| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2009/05/09 23:44:31
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
I'd like some opinions on this:
Is uppgrading a multi-shot coaxial weapon with a blast marker still on the friendly edge of 'playing to win', or is it a a quick step onto a slippery slope?
Just FYI: in the VDR you can give a weapon a blast marker if it has none, or upgrade it once (3" to 5") for a set price. If it is a multiple shot weapon it gains a marker for every shot. (Yes this means you can have an assault cannon that shoots 4 STR6 AP4 blast markers which have rending). So, if you give say, a coaxial Autocannon, the blast upgrade, it shoots 2 markers which all but guarantees a hit letting the main gun reroll (to hit, or scatter), not to mention heavily increasing the average number of hits scored by the autocannon itself. (Note that the VDR forbids using the blast uprgrade to go beyond 5" markers, but it's clear in the text that this was simply because there WEREN'T any at the time. We allow the blast upgrade to be applied once to any weapon; Since none of the weapons available to a VDR user have larger than a 5" marker, 7" is our new maximum.)
Opinions?
|
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
 |
|
2009/05/10 00:02:02
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
|
VDR = Not Current
VDR = Really, really old
VDR = Ask your opponent first
VDR = No set way to deal with things because it is so damn old.
VDR = Should not be used, just make a Apoc Datasheet from scratch.
|
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail. 
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 00:08:43
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
Thanks for your opinion on the ruleset as a whole. So from here on out, shall we just assume I agree with absolutely NONE of those statements, and comment on the actual QUESTION?
EDIT: Ok I agree with opponent's permission comment, but I was pretty sure it didn't need to be stated. I HAVE opponent's permission.
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/10 00:10:39
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 00:13:43
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
|
Lordhat wrote:Thanks for your opinion on the ruleset as a whole. So from here on out, shall we just assume I agree with absolutely NONE of those statements, and comment on the actual QUESTION?
Gwar! wrote:VDR = Should not be used, just make a Apoc Datasheet from scratch.
That is my comment. Don't use the VDR and do things the current way. If you insist on using the VDR, then no, you cannot up the Blast to beyond 5" because the VDR rules say you cannot. The fact there was no 7" or 10" blast back then is irrelevant.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/10 00:14:10
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 01:10:22
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
Lordhat wrote:
Is uppgrading a multi-shot coaxial weapon with a blast marker still on the friendly edge of 'playing to win', or is it a a quick step onto a slippery slope?
Opinions?
And this was my actual question. The upgrading blasts bit was just a commentary, our group has agreed to allow it in our Apoc games.
I guess I wasn't clear enough, I'm not asking for a RULES clarification, I'm asking if the above is too much cheddar to still be considered friendly play. Maybe should have posted in discussions instead.
EDIT: And without a structured format (like the VDR)to create vehicles, I believe my group would just throw balance out the window. I don't think 'just make a datasheet' is an option.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/10 01:12:27
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 01:31:41
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
|
Lordhat wrote:EDIT: And without a structured format (like the VDR)to create vehicles, I believe my group would just throw balance out the window. I don't think 'just make a datasheet' is an option.
Well, that just says droves about your gaming group I reckon.
|
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 01:35:50
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
It's what I've got. We are a very copacetic group when given rules; Free Reign is a dangerous thing when given to a group of big imaginations, it can overpower even the most levelheaded.
|
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 08:53:00
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
I think perhaps a big problem with this is that you posted it in the YMDC forum when it is really more of a proposed rules question.
I'm going to move it to that forum and hopefully you can get more of the responses you're looking for.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/10 09:53:26
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
Thanks.
|
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/11 15:49:46
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
Since the whole purpose of a co-axial weapon is to help aiming, doesn't a blast weapon defeat the point?
Because the blast nicks the enemy tank that means that the main gun is bang on target?
I wouldn't allow you the co-axial bonus for the main gun.
|
|
|
|
|
2009/05/11 16:12:31
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I think upgrading a co-axial weapon to be a Blast weapon is heading down the slippery slope and would recommend against it. It just seems a little over the top.
But, I do recommend doing whatever your group considers the most fun. I always thought VDR was a fun part of the game, but realize it doesn't have a place in 'regular' 40k. APOC is a great place for it, and I wish they'd update the rules.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/11 16:13:59
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer |
|
|
|
|
2009/05/11 18:33:42
Subject: Apocalypse and VDR
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
I think Co-Axial Blast is only good if you are linking it to a blast weapon. In other words, a coax blast for a battle cannon would make sense, but a coax blast for a lascannon would not to me. Just from a fluffy, "would this work?" standpoint.
However, in game, I don't think I would allow it for balance reasons. I think that the costs reflect blasts or coax, but not the synergy therein, as VDR was not written at a time when blast markers only deviated instead of missing entirely. Maybe if you increased the costs of both upgrades by 20% when taken together or something.
Still, probably easier to just say "No, you can't."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
