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i have to disagree about the armor save issues you brought up, stacking armor saves, armor save modifiers, and 2d6 terminator armor i felt was much more realistic.

and if you think that the armor save modifier made armor worthless, then also look at the to-hit modifiers vs cover saves. the system as a whole made a lot more sense to me.

lets say you are trying to shoot someone, first you need to hit them, if they are behind cover, its harder to hit them- so there is a modifier- logical
assuming you hit them, then you would have to penetrate their armor, if they had a force field you would need to get pass the field, and penetrate their armor- it makes the target a lot harder to kill, as it rightly should, a marine in power armor out in the open should get torn to bits when confronted with a hail of small arms fire, but a marine in hard cover wont need to take nearly as many saves, and would survive. A terminator armor wearing, force field equiped chaplain SHOULD be a nigh-unstopable wall of death, Thats why you paid for terminator armor.

now lets look at the current edition, you try to shoot someone, they are behind cover, you still hit them with the same exact roll... ok... now they have to choose to take a cover save, armor save or force field? why not just be naked and in the open with a force field then? whats the point of power armor or the building you are standing in front of? Saving throws not stacking is illogical, Its unbalanced int he current edidtion so GW would just need make any force field, dodge, or other save very rare and expensive, as it should be.

now, psykers being over powered, and cyclone missile launchers being overpowered is a given, as is equipment redundency.

I don't miss giving extra wargear to special characters. Kharn with a jump pack was rediculous.

Wasn't it near impossible to down a Hero character as well?

I seem to remember the Heroes giving back a CC attack for every one they received. Does that sound right? It's been a while.

There is a local guy who still plays 2nd. Last year we got together for a couple of games. I remembered the assaults being ridiculous, but the pregame factors made it very interesting. We played relatively small games and I enjoyed them. I think when you go into bigger battles the rules expose themselves, but at the lower point limits you can have an enjoyable game.

Obselete (sp), yes. Not enjoyable, of course not.

What do you suppose a good points value is for fun skirmish games in 2nd edition?