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I wanted to make sure i don't have any major flaws with this army list i just made.

Total=1,504pts.
HQ
Chaos Lord-170pts.
Terminator Armor, Mark of Tzeenth, Daemon Weapon, Combi-Weapon, Personal Icon.

Elites
5 Chaos Terminators-185pts.
Terminator Champion, Powerfist, Lightning Claws, Heavy Flamer.

Troops
10 Khorne Berserkers- 240pts.
Skull Champion, Power Weapon.
10 Chaos Marines-190pts.
Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon, Flamer x2, Icon of Chaos Glory.
10 Chaos Marines-195pts.
Aspiring Champion, Plasma Gun x2.
Rhino-65pts.
Havoc Launcher, Extra Armor.

Fast Attack
3 Chaos Bikers- 119pts.
Meltagun x2.

Heavy Support
Chaos Predator Tank-145pts.
Twin-linked Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons, Dozer Blades, Pintle-mounted Twin-linked Bolter.
Chaos Vindicator- 130pts.
Pintle-mounted Twin-linked Bolter.

Summoned Daemons
5 Summoned Lesser Daemons-65pts.

The berserkers get the rhino and use it to swoop in and take out any potentially scary shooty or otherwise bothersome units (such a termies)
The Chaos Lord will go with the terminators to take on any unit with an HQ (possibly deep striking to accomplish this)
The flamer unit will roughly follow the berserkers and take out anything that isn't worth them leaving the transport for, while the plasma gun squad will follow the termies and pop heavily armored infantry.
The predator and vindicator will stay back and shoot any thing they can, preferably anything potentially dangerous to them.
the bikers will turbo boost 1st turn and try to pop any medium or light vehicles with their meltas, and then charge any units that were being transported.
the 5 lesser daemons will chill till i can bring them in and help the chaos lord in case he's outnumbered.

I would give the flamer unit a rhino to get into combat and use those flamers. Keep the extra armour so it can still move if suffers a crew stunned result but drop the havoc launcher as 65 points for basic transport and fire arm protection is a bit much.

I would add more bikers to take the wounds from the melta armed ones. Also a champion with power fist to help with smacking tanks about.

I don't think you need a dozer blade on the predator as majority of time it will stay as a fire base to use all weapons. Pintle mounted bolter also won't be worth as its 24" and others are 36" and 48" means you have to move 24" to use that bolter.

5 daemons won't last five mintues. I would drop them.

Well your list is 4pts over, which isnt good. If you frop a pintle TL-Bolter you will drop it back down into proper points.

Summoned demons are terrible, drop them.

The CSM squad with flamers (would be better as plague marines) need a rhino otherwise they wont be using their flamers too often. The other CSM squad chould use one too. The rhino that you have doesnt need extra armour and the havoc launcher because it makes it too expensive for a lowly transport.

You only have 3 sources or anti-tank (one TL-Lascannon and 2 meltas. Demolisher shells scatter too much to count) so any decent mech army will wipe the floor with you. If you are unable to kill tanks efficiently then your foot slogging infantry will get out-manuvered and shot off the board.

Your lord is very expensive for a model that wont do much. A Tzneetch sorcerer would perform much better.

Your terminators could use an IoCG so they dont run away.

You dont need the TL-Bolter on the vindicator. If it loses its main gun it become basically useless anyway. It would benifit from having demonic possession though.

Overall this list is passable. Not good, but not completely terrible.

Is this a tournament list?

THere is no real "style" to this list... It isn't shooty, it isn't assaulty, it's just a middle ground list.

I find with CSM an aggressive list (in whichever phase you choose-shooting or h2h) is a better option... You do not have the ability to fight with as good a balanced list as marines so don't try it... (many will argue with this but it's my point of view)

You have 1 rhino - all AT will go on that and it should be dead in turn 1/2. Take more if you are going to take any.

Your lord is not needed with the terminators- they will kill stuff anyways that needs a power weapon to kill. Your lord is a waste of points as well... I would normally say take a DP but as you have so few "big threats" it will get shot to pieces. Either take a lash sorceror or beef up your bike squad and stick a lord with DW in there or, take a Tz sorc.

Lesser demons don't work with this list- Whatever people say they can be awesome if used in the correct way... but not here.

Always take powerfists in squads unless they have avery specific role... I used to use PWs on zerkers and the amount of times they died to MCs/walkers meant fists are so much better.

The predator needs to go either ac/hbs or tllc/lcs IMO... When do you shot at something that requires both? Some will argue with this but I have used them lots.

DP on the vindicator is an absolute must

And if you throw zerkers at termies, they will laugh at you, especially if they have IoS (which they should IMO)

Overall, I would say find a focus (close/mid/long range) and stick to it... I think this list will really struggle in a competitive setting.

so the list should be more like this???

Total=1,467pts.
HQ
Chaos Lord-170pts.
Terminator Armor, Mark of Tzeenth, Daemon Weapon, Combi-Weapon, Personal Icon.

Elites
5 Chaos Terminators-185pts.
Terminator Champion, Powerfist, Lightning Claws, Heavy Flamer.

Troops
10 Khorne Berserkers- 240pts.
Skull Champion, Power Weapon.
10 Chaos Marines-190pts.
Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon, Flamer x2, Icon of Chaos Glory.
10 Chaos Marines-195pts.
Aspiring Champion, Plasma Gun x2.
Rhino-50pts.
Extra Armor.
Rhino- 50pts.
Extra Armor

Fast Attack
3 Chaos Bikers- 119pts.
Meltagun x2.

Heavy Support
Chaos Predator Tank-135pts.
Twin-linked Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons.
Chaos Vindicator- 130pts.
Pintle-mounted Twin-linked Bolter.

and as for the power fist suggest the peps i play the most are daemon hunters and space marines, so a power fist seems like a waste of points there (not many nids at LFG)... also i don't know what to do with the extra 33 points, if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. also this isn't for in a competitive setting, just for friendly games, so i am just making sure i don't get completely mauled :-), but i really appreciate all of your advice and it will really come in handy next time LFG has a competition.

Correct me if i'm wrong I don't think its possible to have both a combi-weapon and a deanom weapon because the daemon weapon requires two hands and the deamon weapon of Tzeench is a gun in it's self,
and seeing as the points are to spare why not put havoc launchers on two of the rinos

warsmith pyrus wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong I don't think its possible to have both a combi-weapon and a deanom weapon because the daemon weapon requires two hands and the deamon weapon of Tzeench is a gun in it's self,
and seeing as the points are to spare why not put havoc launchers on two of the rinos

May replace close combat weapon with deamon weapon. May take combi weapon. There is nothing about hands.

whoops but i could have sworn that in the codex it said a deamon weapon is two handed but if it isn't thats just another good thing any way back to the list why not take 5 raptors w/meltas for 120 pts instead of the bikes

I normally use near enough the first one and its gotten me through loadsa battles no vindicator as I dont have one and no bikers or official daemons, I use tyranids as daemons as I have some but normally I dont have them all my termis are champs and a defiler gets me through 4 dcc weps go a long way and a battlecannon is good at nearly anything. Me and only me likes meltaguns for near anything. I take 2 10 man csm squads with champ power fist plasma pistol and 2 meltaguns along with either 2 10 man berzerker squads or 4 5 man berzerker squads which work the 5 man squads have lots of power weapons and plasma pistols but against nids I go for 10 man squads as a squad of hormogaunts once smashed a 5 man squad 8 hormogaunts died but 5 berzerkers did aswell

warsmith pyrus wrote:whoops but i could have sworn that in the codex it said a deamon weapon is two handed

On page 93 in the box for daemon weapons it says "requires two hands to use".
But this may not be the case when wearing termi armor.

Still need long range anti- tank.
Give the 'zerker champ a powerfist.
Drop the termi lord for a tzeentch sorcerer... maybe warptime and wind of chaos.

in the book it says that when he has termie armor he can replace his CC weapon with a daemon weapon and he can replace his twin-linked bolter with a combi-weapon, and the fact that just by him taking a daemon weapon makes him have two two-handed weps i think it's legal, but i really don't know ..... and i decided to use the extra points to equip the bikers with an aspiring champion with a power fist. also everyones been telling me to drop the lord, and i completely see the reason in that but in all the games that I've used him in he's always reached the enemy and done a good amount of damage... and he has a big role in the back story for my army. also a power fist seems like a waste when it is 25pts. i might use more in a 2,000pt. list.
so here is the new list, if anyone knows of a chaos marine upgrade that costs six points and could be helpful please tell me

Total=1,494pts.
HQ
Chaos Lord-165pts.
Terminator Armor, Mark of Tzeenth, Daemon Weapon, Combi-Weapon.
Elites
5 Chaos Terminators-185pts.
Terminator Champion, Powerfist, Lightning Claws, Heavy Flamer.

Troops
10 Khorne Berserkers- 240pts.
Skull Champion, Power Weapon.
10 Chaos Marines-190pts.
Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon, Flamer x2, Icon of Chaos Glory.
10 Chaos Marines-195pts.
Aspiring Champion, Plasma Gun x2.
Rhino-50pts.
Extra Armor.
Rhino- 50pts.
Extra Armor

Fast Attack
3 Chaos Bikers- 159pts.
Meltagun x2, Aspiring Champion, Power Fist.

Heavy Support
Chaos Predator Tank-135pts.
Twin-linked Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Side Sponsons.
Chaos Vindicator- 125pts.

oh, and again thx a lot for all of the advice!

There are no longer any restrictions on holding weapons. A demon weapon does indeed require two hands to use but the only effect of this is to stop you getting an additional +1A from two CC weapons. There was a restriction in 4th but no longer.

If you want to take a lord for fluff reasons that is fine, just as long as you are aware that it wont perform as well as a demon prince or a sorcerer.

You still dont have enough ways to kill tanks. This is the biggest fault in your army. One solution (apart from picking up some oblits) is to give both your CSM squads meltas. The Berzerker champion should have a powerfist because he gets 4 S9 attacks on the charge, which kills everything. You are actually only spending an extra 10pts to get the fist over the power weapon he already has. What i suggest you do is drop the extra armour from your rhinos (15pts to down grade a 1/6 chance roll isnt good), give the berzerker champ a PF and your vindicator demonic possession (20pts to ignore a 1/3 chance very good).

I think the terminators would be better with an extra powerfist instead of lightning claws and they need an icon.

Chaos bikes arent too hot. Theyre too expensive and die too easily. Raptors are cheaper and have more bodies, take them instead.

The predator isnt good really. They guns you've given it mean that it isnt particularly good at killing anything. Obliterators would be better (you can get more points from dropping the bikers).

If I was you I would swap the Lord for a daemon prince and have the lord in 1,500 + games. A daemon prince is so much better and would be cheaper on the points as well.

Not sure if you intended as you haven't said, but the Bezerkers and the flamer Marines need the rhinos. Plasma can be used to draw fire.

I think the lightning claws are fine. They give you the plus one attack unlike the fist, are power weapons and can re-roll to hit. I think they're better for those reasons plus won't strike last. I would drop the champion on the terminator. Only gets one extra attack and I think will all those power weapons it isn't really going to matter too much.

I agree that the vindicator needs daemonic possession. Its damn annoying when the large template weapon spends half the game not firing. Even at more risk if fighting against tyranits with venom cannons!

The three bike are okay because of T5. But due to numbers won't last long. You really need 5 or 6 of these to take the wounds until you get into range and start taking out tanks with the meltas and PF.

The predator is jack of all trades. Needs to be anti infantry with auto cannon and h-bolters or anti tank with lascannons all round. Seems you lack anti tank I would go for the latter.

the lord is really expensive as has been mentioned already, if you want something big and smashy, you can try a deamon prince, hes 110 base