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Well, I´ve played WHF for a long time but just faced 2 Ogre players before I stopped. Both were no challenge for my Imperium but I like the Ogre Fluff and thinking of getting a bit back into WHF again.
But mey-oh-mey I dont know how to get a solid tourney ready Ogre List. I searched the board a bit and found some stuff but nothing really solid.
So enlighten me you "World Eaters" and show me some good Ogre Lists around 1850-2220pts or even more.

edit: Thought I´ll start with 1 or 2x Ogre Kingdoms Battalion Box and add a Tyrant and whatever is needed. Correct if that would lead into rubbish.

To start, throw out your OK armybook and buy WOC, although you dont get bull charge, the ogres in WOC are the same stat wise, and get a Mark of chaos....for 10 points cheaper.

But if you are really set on OK, I would say to go for the slaughterer special character, then go gorgers bulls and butchers.
If you arent down with magic, then Hunters and gnoblars are solid too

A few small units of bulls, and some bigger ones to back them up.....even better.

...Okay let me start off by saying this post is going to come out me sounding like a jerk, so I'll give a little heads up first.

I played Ogres. Over 50 games and lost twice. That's it. Were all the people I played top notch? Nope, but all of them were competent opponents. So w/ that in mind let me through out a few things to you....

Anyone who says take Gorgers or Special character or Maneaters or Gnoblars or Leadbelchers or Hunters all fail.

Every......
One.......
of........
them.....
FAIL

You want to win? You want to smash face.....you need the following things

1 Tyrant kitted out
3 Butchers w/ various amount of dispel scrolls(i always take 3-4) and some extra magic bits

Minimum unit of 3 bulls to sit in a corner where they belong

2 Units of 8-9 Iron Guts w/ Characters sprinkled in to make them 5 wide and 2 deep.

1 unit of Yheetes to go flying up a flank and drawing attention to them


That's it. Throw that big ol block, w/ troll guts, at an enemy...and kill them. Rinse wash repeat. My army was often times referred to as a living tidal wave. You knew what I was going to do but couldn't stop both blocks of 10. It is really brutal how well ogres can be played.

Aye, thanks a lot, that´s a base to start from.

My own thinking was to get some solid blocks of Ironguts and add some Gnoblars to fill up the points.
From my WHF experience there should be not much that´s able to really stop a charging tide of Ironguts and it seems you think the same.
Gnoblars are nice to fill up points better than nothing eh? And if you cant fit more Bulls and Ironguts into your list, take those little "no one cares of" Wimps.
5 wide 2 deep? I would like to have 5 wide 3 deep but that would cost me a ton of points.
Leadbelchers are well, I like what they can do - maybe - but hate what will happend most of the time so I wont take them for sure.

The battalion box is a great deal. But buying 2 isn't that great. The reason for this is the fact that ogre are best played as MSU. So the 4x leadbelchers in 1 box makes 2 units of specials, those ogre bulls make 2 units of 3, and those iron guts make up another unit. Gnoblars are a unit that some people take, and others leave. If you buy 2 battalions, you end up with 4 special slot of leadbelchers, 4 core of bulls, 2 or 2 and 2/3 of ironguts, and 2 big blocks of gnoblars. If this is how you want to play them, great, go for it, but personally i favor ironguts over bulls, run very little gnoblar, and only run 2 units of 2x leadbelchers.

As for tourney lists, there are a couple of them floating around. I haven't seen them here though. Ogres haven't done well at the big tourneys, because they have obvious and common foils. (shooting) Skrag lists look the scariest, because a frenzied, killing blow, terror causing lvl 4 wizard general that allows as many as 8 gorgers to be selected is very scary. As for the rest of the list, can't really help you that much, I don't run gorger spam.

For non special charecter lists, I have seen 2 basic core concepts work ok:

First one is 3 butchers and a tyrant. Butcher 1 has siegebreaker, skullmantle, 2 has bangstick and scroll, 3 is a 2x scroll caddy. Tyrant has tenderizer, greatname mawseeker, and jade lion. The rest of the army is a assortment of bulls, ironguts, leadbelchers, gorgers, and some whacky gnoblars with or without the launcher. This type of list is probably what you will see most people post on the forums, as its powerful, largely idiot proof, and not hard to win with.

The other one I've seen on a blog once, and I personally have play it to great sucess. Tooled up tyrant with tenderizor or the thundermace, and spangle shard. Butcher with seigebreaker and fist full of laurels. Butcher with gnoblar thiefstone x3. Bruiser BSB with Rune Maw lookout gnoblar, luck gnoblar. Add to this 3 units of bulls, 3 20+ gnoblar units, multiple leadbelchers, and 2 gorgers. How it works is you put the BSB, tyrant, and seigebreaker butcher all in a unit of bulls. This is your hammer unit. You run the 3x magic resistant butcher right behind and shielded by the hammer unit. The other bulls support the gnoblars, and the belchers work at taking out fast cav and rank bonuses. The hammer unit will get a 2+ save vs magic directed at it, due to the rune maw, you direct the spells at the butcher with MR3... or if its irresistable force, at a unit of gnoblars. Vs cannons you have a lookout gnoblar, and the tyrant has the spangle shard. With 2 high power greatweapons in the unit, you should be able to break nearly anything in combat. (well, within reason)

No no no...I'm sorry but no. MSU is the WORST way to play Ogres.

Every time a Ogre player goes MSU, like Dark Elves used to have to do, they will fail a lot. Why? They have no combat rez. None. They will not break anything by themselves and rely on multiple units charging the same unit. Now YES that is what MSU is about but Ogres are to expensive for that. A block of 10 DOES have the combat rez to completely smash aside almost anything the enemy can have...and more importantly not many things will be charging OR be a threat to a block like that.
I do agree w/ notabot on basic setup of the characters. I've played w/ a couple different setups and they all seem to work well. Somtimes having the spell resistance up sometimes not. But I don't agree w/ the BSB. You only need 1 if you go MSU. W/ blocks of 10 you do so much damage that the BSB is a touch redundant. I tried one out multiple times and didn't like loosing any PD, that you always throw 1 at a time, for a + whatever combat rez when I already win by 7-12 constantly.


Here's a fun story. When I started ogres there were 5 other Ogre players in my area. ALL of them did MSU. ALL of them lost constantly and could not figure out why. They thought that the Ogre army just wasn't as good as the other armies. They ranted and raved that my large blocks would not work...guess what? I did not fail in the least bit. The damage that those units can put out AND the fear the enemy will have will force them into making poor choices. As long as you don't get stuck fighting something unbreakable you are fine.

Gnoblars do work to fill up points. As long as your not going crazy w/ them they are great. It is funny when a large target charges them, they are the squishiest target, they all stand and shoot. Honestly I have never used them. Never really had the points to squeeze them in sadly. I have seen them do alright but have not personally tried them. If you try them and have any success I'd like to know.
Leadbelchers I've not gotten my points back. I know 1 person who uses them and does quite well w/ his Ogres. Mobile flankers who shoot at any fast cav than charges in to support a charge seems like a good idea. I have used them 4 maybe 5 times and honestly, compared to what I was giving up in terms of gearing up or taking more Iron Guts, it just wasn't worth it

Thanks

I´ve played Imperium for a long time so I dont need and want a idiot proof list. I rather go with stuff that needs some "skill" to get the real bang out of it. Thats more satisfiing for me and will terrorize my opponent even more. At least if it works like intended.
2x Batt Box came straight outta my head but yeah, I should go with Ironguts instead of that many bulls.
The Skrag thingy is a sth to think about. I dont like Gorger spam even if I never faced it but Skrag seems to be a nice Char in a high point list. I guess I will give him a shot at 2500pts and more.
For 2k games he seems to be a little expensive espeacilly because he shines with his Gorgers and wont cut it really without them. But in 2k games I skip Gorgers for Yethis. They seem to be a nice addition.

The shooty thing is sth I really need to take care for. I know the other end of the stick My Imperium totally wasted the 2 Ogre lists I played vs.
Cannons can be really devastating and large regiments with attachments can waste an Ogres Bullrush pretty well also. So there are two things I´m really scared of.
Another thing is the fast cavallry stuff. Leadbelchers could be nice vs them if those idtiots wont be that dumb and are able to use their cannons. So I´m left with Trappers and Gnoblars. They wont cut it vs cavallry but they can stop them for at least a round or well, I hope so. And those little wimps wont cost me much. So the plan is to get some meat on the flanks to be able to crush the center with my Ogres. After that I can take care of those light cavallry stuff.

you could still do two large units, one of bulls one of ironguts, then spam the gorgers behind them to take out artillery, archers, and force them to come to you and get the charge even sooner.
Plus OK magic is brutal.

Ive known only one OK player to use MSU, and its brilliant. I can see your point, livingregret, about the psychological factor in having two massive blocks but you can have the same effect with a football line. 10-12 units of ogres, almost all ironguts, all lined up for a blanket run across the table is either scary or misleading. Having played it i can tell you that breaking through the lines is hard, not because the units are tough but because they flee. You can only shoot/charge one unit with one unit it leaves several ironguts to come to each others aid. As for static, you get more attacks with MSU which will 99 times out of 100 counter the static CR.
Ill admit i dont like facing ogre armies with big blocks of ogres but i dont find them as intimidating as MSU because the MSU player ive faced is shows so much more skill than the others and always proves more of a challenge.

That is a good point Leith. As long as the MSU is something intimidating, like Ironguts and NOT Bulls, it could be viable and at the least more challenging. If you are looking for a more challenging list you may consider MSU of ironguts. It would be different from how I'm playing and may be fun.

Please..please Dadok don't get 2 Battalion Boxes. You will regret it. In higher point games you might want to try Skrag but in 2k to 2.25k I find he isn't worth it. Sure in 3k Gorger spam can be amusing but isn't the most effective list, albeit that does depend on what your fighting. Empire or Dwarven gun line? Gorger spam can be deadly. And Yeetis are amazing. They freak people out because of there fast movement AND they ignore terrain. Don't forget magic attacks. Sick...just plain sick.

Gun lines don't do that much against big blocks of Ogres. It is so fast you normally only have 2 turns of shooting max. Plus have Trollguts on 1 unit and +1 toughness on another unit and they are stupidly hard to take down. Which I guess is my problem w/ MSU. I love Ogre magic..it is horribly brokenly good. W/ multiple units you are forced w/ units w/ out any spell on them.

Oh trappers...forgot about them. I do use Gnoblars...I use Trappers because they scout Anything scouting is pro in my book lol

"Gorger spam can be amusing but isn't the most effective list."
Unbreakable M6 S5 T5 W4 with four attacks each that come in from any side of the board.

they also have killing blow and cause fear

Not to mention they get stronger the more they kill if you have skrag.

IDK what can deal with 4+ of these in one army....maybe thats why im not seeing why they suck?

Well if your not fighting a gun line list, which I suggested they would be viable against, what is sitting in the back for them to attack? Plus when they appear they are not charging for 1 turn soo that Organ gun you were about to jump? it's now unloading in to your face. Which is why I wouldn't suggest using Gorgers unless you are going to spam them because 1 to 2, if fighting a gunline, will simply pivot and kill them. Which isn't necessarily terrible if they aren't shooting your other Ogres.

Are Gorgers the worse thing to take? no...not by a long shot. Are they terribly Viable at 2k points? No not really because of the point investment you need to make them work. In 3k go to town w/ them but in more normal sized games it is hard to make them work w/ out gimping other aspects of your army. That is my complaint against Gorgers in a regular 2k to 2.25k list

Yeh, yeh, I wont buy me 2 Boxes

It seems there are more ways to play Ogres than I thought. Thanks for all that input now I feel ready to slap my Chaos buddies army around.


From what I read those Gorges together with Skrag can really make an impact. But that would need a solid block of Bulls/Ironguts and so nothing for low point games.
On the other hand Gorgers seems to be really nasty. Well, Yhetis and Gorgers?
I mean, I have nothing to put into elite slots except Yhetis and rare slots? Well, Gorgers are the way to go it seems.
Now it´s time to think about an army list.

5x2 Ironguts... That's a lot of points for outnumbering purposes, hence I see your point.

What sort of armies did you have the most trouble with, livingregret?

...honestly? None. I stopped playing my Ogres and moved on to different armies because very few armies I had any trouble with. My 2 losses came from this...

1st loss was against 1k Skaven. He took a list that either his list destroyed me or his own army. Ratling gun spam...not very fun for either of us.

2nd loss was against a Tomb King player. Had a giant block of Skeleton horsemen(I think 15 of em) hit my flank while Ushabti hit my front. I failed my leadership although I had a BSB in that particular list. Played a total of 3 games w/ that opponent w/ the same list(He played the Skaven)and won the other 2. He was a great opponent and I am sad he had to move to Korea

I took on everything from Vampire Count Zombie Spam, to Dwarven gun line, and the Chaos Mounted army(i gave him the army list) as well as Lizardmen Skink list and managed to win almost always by massacre.

Most my losses came from either a crucial roll failing me and really never because I made some big tactical error. I am a fairly competent player and have been playing for a long time. I love speedhammer(think Warhammer but w/ only 2 minutes a turn timed) and will sometimes tell players every thing that I will do for the next 2-3 turns as well as what they will have to do. He who controls his opponents actions will win. You can remove dice from the majority of the game

I feel that Ogres are a very amazing army and can be ungodly powerful w/ the right person playing it. I see a lot of ogre players lose and it really bothers me. It is not the army that typically is the problem but moreso the way the person plays it or reacts to people. It helps that I have devil dice

I run the MSU way, no offense to anyone who runs large blocks (I was a dwarf player, and hate being bait charged, out-ran, out-manuvered, or thrown into large blocks of things that are stubborn, unbreakable, etc...).

The way I run my OK's like this :

Tyrant - kit out (tenderizer, etc... we all know the drill)
Butcher - Skull Mant
Butcher - Bangstick
Butcher - Disp Scrl x2

I throw in one more disp scrl on another butcher 99% of the time sometimes when I play one of my friends who takes all magic I take a heart (that's the 1%).

Bull x3 (bellower)
Bull x3 (bellower)

Basic here - get flanks, corners, soak up fire, etc...

Ironguts x3 (Tyrant)
Ironguts x3 (Butcher)
Ironguts x3 (Butcher)
Ironguts x3 (Butcher)

This is solid IMO. Throw some buff str, t, regen, whatever on these units and they all hit hard (plus as it was said a few posts ago, Gut magic is great, cast on a 3+, power dice pooled, cast the same spells over and over *keep in mind the increase to 6+, 9+...* A fear spell, a 2d6 str 2 no saves spell, and the buffs) People fear these things and they aren't easily bait charged as one large block

Leadbelchers x2 (bellower)
Leadbelchers x2 (bellower)

Here's your range, and the units that whittle down ranks of your opponent (so they don't outrank you too bad)

Gorgers x2

Enough said, go kill those coward war machine crews, etc...

Gnoblar Trappers x8

Throw stuff, infl, and soak up some of the enemies attention

Gnoblar Fighters x20

Grab corners, guard flanks, soak up chrges, bait charge, do anything you want where you don't want to waste a real unit or need a clutch performance.


**Aside**

Yhets - I'm not sold on, some OK players love them, some find them less useful... I own 3 of them and haven't used them, but I will get around to it, possibly try them in an army where I run large blocks...

Hunters - Good for 1k and below - above that, they are mehhhh at best

Bruisers - If you want / need a BSB, take one, otherwise, take your 3 Butchers

Maneaters - Look cool, can be set up to do fun stuff, depends on your style, points and allocation of slots

Scraplauncha (or however you spell it) - I never used it and don't intend to either...

Slave Giant - It's a giant, and it's your slave too! OK players don't need to take one, you have enough nasty big things, and points are few and far between

What Blank described in the above, was my OK army for awhile.

It worked out pretty decent against most armies.
I think I had 1:1:1 ratio going with such list.

Now, I am running Tyrant + 2 Butchers list with 3 Dispell Scrolls
4 Units of 3 x Naked Bulls
4 Units of 3 x Iron Guts + Mu
1 Unit of 6 x Iron Gut + FC + Maw Standard
1 Unit of 22 Gnoblars
2 Gorgers

I have played 3 games with this new list.
Though I've lost all 3 games due to amazingly bad dice rolls continuously, I see a lot more potential in this list than what I used to run.

ahk3927 wrote:What Blank described in the above, was my OK army for awhile.

It worked out pretty decent against most armies.
I think I had 1:1:1 ratio going with such list.

Now, I am running Tyrant + 2 Butchers list with 3 Dispell Scrolls
4 Units of 3 x Naked Bulls
4 Units of 3 x Iron Guts + Mu
1 Unit of 6 x Iron Gut + FC + Maw Standard
1 Unit of 22 Gnoblars
2 Gorgers

I have played 3 games with this new list.
Though I've lost all 3 games due to amazingly bad dice rolls continuously, I see a lot more potential in this list than what I used to run.

I'm a big fan of 3x Butchers or none... IMO, only way you will cast enough to justify taking more than 1 as a scroll caddy.

...That 1 unit of 6 IG's I'd just either walk away from it, or bog it down with an unbreakable / stubborn unit... Shrugs, just me, I perfer mobility and balance as that's what will win you more games. But then again that's my playstyle, oh and good luck if you get terror bombed or you fail a LD roll, live by deathstar and die by it / run away with it.