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I'm working on a Tyranid army and have been perusing various lists 'round the net. I had planned on running a Broodlord and 10 Genestealer retinue for HQ, but it seems in list after list everyone runs a Hive Tyrant or two. Are they absolutely necessary? Can I get by with the BL or warriors in the HQ slot?

In my experience the Hive Tyrant is one of the best units if equipped and supported properly. A Hive Tyrant with a full guard retinue has amazing lasting power. Just make sure you know what you want to do with him.

If you don't have a Tyrant model yet proxy one and see how you like him.

I think most people run a tyrant because he is probably the single most deadly character you can have in a tyranid army. Not only that but he is hard as nails and brings some synpase to the table too. With the variety of different builds that are available he can also be tailored to pretty much anything that you need. Like robocarullo42 said, proxy one and see if you like him. My guess is that you will.

I'm picking up a Flyrant (incomplete) from a friend and using extra 'fex bitz to finish.

Anyone who has had previous experience running a list w/o a Tyrant feel free to share your thoughts.

Wings & warpfields - Bastardly hard to kill and pairs well with leaping beasties (hormagaunts/leaping warriors).

As in, ive had to ignore the fexes in order to bring my ap2 weapons to bear before it charged which is generally did and it just nums things..

Thing about Tyrants, is that they are scary. Really Scary. Terrify your Opponent Scary. Why?
-Light AT: Flyrant w. 2x Scything talons, Toxin Sacks. 6 S6 attacks on the charge that roll 2d6 for Armour Penetration. On the Rear Armour. Anything lighter than a Land Raider is doomed, and a LR will be worried.
Plus Fast Synapse
The Biggest reason (IMHO) is that Tyrants... Look... Awesome.

Icantpaint wrote:I'm picking up a Flyrant (incomplete) from a friend and using extra 'fex bitz to finish.

Anyone who has had previous experience running a list w/o a Tyrant feel free to share your thoughts.

The broodlord is slow thanks to no Fleet and whilsta Tyrant is essential and hey he has lots of high strength attacks, you can also take carnifexes and if you want the psychic might some zoanthropes in his stead.

I reccommend trying various builds of Warriors. Take at least 18 warriors with nothing but extended carapace, scything talons and rending claws. The unit is relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things and can take on anything barring armour 14 vehicles and stand a good chance of doing solid damage at the same time. Flesh Hooks might be considered. 18 Warriors thus equipped is one heck of alot of firepower the enemy has to concentrate to pick them all off and by that point the rest of your force has hit his lines. A More shooty approach is equally viable but is more expensive, but up to you as the player.

What style force are you running?

Also to the other posters here, when the original thread opener asks for anyone using no tyrants after hearing all the stuff about pro-tyrants which in 2 sentences was "Tyrants are Good. They are scary and can be tailored how you want whilst being resilient especially with a full bodyguard!" And lets face it, this is absolute crap as far as any sort of feedback is concerned and any sort of advanced understanding of tactics. Maybe, in the future, look to what is being asked by the thread opener and expand on the points asked, because Tyrants aren't the only way and everythings aid about Tyrants can be said about Warriors, except in place of T6 and 4 wounds you're getting T4 and many more wounds with no instant death and a larger synapse web when properly spaced out.

Auretious Taak.

When I first started nids I didnt have a tyrant but a broodlord. I agree with Auretious Taak that I found him slow (no fleet) and in response to this he was gunned down in short order.

I have often though about warrior builds for my HQ but think that they lack the damage potential of a tyrant. Sure they have more wounds, but they also drop like flies to bolter fire, whereas a tyrant does not.

In short the answer is yes its doable, but it stops you from having an extremely powerful unit to fall back on or to use as a spearhead for an attack. Of course it does mean you will likely have a lot more synapse on the table (and more survivable) if you want to run swarms.

A stealer shock list can do without it, though I would personally run a flyrant to engage the really heavy duty stuff early on.

Despite what you hear from everyone, its not ABSOLUTELY necessary to run a tyrant, but as I said before, I think you would find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Please also bear in mind that I only put the tyrant into to take wounds. He is a kind of suicide unit so that the slow BL can reach the enemy resonably unscathed. In smaller pts games, warriors like Aretious Taak pointed out cost less and have a bit more survivability.

In games where I dont run a BL I run lots of fexes to take some firepower off the tyrant early on, or to stun tanks and pin troops so that they cant fire back.

Just outflank with the BL. Once your units are in reasonably close with the enemy, they won't have enough fire to concentrate on your BL.

I usually run a Broodlord and retinue with a Tyrant and retinue for my HQ slots. Running two Tyrants is fun but not the most friendly of choices sometimes. The Broodlord usually moves with the second wave Genestealer assault and if everything goes well hits right after my Hormagaunts. Most of the time he is a real target priority for my opponents so I have to be careful to move him through cover or behind the meat shield, it is nice to have so much fire diverted from the rest of the army though. I run him with feeder tendrils and a retinue of at least 8 with acid maw, it's scary what that unit can do if they hit with decent numbers left alive.

We are starting an small escalation campaign around here and I will be looking to my Broodlord in the beginning for my main synapse.

this may be wrong but cant the BL and his retinue deepstrike, or infiltrate?

Yes a Broodlord and retinue can infiltrate. The option is nice but it's not always a great idea, if you are relying on him for a main synapse point it's pretty risky. Unless you like your Broodlord and retinue to look like Swiss cheese you better get something else there fast to support them.

Well you could use a .... shoot i forgot what its called... it has praying mantis claws on its shoulders, has rending claws, can deepstrike/infiltrate... to help support it or to cause as much trouble as possible to help ease pressure of the BL.

broodlord can tear havy weapon and elites to shreds (dont get cokky)

flyrant with guard (if they can fly) lead the charge with fly warriors

behind homogaunts clean up the mess (over 100 should do )

jamunition wrote:broodlord can tear havy weapon and elites to shreds (dont get cokky)

flyrant with guard (if they can fly) lead the charge with fly warriors

behind homogaunts clean up the mess (over 100 should do )

Broodlord is slow, even outflanmking any opponent with even half a brain deploys 13 inches in from the side and youc an't charge on the turn you arrive giving your opponent the time they need to annihilate the broodlord completely.

Flyrant is a monstrous creature can still be targetted even if in a unit of winged warriors, only exception is if ina unit of tyrant guard and indeed I've done it before hold back get in range of a winged charge and unleash hell. Flying warriors are useful though expensive also and alot of people see them and take them out first as without massive numbers in excess of 6-8 then they aren't surviving the firepower directed at hem most times out of 10.

100 hormagaunts at base cost is 1,000pts.

I can get 45 Warriors on foot for 1,000pts...

Auretious Taak.

Well I have been playing my Tyranid's lately at mainly 1k to 1.5k and have not used the Broodlord or Hive Tyrant and haven't lost any games yet. I've taken on KoS, Drop Pod Marines, vanilla marines, and the Eldar.

I like warriors, and I think w/ 5th edition they are great for there points if they are packing Deathspitters and Barbed Stranglers....why? Because they might deviate some but I will still be hitting w/ that many templates dropping. Give them +1 str, scything talons and guns and watch em blow stuff up. Screen them w/ gaunts and keep Zoan's on the board as well for additional synapse and anti tank. Some games I've given them leaping by dropping a few gaunts and I use them as mobile artillery that counter charges. Works fine so far.

The big thing, I think, is that Nids have to evolve since the big changes 5th edition brought around and close combat nids aren't as effective as they use to be. The book needs a overhaul on points and some upgrades here and there...but until then, IMHO, shooty nids are the most viable right now. Lots of gaunts, warriors w/ guns, Carnifex's w/ guns and Hive Tyrants w/ guns(if you want one)

On the original question of why everybody loves the hive tyrant: From my position on the receiving end, a walking hive tyrant with a guard retinue is a ugly, two are a nightmare. Thanks to the retinue rule, that's 10 T6 wounds. Which you can't ignore, because it is a tarpit, too and a slightly dangerous one at that.

This is the most sturdy synapse creature you can run. So without the normal hive tyrant, you need either a good contingency plan or an army that does not rely on synapse.

I figure that's why Nidzilla could, in 4th, make good use of much weaker flyrants, because those needed to fulfill only one purpose (fast anti-tank) instead of two (anti-ank and providing synapse). In a nidzilla-style army, you might still not need the full hive tyrant plus retinue.

A broodlord with stealers might also be somewhat sturdy, but: A hive tyrant can be in the middle of your army, walking (and running) forward. This is not needed for protection (heck, it shoudl give cover to the other ones), but for synapse in all directions. A broodlord must be at the front (or at the sides).

So a broodlord or two needs an army tailored toward this - some kind of stealer shock list. Which nidzilla is not, which is why it is rarely seen.

IMHO.

Ok i just rememberd! it was a lictor that i was trying to say.