anymore. knock it off.

You are not gods gift to anything so stop posting here acting as such.

Don't criticize my posts as 'rubbish' then when they are born out and I rub it in your face, whine like a schoolgirl about it.

If you guys can dish it out my way ALL DAY LONG, I can get my one cheap shot in.

Right? All friends? Good.

Stelek wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

Stelek wrote:Didn't John just prove this to be the way of the future with his Sisters army?

That I recall certain people poo-poo'ing.

Interesting.

Anyway, yes Mech lists are powerful--it's been obvious for a long time now that Mech is the new powerful. Glad everyone has figured out the obvious.

Ya know Stelek, its exactly this kind of bs that everyone is talking about when they refer to you as a pontificating, narcissistic, self aggrandizing, donkey-cave. I may very well get banned for saying this but I am so fething sick and tired of reading your gak that I simply don't care anymore. knock it off.

You are not gods gift to anything so stop posting here acting as such.

Don't criticize my posts as 'rubbish' then when they are born out and I rub it in your face, whine like a schoolgirl about it.

If you guys can dish it out my way ALL DAY LONG, I can get my one cheap shot in.

Right? All friends? Good.

Rub it in my face? I couldn't care less what you think, its how you talk to the community as a whole that bothers me.
Whine likje a school girl? People here like to contribute to the community as a whole, instead of expecting the community to recognize "obvious superiority".

I am frankly amazed that you are still here Stelek. Simply amazed.

HellFury,
Here is an idea,
Grow up and move on dude. Dont like what he has to say? Ignore him. Just like im going to do you after this post. And yes ive reported you for your above comments. Its out of line and uncalled for. I do hope you get banned.

Yeah it's so out of line to tell someone to stop being so malicious with their posts.

jp400 wrote:
HellFury,
Here is an idea,
Grow up and move on dude. Dont like what he has to say? Ignore him. Just like im going to do you after this post. And yes ive reported you for your above comments. Its out of line and uncalled for. I do hope you get banned.

Read my sig. And I reported you too, for flame-baiting.

PistolWraithCaine wrote:Yeah it's so out of line to tell someone to stop being so malicious with their posts.

No its not out of line to tell someone that, its about HOW he said it. If he would have said "Hey stop being so malicious with your posts!" I wouldnt have a problem with it. People on the forums here have a way of putting words in others mouths. I never said that telling him what you said above was out of line, I said How he said it was. Big difference.

whitedragon wrote:
Read my sig. And I reported you too, for flame-baiting.

Do whatever makes it easier for you to sleep at night. If you think im Flame-baiting then I wont argue the fact that your wrong. Its your opinion and your welcome to have one.
But some food for thought, technically what you just did could be considered flame-baiting. Who is to say what is and isnt and where the line is drawn.

Also dont you think its kinda childish to "report" someone just because they reported someone else out of spite or revenge or whatever? Cause thats what its comming off as.

Have a Nice day!