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Hello all this is my next created Character for The Blood Ravens Chapter, as before this is based off Davian Thule from DoW II before he was blessed with Dreadnought Armour, as before please....

1. People making post could give me feedback what they think, if he too strong, weak,etc.
2. Have and suggestions on how to like tune him up or down and what should cost be
3. Would you be willing to play against him in a friendly game?

200 points- Captain Davian Thule of 10th Company, Master of Recruits -

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+4

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Feel My Fury!, Iron Will, Rites of Battle

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs:Infiltrate and Scout, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters one of Davian's favored tricks is to wait until his foes are almost upon him, and then let loose with Furious Absolution. If charged, Davian may choose to forego his normal complement of attacks in order to blast his opponents at close range. If he does so, he strikes first, but otherwise resolve his attacks as shooting. (ie, hits on a 2+, 1 reroll to hit, strength and AP as Furious Absolution.)

Iron Will- Davian's endurance is legendary, as he's faced Necron Lords and Tyranids and still survives. When Davian loses his last wound, place him on his side. At the beginning of your next turn, roll a d6. On a 3+, stand him up with 1 wound remaining. On a 1 or 2, he is truly laid low (at least for now), and is removed as a casualty.

Wargear-

Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack in close combat, tho the Weapon in close combat hits at Initiative of 1.Also grants Thule the Relentless USR

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. Grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +4 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

Woah, T5, a 2+ save, and Feels No Pain?

Seriously?

No offense, but did you think most of this stuff through before you made it?

BS6 Heavy Bolter? Yes Telion can give that, but the guy he gives it to doesn't have an 8% chance of surviving a non-Str 10 or Ap1 or Ap2 hit, or a 3+ invulnerable save.

230+, easily.

Hey you might want to put *spoiler* in the title, some people have not gotten a chance to play the game far enough to know that he becomes a Dread.


I also agree that you went overboard, look at the special characters in the Codex for some thing a little more realistic.

He is too strong. If used "as-is", I think that costing him in the 450-500 range might still be undercosted. Regardless, nobody would want to play against him.

Let's compare him to Sicarius. Both of them have comparable base stats, where Davian gains 1 pip of BS instead of WS. Both have artificer armor. Both have the extra attack from two hand weapons. Both of them have feel no pain. He has Sicarus' Rites of Battle.

This is where the similarity ends.

Sicarius gives veteran abilities to ONE squad. Davian gives them to ALL tacticals.

You have made Davian - FAR - too tough: Davian has a 3+(I) save instead of the normal Iron Halo. Davian has an extra pip of toughness. At base toughness 5, he can roll for "Feel no pain" against missile launcher and lascannon wounds. On top of that, if that wasn't enough, you gave him Eternal Warrior. Basically, what you have done here is made it so that Davian ignores 66% of ALL sustained wounds, and then ignores 50% of all wounds from ranged sources S9 or lower. This basically makes him invulnerable, as he only has an 18% chance to take wounds from things like lascannons. I am not sure that this is your intent - since with T5, lascannons already can't instant kill him.

He can shoot his gun before combat. - Before I get into how ridiculous it is that you gave him a move-and-fire heavy bolter with every special issue amunition - you failed to indicate whether he is supposed to shoot before, or after his assault move, and/or before, or after his opponent's assault move. Regardless - being able to stand-and-shoot his enemies with a heavy 3 weapon that shoots templates is crazy, considering that you gave him BS6, which means he's rerolling 1's, and then rerolling any further misses because of mastercrafting.

As far as I can tell he has no HTH weapons? Why the +1 attack on his profile?

So lets sum it up:

Invincible against shooting attacks. Has 83% chance to ignore ANY attack S9 or less. 92% chance if it doesn't ignore his armor. Due to Eternal Warrior, it will take roughly 27 lascannon shots (or 54 missile launcher shots) fired by Marines to kill him, on average rolls.

Pretty much invincible in HTH, although somewhat less invicible than against shooting. Don't try killing him without a powerfist - since even with this mighty weapon, because of his 3+ invulnerable save, it still takes 22 swings to bring him down. He's largely impervious to normal marine attacks though - it takes 216 regular marine attacks to kill him with average rolls (or 108 regular power weapon attacks).

Chucks out templates during shooting AND when making/recieving assaults.

Gives veteran skills to all tacticals. Gives his LD statistic to all marine models in the army.

To make the 200-250 point range, he needs to be far less resilient. His shooting power is ok, but he needs a gun that has less shots, i.e. ONE, and one that doesn't fire templates. A plasma pistol would be a good compromise. His veteran skill power is nuts. It wouldn't be so bad if you took away ALL his other powers.

My 2 cents.

so it a 3 wound, Eternal warrior with a 2+/3+ save and feel no pain along with changing your entire army to a special rule of your chose. Who in addition ignores the no moving and shooting rule along with the not shooting in combat rule. Then of course the normal stuff like master crafted heavy bolter and grenades.

I would try to not give him to many game changing rules just one thing that makes him special. and at some point he has to be kill able. maybe drop feel no pain and change the save to 2+/4+

From there can figure out points to match, after all he dose need to get taken down to become a dreadnought after all.

Ok thanks all again for you input, but first I Would really like to thank tho's that actually tryed to give me pointers on fixing the Character instead of just pointing out the faults, I still do appricate it but I really like it when pep can give me some advice on how to fix what they have a prob wit, thus balancin the Character out. Ok new verison of Thule, I dropped the +1 thoughness as deviant cadaver is rite he does wind up in a Dreadnought. I also dropped Stubborn and Eternal Warrior as Feel No Pain would seem more fluffy for Thule anyways then having both and the fact that he does wind up in a Dreadnought. Feel My Fury is alittle bit better defined it basically is allowing only Thule to shoot right before the enemy/Thule assaults ur/other persons unit or IC, and only on the first round of that specific close combat action and only at the unit assaulting or being assaulted . Took special ammunition from Furious Absolution, kept the close combat bouns attack he gets but changed it to wear he hits in close combat at Initiative 1, of course cause the cumbersome weapon, also made it to wear he can move 6' inches and still fire his Heavy Bolter but only at half the range 18' inches(this is just expermintal let me know what you think I have another idea cause I want him to be able to move and shoot, if possible) and of course fire it the full 36' if stationary. Let me know what you think Nd thanks all again of course I will countine to imporve so a majority would be willing to play in a freindly game.



Captain Davian Thule, Master of Recruits-

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5/1 A-3/4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Feel No Pain,Rites of Battle and Feel My Fury!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunter. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters. During an assault by either the enemy or Davian, Thule may choose to use his ranged attacks,before the actual close combat begins, and then still use his close combat attacks, but only in the first assault of an enemy unit or his first assault of an enemy unit, after that close combat is continued as normal.

Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack of having two close combat weapons, tho the Weapon in close combat hots at Initiative of 1. Also due to Thule's incredible skill at ranged combat, he may move a full six inches but only fire his Heavy Bolter at 18' inches(half of 36' inches) and of course may fire it the full 36' inches if he remains stationary.

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +3 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

And I appear again, here to offer my advice.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Captain Davian Thule, Master of Recruits-

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-5 W-3 I-5 A-3/4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

First point, 6 BS. I'm fine with that. Making a shooty captain. Second point, T5. We'll discuss this.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Eternal Warrior, Rites of Battle, Stubborn, Feel No Pain and Feel My Fury!

Remember when I said we'd discuss this? We're here. Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain, and T5, when combined with his armor make this guy unstoppable. With his 2/3+ saves, this guy is more durable than a Great Unclean One. Now, how to fix this. You gave him T5 to represent his endurance. What then does the Feel No Pain represent? Personally, here's what I would do: Remove FNP. And Eternal Warrior. Instead, give him Iron Will.

Iron Will: Davian's endurance is legendary, as he's faced Necron Lords and Tyranids and still survives. When Davian loses his last wound, place him on his side. At the beginning of your next turn, roll a d6. On a 3+, stand him up with 1 wound remaining. On a 1 or 2, he is truly laid low (at least for now), and is removed as a casualty.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunter. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

You may recall I stated in Gabriel's thread that there were no Chapter Tactics that cost points? There's also only one instance of overlap. Meaning only two characters give the same benefit. Even then, one of the characters has an additional benefit. So Davian should not give the same benefit as Gabriel. However, as I don't know much of the DoW 2 storyline (no room on my comp to buy it.) I can't outright say what should be here instead. Maybe have him do something with scouts?
As I recall, my friend mentioned that the first time you see Thule in DoW 2, he's surrounded by scouts. Maybe something like:

Chapter Tactics: After years of training recruits to move and fire, and to take time getting their targets, Davian leads an army that always has guns blazing. All units exchange the Combat Tactics rule for Chapter Tactics, which allows any unit to move as if it possessed the Slow and Purposeful USR, allowing it to then fire heavy weapons.Note that units are not forced to move this way, but if they do so, they cannot fire heavy weapons.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters. During an assault by either the enemy or Davian, Thule may choose to use his ranged attacks,before the actual close combat begins, and then his close combat attacks at Initiative of 1, but only in the first assault of an enemy unit or his first assault of an enemy unit.

The last time that I know of a rule like this is the 3E Ork codex, where bikers could do it. Following that example, let's have this rule like this:

Feel My Fury: Known for his steadfast defense of positions, one of Davian's favored tricks is to wait until his foes are almost upon him, and then let loose with Furious Absolution.
If charged, Davian may choose to forego his normal complement of attacks in order to blast his opponents at close range. If he does so, he strikes first, but otherwise resolve his attacks as shooting. (ie, hits on a 2+, 1 reroll at 6+, strength and AP as Furious Absolution. He may also fire a Godsfire shell.)

Now, this reins in a specific problem with davian, which was the 7-8 attacks in the first round of any combat. Now Davian has to choose whether to try his luck in HtH or just fire.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that can fire all the Special Issue Ammunition and due to Thule's incredible skill at ranged combat can be fired even if Thule has made a move in the movement phase.

I have a few problems here. Firstly, the rule is Relentless. Either give it to him or say the gun grants it (I can be nitpicky about things like that). Secondly. The Special Issue ammunition. Since you have no special rules associated, ALL OF THESE ARE A STEP DOWN. I capitalized that because I wanted you to note that. you can fire 3 strength 5, AP 4 shots(normal), or a S4, AP5, ignores cover, rapid fire if you're in 24" (dragonsfire), an 30" S4 AP4 Rapid Fire, etc. So, he's going to need different rules. Here's what I suggest.

Furious Absolution: Forged just prior to the Vespa Crusade, this heavy bolter grants the enemies of the Emperor the absolution of Death. At the climax of the crusade, Davian Thule wielded this weapon during the Assault of the Black Abbey. This is a Master-crafted Heavy Bolter that grants Thule the Relentless USR. Furthermore, he carries a large amount of modified Hellfire shells, known as Godsfire shells, which allow him to fire it with the following profile.

Range: 36" S:X AP:5 Heavy 1, Blast, Ignores Cover, Poisoned (2+)

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +3 invulnerable save.

I personally am against seeing a ton of 2+/3++ characters in the SM. I'm fine with him having Artificer Armor, but let's re-work the "Gift" for more interesting results.

The All-Seeing Eye: After losing his right eye to a Necron Lord during the Kronus Campaign, the Tech-priests of Mars gifted Thule with a Bionic one, that supposedly had been "personally" blessed by the Omnissiah. The eye allows Davian to react to threats slightly before they occur, granting him a 5+ Inulvnerable saving throw. Further, Davian may always measure to a unit before deciding to where to fire. Finally, he reduces enemy cover saves by 1.

Lord Chiasson wrote:
Frag & Krak Grenades

No comment.

Ah, you did a re-write while I was working on it. I'll take a look tomorrow, I've got to get to sleep.

AllWillFall2Me wrote:Ah, you did a re-write while I was working on it. I'll take a look tomorrow, I've got to get to sleep.

lol yeah sry

Captain Davian Thule, Master of Recruits-

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5/1 A-3/4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+3

Good for the most part, except that Invun. I'll get back to that later.

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Feel No Pain,Rites of Battle and Feel My Fury!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs: Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunter. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters. During an assault by either the enemy or Davian, Thule may choose to use his ranged attacks,before the actual close combat begins, and then still use his close combat attacks, but only in the first assault of an enemy unit or his first assault of an enemy unit, after that close combat is continued as normal.

Okay his special rules. Why does he have the exact same Chapter Tatics to Gabriel? IMO you should do something to seperate them. aybe you should split the specials traits like Thule gives infriltrate and Tank Hunters, where as Gabreil gives Scout and Counter attack?

Moving on to Feel My Fury. You should stat quite clearly when it happens. Like after declaring assualt, but before the assualt move is made.

Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack of having two close combat weapons, tho the Weapon in close combat hots at Initiative of 1. Also due to Thule's incredible skill at ranged combat, he may move a full six inches but only fire his Heavy Bolter at 18' inches(half of 36' inches) and of course may fire it the full 36' inches if he remains stationary.

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +3 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

Most of his wargear is good, Furious Absolution and the Mantle of Kronus I don't see a problem with. However, I do see a problem with Gift of the Machine Spirit. Garbriel already haas a 3+ Inuv and it makes sense with his Daemonhammer, but why does Thule have a 3+? Do you just want him to live longer? IMO give him back Eternal Warrior, have Gift of the Machine Spirit give him Feel No Pain, and Reduce his Inuv to the normal 4+.

This is a lot better, but STILL too good. What kind of points value are you looking at? Using the other Space Marine special characters as a benchmark - he shouldn't be more than around 200-250 points. For that points value, you typically get a Chapter Master + 4-5 abilities.

Example: Captain Sicarius

Ability 1: Feel no Pain
Ability 2: Coup de Grace
Ability 3: Rites of Battle
Ability 4: Veteran Skills for one unit
Ability 5: Reroll initiative
~50 points of wargear.

Let's take a look at the "New" Davian - Chapter Master Stats

Ability 1: Feel no Pain
Ability 2: Rites of Battle
Ability 3: Feel my Fury!
Ability 3a: Move and Fire heavy bolter
Ability 3b: Special Issue ammunition
Ability 4: 3+(I)
Ability 5a: Chapter Tactics - Scout
Ability 5b: Chapter Tactics - Tank Hunter
Ability 5c: Chapter Tactics - Counter Attack
Ability 5d: Chapter Tactics - Infiltrate

Realistically - Davian has the equivalent to 10 abilities (i.e. abilities which can NOT be bought as wargear)! Now to fix this!

Ability 1: Feel no Pain - OK
Ability 2: Rites of Battle - OK - but largely unneccesary. I'd be tempted to drop this power as well.

Ability 3: Feel my Fury! - OK
Ability 3a: Get rid of his heavy bolter. It just makes the rules clunky, as you have to break core rules in order to make it work. You could fix this by giving him: Furious Absolution: Relic from the Chapter armory: Combi-melta built into a Stormbolter. The stormbolter has 2 shots at 24, so you could eliminate balance issues stemming from range. It is also now an assault weapon meaning he can charge after firing it without breaking any core rules.

Ability 4: Two options. Drop his artificer armor and feel no pain and keep his 3+(I) save. Otherwise, stick with his Iron Halo.
Ability 5: His Chapter Tactics ability is too much. Nobody else's Chapter Tactics gives so many options. Either narrow its targets to fewer models, or make it a single choice. I'd be tempted to drop this all together and instead give "Feel my Fury to any squad he's attached to - this would obviously have pretty disgusting ramifications if he's attached to a squad of sternguard or a fully kitted out tactical squad.

I don't think the heavy bolter being able to fire while on the move is too much. Deathwatch can do that and still get hellfire rounds. I do agree maybe dropping Rites of battle would be nice.

Here is kinda of a quick redo im defiltly keepin the new Chapter tactics as suggested by arinnoor, thank you again


Captain Davian Thule, Master of Recruits-

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5/1 A-3/4 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+4

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Eternal Warrior, Feel No Pain,Rites of Battle and Feel My Fury!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs:Infiltrate and Scout, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters. During an assault by either the enemy or Davian, Thule may choose to use his ranged attacks,before the actual close combat begins, you must declare this before the assault begins tho, and then still use his close combat attacks, but only in the first assault of an enemy unit or his first assault of an enemy unit, after that close combat is continued as normal.

Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack of having two close combat weapons, tho the Weapon in close combat hots at Initiative of 1. Also due to Thule's incredible skill at ranged combat, he may move a full six inches but only fire his Heavy Bolter at 18' inches(half of 36' inches) and of course may fire it the full 36' inches if he remains stationary.

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +4 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

Looking good rules wise. For Points about 200-225 I think would be apropriate.

Yeah I was thinkin 225, if anyone else has suggestions feel free

I'd rather see him with FNP instead of Eternal Warrior. Eternal warrior doesn't help him at all vs. low powered attacks, and makes him artificially durable vs weapons that should smear him due to instant kill. With FNP, he'd be twice as durable vs. low powered attacks, but still succeptable to getting smeared by powerfists and lascannons...

Right now, he's walking around the battlefield taking lascannons and demolisher shells straight to the noggin, while exclaiming: "Pshaw, that was only one wound. Got to shoot me with 12 more shots to kill me."

With FNP, I think 230ish sounds about right. With Eternal Warrior... I don't know. He could easily spend the entire game in combat with an Ironclad dreadnought, and the dreadnought has a pretty high chance of NOT killing him. To me, that is wrong. Chaos guys get eternal warrior, but their invulnerable save is only 5+, making it pretty useless.

Thanks all for input new version, and especially thanks to AllWillFall2ME again and keezus , both big help. I droped Eternal Warrior, special ammution. Took AllWillFall2Me's Iron Will, Feel My Fury! and his idea for Furious Absolution thank you really liked the ideas and helped things to become more simple. Kept Chapter Tactics cause I divded the veteran rules between Angelos and Thule, mite change both of there Chapter Tactics to make them more unique not sure. Plz feel free for any more suggestions


Captain Davian Thule of 10th Company, Master of Recruits-

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+4

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Iron Will, Rites of Battle and Feel My Fury!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs:Infiltrate and Scout, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters one of Davian's favored tricks is to wait until his foes are almost upon him, and then let loose with Furious Absolution. If charged, Davian may choose to forego his normal complement of attacks in order to blast his opponents at close range. If he does so, he strikes first, but otherwise resolve his attacks as shooting. (ie, hits on a 2+, 1 reroll at 6+, strength and AP as Furious Absolution.)

Iron Will: Davian's endurance is legendary, as he's faced Necron Lords and Tyranids and still survives. When Davian loses his last wound, place him on his side. At the beginning of your next turn, roll a d6. On a 3+, stand him up with 1 wound remaining. On a 1 or 2, he is truly laid low (at least for now), and is removed as a casualty.

Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack in close combat, tho the Weapon in close combat hits at Initiative of 1.Also grants Thule the Relentless USR

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +4 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

I'm okay with this guy, just want to point out that Captains come with Iron Halos (4++) base. Maybe you could change your Gift of the Machine Spirit into the ability to reroll one failed saving throw per game. I'd cost this guy at maybe 215.

I think Rusty Knight's idea is a good one. Points value also seems fair.

I was wanting to keep Gift of The Machine Spirit, its basically an Iron Halo but just named differnt for fluff reasons . Maybe make him bit more expensive for keepin it?

I was thinking 200 for this guy?

ok current verison of Davian Thule, let me no what you think have point cost at 200

200 points- Captain Davian Thule of 10th Company, Master of Recruits -

WS-5 BS-6 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-+2/+4

Special Rules-
Independent Character, And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics or Chapter Tactics,
Iron Will, Rites of Battle and Feel My Fury!

Chapter Tactics- The Blood Ravens have been known to "adjust" their interpretation of the Codex Astartes based on the foe they face. All units may exchange Combat Tactics for Chapter Tactics, which allows all tactical squads to gain one of the following USRs:Infiltrate and Scout, his company veterans being highly adept at these. The rule must be chosen before deployment, and all tactical squads must gain the same rule. Veteran squads have trained too long in their discipline to gain the benefit of this "adjustment".

Feel My Fury!- Captain Davian Thule is known for his expert marksmanship, even at close quarters one of Davian's favored tricks is to wait until his foes are almost upon him, and then let loose with Furious Absolution. If charged, Davian may choose to forego his normal complement of attacks in order to blast his opponents at close range. If he does so, he strikes first, but otherwise resolve his attacks as shooting. (ie, hits on a 2+, 1 reroll at 6+, strength and AP as Furious Absolution.)

Iron Will: Davian's endurance is legendary, as he's faced Necron Lords and Tyranids and still survives. When Davian loses his last wound, place him on his side. At the beginning of your next turn, roll a d6. On a 3+, stand him up with 1 wound remaining. On a 1 or 2, he is truly laid low (at least for now), and is removed as a casualty.

Wargear-
Furious Absolution- Forged just before the Vespa Crusade this heavy bolter is the absolution of death to the enemies of man. Davian Thule himself wielded this weapon during the assault on the Black Abbey at the climax of the crusade. Counts as a master-crafted Heavy Bolter that gives thule the benefit of +1 attack in close combat, tho the Weapon in close combat hits at Initiative of 1.Also grants Thule the Relentless USR

Mantle of Kronus- A suit of masterly crafted artificer armor given to Thule after his successful Campaign on Kronus. Upon this armor is etched a record of each battle that took place during the Kronus Campaign. An Apothecary noted the etchings when tending to a fallen brother at the end of the bloody campaign and handed it over to Blood Ravens chaplains who blessed it as a chapter relic. grants +2 armor save

Gift of The Machine Spirit- During the Kornus Campaign, Thule was wounded by a Necron Lord before he fell the foul creature. His right eye was taken and replaced by a Bionic one. Tho a simple procedure, there was more at work then the careful hands of The Techpriest, for after that day Thule has not been struck ever since, some say protected by "Omnissiah" himself. Grants +4 invulnerable save.

Frag & Krak Grenades

Current version targeted point cost 200-230 points

220 pts. easy. I'm glad you were able to trim it down though...

thanks and thank you for point cost

No this post is dead but put up poll(should have done right after he was balanced RAWR!) anyways let me know with your votes please and thanks