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Played a game recently against an opponent who fielded 3 Deathstorm drop pods with assault cannons. These things put out D3 Assault Cannon shots at every unit within 12" (so 4, 8 or 12 shots at each unit) when they land, and effectively wiped about 1500pts of units off the board in the first turn. The rules for them are here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/ia2-update.pdf.

The game basically ended in turn 1 with him in an unbeatable position without even needing the rest of his army to arrive from reserves.

One idea for dealing with these occurred to me - putting my whole army in reserve and then hoping to turn up just after his pods. The drawback of course is that I still might come on before the pods, and if I do not, I might be too late to get anywhere near the objectives.

Any other suggestions? These things really did seem like a 'I win' button on the game.

English isn't my first language, but I think it's d3 shots , not rounds of shooting.
Literal wording:

Roll to hit using the Deathstorm’s BS4 for either D3 Whirlwind attacks or D3
assault cannon attacks against each target unit.

Other then that, taking an inq with some mystics, or making sure your opponent has a hard time landing within 12" of a lot of units might help.

And if that doesn't help, it's forgeworld rules (ie. opponent's consent). Your the opponent, don't give the consent .

If he is playing 5th edition space marines then half the pods have to drop on turn 1. Keep everything in reserve. So unless he has at least 3 more drop pods then at least 2 of the deathstorm pods have to arive in the first turn.

After they land they only get 1 shot per turn. And they are still imobile open topped, any short of high strength mellee attack or melta bombs will take it out no problem.

your an ork player?yes?

ok first this is a heavy support choice so if your playing 40k means this is all the heavy weapons he has ... you have 2 choices start off the board and watch him wast them on nothing or dump your orks in Battle wagons (or trucks) and use a kustom force field to ignore the worst of it.

so what can you take? why the best ork vehical ever ... take a Gargantuan Squiggoth its in the £12 IA update 2006... soo what does it do and how much? its a 200pts MC that can transport 20 orks its S10 T7 W8 s4+ it can be armed with 0-2 (Kannon, Zzap gun or lobba) 0-4 (TL big shooters, TL rokkit launchers or Scorchas) and 0-5 big shooters (that must be fired by orks on board)... you may tank shock (yes thats right MC tank shocking) ... You may leave CC

so that any help to you?

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I must admit I was a bit unlucky with the game against the pods - every KFF save I had to make, I rolled a 1.

Hopefully I won't come across the pods at tournaments, I can't imagine many people would want to risk the sports/comp hit from taking them (especially not more than 1 of them).

Actually, being that the deathstorm pods aren't in 5th Ed. Codex: Space Marines, he can't use them in a tournament setting.. They're nice models from Forge World and their rules are kick ass, but you don't have to worry about it in anything other than a friendly game because they aren't allowed as far as I know.

Drop pods can't fire the turn they drop down. So just move away from them when they drop. Shoot the ones you don't want to move away from.

mrdabba wrote:Drop pods can't fire the turn they drop down. So just move away from them when they drop. Shoot the ones you don't want to move away from.

You should read the rules on Deathwind Drop Pods before you make comments that show you haven't read the rules. Deathwind Drop Pods can shoot on the turn they arrive. In fact, they're required to. It's also the only shots they can take...they only shoot on the turn they arrive, then they become weaponless, immobile bunkers (but ones that can still contest objectives).

Best way to deal with them is either to keep your guys in cover, be able to absorb 4, 8, or 12 S6 AP4 rending shots, or start with everything off the board.

Also, take note that the Deathwinds attack everything, friend and foe. So the other way to deal with them (if they're coming in as reserves because there's enough pods for the SM player to drop 3 others in the first turn) is to get stuck in ASAP.

Deploy your force close together, which will help survivors make a good come-back. It'll mean he won't have room to deploy in the heart of your force.
Also leave prized units in reserve. Or keep them right in the middle of your force. Anticipate Pods with Smoke Launcher etc.

your an ork player?yes?

Never mind the mystics comment .

Still, this should make your life reaonably easy: if you deploy in a huge mass (which orks always do), you just have to make sure he can't land right in the middle of your army. And if he insists on using FW models... get a squiggoth .

Don't deploy anything on the board.

tell your opponent your whole family is dead to sachet him into sympathy
on a serious note though, use LASCANNONS

Centurian99 wrote:

mrdabba wrote:Drop pods can't fire the turn they drop down. So just move away from them when they drop. Shoot the ones you don't want to move away from.

You should read the rules on Deathwind Drop Pods before you make comments that show you haven't read the rules. Deathwind Drop Pods can shoot on the turn they arrive. In fact, they're required to. It's also the only shots they can take...they only shoot on the turn they arrive, then they become weaponless, immobile bunkers (but ones that can still contest objectives).

Best way to deal with them is either to keep your guys in cover, be able to absorb 4, 8, or 12 S6 AP4 rending shots, or start with everything off the board.

Also, take note that the Deathwinds attack everything, friend and foe. So the other way to deal with them (if they're coming in as reserves because there's enough pods for the SM player to drop 3 others in the first turn) is to get stuck in ASAP.

I see. Deathwind drop pods have no such rules for firing on the turn they arrive. I beleave you are talking about Deathstorm droppods. I made a mistake in understanding the type of pods were talking about just like you made the same mistake.


I did however look up the rules for "DeathStorm" drop pods and yes they do fire on the turn they arrive but you are incorrect in that they are weaponless. They can continue to fire every turn after they just have to pick from the one weapon type (whirlwind shells or assault cannon shells)


Boss Ardnutz. I think he just got extremly lucky. did he roll D3 on all his pods? and did they all arrive on turn2? and then hit with 90% of the shots? whats your army and there saves?

also after reading the rules those things are garbage. 75pts for an empty pod that hits friendly models as well on the turn it drops and take up heavy slots. if he is running 3 of those then he has no other heavies. thats allot to pay for something that might not even come in until turn 5 in which case it will probably do just as much damage to his own army.

I don't think you deal with them...you thank him for using it and win the game. keep all your guys in there transports until you are on top of his units and you should be fine. keep the non transport models in cover.

Is he using the marine "drop pod assault rules"? to get them in the game on turn 1? in that case see above about keeping your guys in there transports.

igore just got a shinny new IA book and its out of date ... though the old rules make them more reasonable

The Deathstorms have the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules. The game was a 3 vs 3 with 750pts each. The remainder of his army was a couple of tac squads and a commander, all mounted in drop pods, so he could elect to drop all the deathstorms in on turn 1, or leave them in reserve and drop the other two pods in turn 1 instead. Prior to the game, the guy with the deathstorm pods boasted that his pods had recently destroyed an entire 1500pt army without the rest of his force needing to fire a shot....

We had to deploy first and (presumably because most of our armies were on the board) he brought the deathstorms in on his turn 1. The first pod to fire destroyed a killa kan, two trukks, a space wolf Rhino, and a Venerable Dreadnought. The second pod to fire knocked out half the meganobz from the first trukk, a couple of ardboyz from the second, both remaining killa kanz, the space wolf razorback on our team, and most of the survivors from the Rhino. The third pod knocked out the last killa kan, two DE Talos, and the Space Wolves disembarked from the destroyed razorback. At this point we had three meganobz, half a dozen ardboyz, about 2 space wolves, a Talos and 2 DE Raiders in reserve. The opposing army hadn't lost a thing and with 2 x Belial Deathwing armies still inbound, we conceded.

it made sence with the old rules ... i don't know if you've seen IA Apoc . it comes in as a flyer and then next turn must move a min of 36" and land ... under those rules it makes sence as it gives you 1 turn to kill it ...

any one know dakkas rules on posting out of date rules? if its ok i'll post them

One important thing:

Deathwind s don't fire simultaneously, so they will potentially fire at each other.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:The Deathstorms have the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules. The game was a 3 vs 3 with 750pts each. The remainder of his army was a couple of tac squads and a commander, all mounted in drop pods, so he could elect to drop all the deathstorms in on turn 1, or leave them in reserve and drop the other two pods in turn 1 instead. Prior to the game, the guy with the deathstorm pods boasted that his pods had recently destroyed an entire 1500pt army without the rest of his force needing to fire a shot....

We had to deploy first and (presumably because most of our armies were on the board) he brought the deathstorms in on his turn 1. The first pod to fire destroyed a killa kan, two trukks, a space wolf Rhino, and a Venerable Dreadnought. The second pod to fire knocked out half the meganobz from the first trukk, a couple of ardboyz from the second, both remaining killa kanz, the space wolf razorback on our team, and most of the survivors from the Rhino. The third pod knocked out the last killa kan, two DE Talos, and the Space Wolves disembarked from the destroyed razorback. At this point we had three meganobz, half a dozen ardboyz, about 2 space wolves, a Talos and 2 DE Raiders in reserve. The opposing army hadn't lost a thing and with 2 x Belial Deathwing armies still inbound, we conceded.

Wow. sounds like a whole lotta luck there.


I also find it hard to beleave you all deployed on top of each other were you playing on a 4x4. the range is only 12'inches first turn on the Deathstorm pods. to be even physcially possible for 1 pod to destroy a killa kan, two trukks, a space wolf Rhino, and a Venerable Dreadnought I would think they would have to be in a circle and the pod landed directly in the middle. Also sounds like there was even room after all this for the 3 pods to land next to each other since all 3 had a hand in killing the units mentioned above. Did they even scatter at all?

I think you all deployed badly and there was a ton of luck on his side.

I have a problem with a lot of FW's stuff. Some of it isn't bad, but there's more than one really broken unit in their rules. Part of the problem is that you were playing a 'non-standard' game with a number of people on each side. Another part was that you were unfamilar with the ruels for the Deathstorm.

Way to deal with them.

Don't.

My opponents have to use actual legal stuff from the current edition codexes.

Ancient forgeworld and IA stuff is out of bounds.

TheBloodGod wrote:
Way to deal with them.

Don't.

My opponents have to use actual legal stuff from the current edition codexes.

Ancient forgeworld and IA stuff is out of bounds.

This is how I feel for the most part. Best way to counter some oddball unit that's not even a real part of the game is to bring another broken unit from some non-standard supplementary book. They're not legal for a reason, heh.

mrdabba wrote:
Wow. sounds like a whole lotta luck there.


I also find it hard to beleave you all deployed on top of each other were you playing on a 4x4. the range is only 12'inches first turn on the Deathstorm pods. to be even physcially possible for 1 pod to destroy a killa kan, two trukks, a space wolf Rhino, and a Venerable Dreadnought I would think they would have to be in a circle and the pod landed directly in the middle. Also sounds like there was even room after all this for the 3 pods to land next to each other since all 3 had a hand in killing the units mentioned above. Did they even scatter at all?

I think you all deployed badly and there was a ton of luck on his side.

I've already noted that we might have been better off deploying more stuff into reserve. Not having faced these things before we really didn't understand just how lethal they can be.

As far as deploying on top of each other, we weren't. On a 6x4 board with a couple of large ruins on it, the Spearhead deployment doesn't provide a great deal of room for three vehicle-heavy 750pt armies to deploy. We even spread out during our first turn but were still all well available for destruction.

I think one or two of the pods did scatter but not significantly. Essentially they all dropped in spread out about 10-14" apart, such that each could reach a fair number of our units. Two pods actually did brass each other up, but did no damage (an assault cannon needs 6 to penetrate, and none came up).

The fatal flaw of deepstriking armies is that if the opposing army clumps together, the 50% of your army that arrives turn 1 will be against 100% of the opposing army, and will either be shredded before it gets backup or have to give up its guaranteed first shot advantage.

This is why deathstorms are so effective. If your enemy does this, you get d3 attacks (ie rounds of firing weeee) against each of their units...from all 3 pods. That's 12 to 36 assault cannon shots against EACH UNIT if you can get them all within each other's bubble.

There are a few defenses.

Mechanizing will help against a single pod, but against multiples the first round will likely knock you out of your transports. You could always deploy your units BEHIND their transports, creating a wall that blocks LoS. Unless he gets an explodes! result, even destroyed trukks will block line of sight and minimize the damage to your troops

You can spread out to minimize the damage, but this plays to the deepstriker's advantage, as their army is structured exactly to take advantage of a spread out army.

The best option is to hold everything in reserves, so that he is forced to either waste those d3 attacks per unit, or drop in his troops first.

First off... Saying they're "not legal" is incorrect. They're not TOURNAMENT legal but, in friendly games, they're VERY legal, provided your opponents give their permission. Admittedly, though, it's a kind of d!ck-move to play these in such a small points force.

"Don't deploy" is, probably, the best strategy you've been offered, so far.
Another is to take advantage of terrain to the best of your ability. Make certain that you have 4+ on every unit possible.

Give Trukks, where necessary, cover with other trukks if no terrain is available to offer them cover (due to the new 5e vehicle cover saves rule).

}=Pause to read the rules={

Okay.
So, I don't see the issue, really.
STATISTICALLY SPEAKING.... presuming you're playing Orks and deploy properly (meaning: Utilizing cover saves on every unit possible & throwing the rest in transports)...

Let's say he drops all 3 within 12" of your WHOLE ARMY...
Each unit is going to have a maximum of 9 shots at it.
With BS of 4, he's going to hit 6 of those 9.
Str. 6 on T 4 (presuming they're not in a vehicle) needs a 2 to wound. He wounds 5.
With your 4+ cover save, you fail 2.5 of those. So, you lose 3 models on average, if he rolls max shots on ALL units with ALL Pods.

If you're in a trukk, and he shoots the trukk 9 times, averages say that he hits 6 times and, of those 6, gets 1 Glance & 2 penetrating hits.
That sure isn't the end of the world. Especially if the trukk gets a cover save.

How on Earth does this decimate your army?


Perhaps, I should ask how you were deployed.

Also:

Prior to the game, the guy with the deathstorm pods boasted that his pods had recently destroyed an entire 1500pt army without the rest of his force needing to fire a shot....

--Not against anyone decent... and, even then, I doubt the veracity of this claim.

Eric

Are you sure we've got the same rules (I linked to them in my first post)?

As I understand it, each pod fires D3 Assault Cannon attacks at each target. A single Assault Cannon attack is 4 shots, so D3 attacks will be 4, 8 or 12 shots.

If three pods can engage a Trukk, they will in total fire a minimum of 12 and a maximum of 36 shots at it, at BS4. If we take the averages, we are looking at 16 hits and the Trukk will suffer around 3 glancing and 6 penetrating hits. Even with 4+ cover we would expect this to destroy the vehicle.

It's also worth noting that if the vehicle gets popped by one of the first two pods to fire, the subsequent pods may well be in range to shoot up the disembarked infantry.

Boss Ardnutz wrote:Are you sure we've got the same rules (I linked to them in my first post)?

As I understand it, each pod fires D3 Assault Cannon attacks at each target. A single Assault Cannon attack is 4 shots, so D3 attacks will be 4, 8 or 12 shots.

If three pods can engage a Trukk, they will in total fire a minimum of 12 and a maximum of 36 shots at it, at BS4. If we take the averages, we are looking at 16 hits and the Trukk will suffer around 3 glancing and 6 penetrating hits. Even with 4+ cover we would expect this to destroy the vehicle.

It's also worth noting that if the vehicle gets popped by one of the first two pods to fire, the subsequent pods may well be in range to shoot up the disembarked infantry.

People always miss the "attacks," which makes it quite clear IMO that it means d3*4 assault cannon shots, rather than had they just said "d3 shots."

4-12 assault cannon shots can easily knock out an AV10 ork trukk, or even rhinos, and remember it gets to shoot at ALL of those trukks/rhinos in its range. There's a pretty good chance that the first two, if not the very first, pod will knock all the units out of transports, and the rest of the shots will be into the now vulnerable troops. With good rolling, three deathstorm pods can easily cripple an entire army.

For smaller games, I think having 3 of these is broken. At 2500 points, you may not notice the effects as much, but at 1500 you most certainly will. These things are really something that should be houseruled down to a reasonable limit. On one hand, they make a full drop pod army viable against all comers (as we usually have a problem with assaulty armies, and mechanized). On the other hand, the full 3 is quite undeniably broken IMO.