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So I had this idea of throwing in both Vulkan & Pedro into a list for twin linked combi melta scoring fun but then it got me thinking. Does the wording of Pedro's special rules stop the army from getting Vulkans special rules

Pedro's rules read:

All units in your army must exchange the Combat Tactics special rule and your sternguard squads gain the hold the line special rule.

So by reading this as RAW because both parts are in the same sentance the only way to make the sternguard scoring via Hold the Line is to also take the Stuborn rule preventing me from taking another characters Combat Tactics special rule change. Correct?

So by reading this as RAW because both parts are in the same sentance the only way to make the sternguard scoring via Hold the Line is to also take the Stuborn rule preventing me from taking another characters Combat Tactics special rule change. Correct?

yes

Yep, though:

Shrike + Khan are a good combo..

Lysander's Bolter Drill is seperate from his CT.

Cassius and Tigurius both care not what CT effect is going on.

Not to mention Sicarus as well. Matched with Kantor or Lysander, having an entire army LD 10 and Stubborn can be sweet.

the whole army ld10! WOW! i mean really WOW! a whole 1 point up! HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!................ i think ive been playing my orks to much recently

KingCracker wrote:the whole army ld10! WOW! i mean really WOW! a whole 1 point up! HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!................ i think ive been playing my orks to much recently

Actually, the difference between Ld9 and 10 is pretty significant because we're talking about a bell curve. Ld9 means 6 failures out of 36 possible combinations while Ld10 means only 3 possible failures.

More importantly, only the sergeant in a marine unit has a Ld of 9, and in 5th edition there are many circumstances where a sergeant can get killed ahead of time. The difference between Ld8 and Ld10 is massive.

But once you factor in Stubborn (which allows units to ignore negative modifiers), Ld10 makes a massively HUGE difference in close combat where all of a sudden they are better than Fearless units because not only do they not run away (because of the Ld10) but they also don't take the extra wounds for No Retreat.

As someone who exploited the everliving *bleep* out of universal Ld 10 last edition, I have to pile in behind Yak here. Beyond the vulnerability of Sergeants to catching bullets with their brainpans unexpectedly, what happens when you combat-squad? You end up at Ld 8 for the squad w/o the Sarge... but not with Sicarius. For certain builds of mine, he's almost a must-have.

meh, might as well get calgar for a few more points

Ah, but Sicarius doesn't suffer from the debate about God of War... and since I expect the ruling to come down on the conservative side (see my sig), Sicarius ends up better for less points on the Ld front.

You can take Pedro and Vulkan and still benefit from Pedro's +1 attack boost, though. Master-crafted thunder hammer termies with 3 attacks each mmmm.

asugradinwa wrote:So I had this idea of throwing in both Vulkan & Pedro into a list for twin linked combi melta scoring fun but then it got me thinking. Does the wording of Pedro's special rules stop the army from getting Vulkans special rules

Pedro's rules read:

All units in your army must exchange the Combat Tactics special rule and your sternguard squads gain the hold the line special rule.

So by reading this as RAW because both parts are in the same sentance the only way to make the sternguard scoring via Hold the Line is to also take the Stuborn rule preventing me from taking another characters Combat Tactics special rule change. Correct?

Can you quote Pedro's exact rule? I don't have my codex at work.

*IF* the "Hold the line" is his ability that you use in place of Combat Tactics, then Yes. If it's just another of his ruled, like the +1 attack, then no.

Eric

Inspiring Presence: All friendly units within 12" of Pedro Kantor recive +1 Attacks whilst he lives. This bonus doesn't aply to Kantor, and does not stack with the similar bonus from a chapter Banner.

edit ... this is his rule not a swap out for CT rule

Tri wrote:Inspiring Presence: All friendly units within 12" of Pedro Kantor recive +1 Attacks whilst he lives. This bonus doesn't aply to Kantor, and does not stack with the similar bonus from a chapter Banner.

edit ... this is his rule not a swap out for CT rule

The rule that needs to be quoted is the rule he swaps out for Combat Tactics.

Eric

"Chapter Tactics: If you include Pedro Kantor then all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the Stubborn universal special rule and your Sternguard Veteran squads gain the Hold the Line! special rule detailed below. If more than one character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which version will apply."

Well, there you go, then.
That clears it up. Either they get Pedro's rule OR Vulkan's, as "Hold the Line" is par of his "CT exchange" rule.

Thanks for posting it. Having the rule right in front of us makes it plain as day.


Eric

? yes but that wasn't the point of having 'Hold the Line' it was combing 'Inspiring Presence' with Vulcan's making all Thunder Hammers Mastercrafted (... yes i know you can do that with a chapter banner ...)

Tri wrote:? yes but that wasn't the point of having 'Hold the Line' it was combing 'Inspiring Presence' with Vulcan's making all Thunder Hammers Mastercrafted (... yes i know you can do that with a chapter banner ...)

Yes. The "Inspiring presence" could stack with MC T-Hammers.
That, however, was not why the OP was asking, according to his initial post:

So I had this idea of throwing in both Vulkan & Pedro into a list for twin linked combi melta scoring fun

TL Combi Meltas on Sternguard that can also count as scoring was his intent.


Eric

ah didn't realise you were talking about the OP