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Daemon Prince changes, in case any one was wondering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c84n5FiD7Ko

Gets a lot of mortal units* (but not all, esp not Chosen), and they aren't locked to glory the way daemons are. Still need buildings to recruit them though, doesn't use the Warriors warband mechanic (which isn't a surprise, but should be stated).

God dedication for each city still dictates which units you can recruit, so not a lot of options for pure undivided.

Didn't catch if his own skill tree still sucks or not.


----
*its worth noting that several youtubers have mentioned that the full chaos rosters requires Immortal Empires (which requires games 1 and 2) AND the Champions of Chaos DLC. And there are some FLC warrior units for everyone but khorne (who had more warrior units already), so don't lose track of that either, if it isn't included in the base update (which is often true of FLC).

So here's a weird thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQXz-nNi58s

Vampire Ascension has triggered, and the Red Duke of Mousillon has come back. But he doesn't have any territory so is suffering attrition on all the stacks that spawned. See around 14:30.
Not sure who they start at war with in the Endgame scenario, but one of the Norscan factions holds most of the Bretonnian coast, so they're wandering vaguely inland to find targets, taking attrition along the way.

Video teaser/highlight reel for patch notes.

Actual patch notes will come tomorrow in readable form, which is slightly more sane.

Compression, I'd assume. Its just the download size, not the final install size.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-200/

Lots of stuff, but you need to scroll down a bit to a 'table of contents' section, and then the real information starts.

quite a bit of information was already out and about, but there's some interesting intent notes here and there, along with the whole compilation in text (rather than what streamers think is going on).

Auto-war with daemon factions is gone, for example.

Reload times (ranged units) got a UI and mathematical overhaul

Anyway, there is a lot. I'm a bit excited.

Anyone played it yet? It's bed time here so it'll be tomorrow evening before I get it fired up.

Got half the workday left. I'll get home, get it started, exercise the dog, exercise myself, have dinner and (hopefully) settle in.

-------
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So....
2.1 is scheduled for two weeks from now

While there will be room for Hotfixes in the event of any critical issues, the first expected release is UPDATE 2.1, which is already scheduled to arrive two weeks (September 6)

2.2 in October.

2.1 will include
-Belakor, if you didn't unlock him by winning the RoC campaign.

-Tzeentch Doom Knight model update. (And they'll be made available to Sigvald, Archaon, Kholek and Vilitch)

-Limited confederation of other Warriors of Chaos factions for Archaon and Be'lakor

-Ultimate Crisis (all end game scenarios simultaneously)

-miscellaneous other stuff.

They mentioned moving Skrag (to somewhere else) and Kairos (to the southern wastes), no idea if that will happen in this update.


Hmm. I was pondering opening with a Archaon campaign (for all the chaos options), but now I think I'll wait.
Maybe I'll stick with a non-IE Valkia campaign after all.

Yeah, what I've seen on playthroughs, by about turn 45-50, the number of factions has dropped from 275 to about 180.
It includes the piddling starter factions that often exist just to be the tutorial battles.


So, wanted to test something out, and started Vlad and Isabella. Actually, Isabella and Vlad, because that's insane.
Vlad keeps his Vanguard deployment (whole army) and siege attacker traits as a hero, plus you get Isabella's pile of bonuses for embedded vampires (which includes vlad!) and extra +3 capacity for vampires, and the rank 1 building in Castle Drakenhof that lets you recruit vampires (which you can start building turn 1).

I think that's worth giving up Vlad's +10% campaign movement range.

I'm at turn 35 in Valkia's Champions campaign. Its... weird.
She starts in Frozen landing, and everything in that part of Norsca is so stretched out she really loses out on her movement bonuses- there just aren't enough fights and settlements. (and the port in that particular Dark Fortress is crippling. It eats a building slot for a minor growth bonus and that's it. Well and a better chance for marauder horsemen in local recruitment which... don't care.).

And while she can get Sorcerers, it seems wrong to drop them in her army (though I've got an undivided lord I'm keeping that way, and I'm giving him a metal sorcerer).

But I ended up meandering through Norsca and vassalizing tribes (they aren't doing much), took out Vilitch and the Daemon Prince, and turned back toward Kislev, because Konstantin was getting aggressive.

Somehow Ostland took Hellpit (don't know if they worked with one Kislev tribe or the other).

The whole souls for Zanbaijin thing hasn't popped yet. It doesn't really feel like there is a campaign here, just conquest on the weirdly squished map. But Warriors of Chaos are a lot more fun. And a LOT of choices/customization. I look forward to the undivided lords in IE, once they do the next patch.

 SkavenLord wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Tooled around with Archaon, was kicking ass and taking names until I got to the Plains of Zharr. Then I got sad that we don’t have Chorfs yet. I’m such a greedy piglet! A wealth of content that will last me years and I’m focused on the next(hopefully) DLC…

How is WoC in IE anyway? Haven't heard much reaction to it. Is it an improvement over Mortal Empires?

Vastly.

Its also very different, so if you liked the horde style, you're out of luck.

But there's a lot of customization options for characters, units, even your subfaction as a whole (depending on who your lord is) with different ways to get units, as well as events goals, new items, altered skill trees, gifts of chaos, earnable traits (like ogre big names) and just... so much. Staying undivided, dedicating to a god and for generic lords, becoming a daemon prince is a huge decision that dramatically affects how the army plays. And that aspect of Legendary Lord you start with influences all of that significantly (Archaon and Kholek (oh, yeah, and Bel) look far more interesting to me in that respect, but I'm not 100% sure what other effects Kholek has on the faction)

The Dark Fortresses (the settlements you want to occupy) are a little disappointing, just because there is basically a set build that you want to prioritize (money, defense and growth for tier 1 and 2) and they're expensive to build in and ultimately kind of not important (because you don't recruit directly from settlement buildings). But there are some important bonuses lurking in the background, and, of course, access to heroes (which are amazing in their own right).

Unit upgrades in the warband system are interesting. They can be limiting (they need to rank up and their are tech limits), but if you like carrying your starting units through your campaigns, naming them and treating them as a roleplaying thing, this is hands down the best faction, as your shoddy marauders can rise in the ranks to chaos warriors, knights or even chosen. Or even aspiring champions or Skullcrushers, depending how you mark them (aspiring champions are undivided only, which is... interesting). If your aspiring champions fail you, you can even turn them into chaos spawn.

I suspect I could spend the next couple months just playing chaos campaigns and not be bored.

I didn't really mess with the Path to Glory mechanics, like dedicating a hero to a specific god, but they seem like a reskin of the Bretonnian "Quest" mechanic, in some fashion. I could be wrong though.

They aren't. Each characters gets three traits, randomly(ish) assigned that are unlocked under certain conditions (win 5 battles, win against a caster, win with 2 chosen units in the army) and then just get that trait forever. Its a more generous version of ogre big names, unlike bretonnian quests, you don't need to make choices and then try to achieve them.

Marking involves just hitting level [5] and spending souls. It resets the character at half their current level as, functionally, a new character. Same way daemon heralds could become greater daemons in the base game.

Becoming a Daemon Prince (for lords) works like marking, just with a higher level. (30). I'm not actually sure its worth it. I'd rather have the armor and the chaos dragon. (and a focused spellcaster hero)

2.1 update, on time!

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-210/

The Total War: WARHAMMER III Assembly Kit has arrived for our amazing modding community!

The High Elf Archmage is no longer unstoppable when mounted on a dragon.

The Warriors of Chaos can now subjugate all human and elven races.

Archaon and Be’lakor can now confederate other Warriors of Chaos factions upon capturing their final settlement.

Added an Ultimate Crisis setting to trigger ALL endgame scenarios in the same playthrough (only for the strong-willed and stout of heart).

All Legendary Lords now begin with the Siege Attacker trait.

Improvements to the Dwarfs—they are gaining spell resistance, additional movement options, and buffs to their Hammerers.

Stationary vortex spells have been rebalanced so that targets have a chance to react.

Helman Ghorst is getting some necessary tweaks to bring him into balance with the rest of the battlefield.

Domination Battles will see rule changes to help them last longer (and will continue to see changes in future updates).

The Empire will receive reduced penalties to their Imperial Authority when they incur their first losses.

Regiments of Renown units are now available to the appropriate factions, and costs have been reduced for units that were asking for far too much.

Not sure about the changes to vortex spells.

Don't really like just handing out siege attacker to every LL. Feels real lazy.

There are a lot of details further down the blog post.

----
2.2 is slated for October, and will move a couple lords around. (Teclis, Skrag, Kairos, and Alith Anar.) Some other things, but nothing that stood out beyond a general vague 'update to confederations'

past 2.2:

Settlement Battles

A point of feedback since release, we are continuing to look at how to improve Settlement Battles based on player feedback. Unfortunately, this is a complicated matter to untangle and fix, so we will be looking at what incremental changes can be made in 2.2 as we work on larger changes for future releases. Rest assured that we hear your concerns and will be looking for opportunities to improve the Battles in the future.

 Overread wrote:
It's probably needed considering that every town is a siege battle now; at least it can speed things up by one turn

??
Only settlements with walls (province capitals by default, or tier 3 minor settlements with wall upgrades). The buildable crap doesn't constitute a siege.

I don't think so. When I was messing around with various chaos lords the other week, dogs, trolls and dragon ogres seemed about even in taking out gates, and ate through them in about the same time it took to get marauders and warriors really engaged on top of the walls.

Everything sort of swept in together.

They aren't a stop gap for settlement battle changes.

Sieges and settlement battles are separate things, even though, yes, sieges are of walled settlements.

But they're separate maps and CA treats them differently.

----
Personally, for me the biggest problem with the settlement battles is the terrain (large buildings and multi levels) actively fighting against the camera and unit selection.

If I could see through and select units through buildings and other terrain, many of the problems would go away.

The rest is solved by widening the limited gaps and 'roads' and by a LOT of work on unit pathfinding (and that's a bear that can eat a lot of computing power, I don't actually see them fixing that. More open settlements is a much easier fix, though it involves redoing all the maps)

2.4 update happened. Its kind of whatever. Vague promises of exciting things later.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-240/

If you were deeply offended by cloak animation problems and Karak 8 Peaks not being a 10 slot settlement for skaven, this is the patch for you.


Also Immortal Empires is available to everyone, but you still don't get access to any race from games/dlc you don't own, so...
I guess this is really exciting for someone, but not sure who.

Only if you're set on sticking to the TW3 armies. If you want to play anything else, you still need to buy.

 nels1031 wrote:
Some sweet, sweet Chaos Dwarf tease at the end of their video.

Not sure 10 seconds of a mine is 'sweet,' but the several minutes recreating the Council of Rivendell with warhammer characters didn't do much for me.

Overead wrote:Or wait until one of the regular sales when Warhammer 1-2 go down to much lower prices.

I was surprised to find the old games are still $60. That's kinda absurd.
But I expect they'll be discounted of the Steam Spring Sale in a month, so people should probably wait for that.

 Overread wrote:
Not even that long, they will likely one or both be on sale during Easter. Sales are so often on Steam that many developers don't lower the price of the main product because there's a sale around the corner and a good portion of people who will only buy if something is on sale.

Er, the spring sale is March 16-23. This isn't a rumor, steam announced the change last september- https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3282583269823858400
Easter is April, which is almost another month after that.

So its better to have a higher base price and more profits between sales and then more people grabbing the game during a sale because its 80% off; than it is to have a lower base price and the either no sale or only a small percentage during a big sales event.

I don't agree with that at all. Years old games have no business still being at release list price. That isn't, for the most part, how this industry functions.
Keeping them that way is a trap for customers oblivious to sales.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3_thechaosdwarfs_astragoth/

April 13

3! LLs out of the gate and some hobgob hobo as a legendary hero. (And this will be the model going forward)

Don't care for the mechsuit (but then, the FW remake was something that passed me by. I know the old stuff). Most of the old staples seem to be there. Characters seem to have Proper Hats, but not all the units do.


Looks like political infighting and slavery faction mechanics. Not a lot of real information.


Also, just for the hilarity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kFlQSvHz4Y
Loremaster of Sotek goes full fanboy (and also does a unit breakdown of what's in the trailer)

Also up for pre-order on Steam already.

For _$25_ (tho 10% preorder discount), which is pretty hefty jump in DLC pricing.
Champions of Chaos was 16, Ogres were 12 (if you didn't preorder the game).

Older race packs are showing up as $19 if you're buying them for TW3.

The art of those unit cards is an interesting choice. Most are fine, some are... really not. (The face on the basic axe and shield warrior just looks like some guy off the street)

At least it looks like a very complete roster out of the gate, even if there is a fair amount of redundancy. It might lack a bit of anti-large (though not AP), but with the guns and artillery I doubt that matters. By and large, the army has everything

I think I like the idea of a main stack followed by artillery train filled out with gobbos. Use them as the primary siege stack (gobbos split between bullet catchers for the big guns and first wave on the walls) while the reinforcing chaos dwarves arrive.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Ironically i am more hyped about the hobgoblins

Good thing. Watching the Ashtaroth video, chaos dwarf units have unit caps (like tomb kings), even on basic warriors, so there will be a fair few gobbos early on. On the upside, good stuff starts showing up early. Basic Taurus is tier 2, which is fantastic for a flying monster, as are 3 of the artillery units.

There are a lot of systems in play for the CD, including settlement types, labor and influence, but at least they keep the basics, like underway stance.
In keeping with the themes of TW3, the campaign goal is drilling into Hashut's realm and stealing his blood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mVXFQvUNE

Drazhoath the Ashen Gameplay Showcase

For a showcase, it doesn't tell us much about him. He's in the corner down near the blue roses, nurgle (though that start might have been moved, as its completely unmentioned) and Greasus.

But... the real tea is about the unit caps and unit upgrades. I was wrong, they don't use the TK system (ie, more buildings=more units), they use the Beastmen system, where you pay (in armaments, in this case) to raise unit caps and buy temporary upgrades (like frenzy).

The caps are on groups of units- all varieties of bull centaur and most of the artillery, as examples.

The chaos dwarves use half-a-dozen systems cobbled from other factions and reflavored (unit caps, influence, caravans, etc)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hobgoblin Khanate sound fun in theory, but how would it work in practice? Can you base an entire TWW faction on 6 units?

Now, now. You're not supposed to be realistic about why CA isn't doing a niche lore sub-faction they never said they would.

Another beast of a download & install. 13 GB. Download went pretty quick, updating is taking a dogs age (about an hour, all told, depending on how long the last 13% takes. Its hard to say because its still jumping between 15 minutes and 2 minutes on the time remaining.)

Full game now sits at 108 GB.


Also, if you want Ulrika for the Empire and Kislev, you need to go through the CA account rigmarole, but from inside the game, which is the opposite of the way they used to do it. And if you have an existing CA account you need to link it to the steam account and then you don't know if it worked, because she needs to be unlocked through an in-game quest, so... feth all that.

 Overread wrote:

Voss wrote:

Also, if you want Ulrika for the Empire and Kislev, you need to go through the CA account rigmarole, but from inside the game, which is the opposite of the way they used to do it. And if you have an existing CA account you need to link it to the steam account and then you don't know if it worked, because she needs to be unlocked through an in-game quest, so... feth all that.

It's really painless to do. Actually easier than ever before. If you've already done it for the other games you literally just have to sign in and click link account and you're done.

Its really not. I had to start and exit the game and convince the login page that I already had an existing account (and I could only find that out by trying to create a new account with the same email address, upon which it informed me that I could link accounts) and then I had to leave and then actually log in to the website with no confirmation that much of anything was happening and then start up the game for a fourth time to find out if she was actually in my game if I got around to unlocking her.

Under the old system, I logged into the CA account, hit download and then a DLC would appear on the game's page in my steam library. The only difficulty there was remembering what I bothered to put in as an email and password for a website I almost never visit.

Once enabled you can pick her in skirmish games as a normal hero for Kisleve. It's only in the campaign that you need to unlock her.

Right, so she needs to be unlocked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Going in blind with this DLC…

I really shouldn’t have, lol.

There is a lot to unpack with the Chaos Dwarves. I’m sure it’ll be second nature soon enough, but its somewhat overwhelming.

There's a lot of layers to it, and the beginning feels like you have to neglect certain things (I've burning workers on conclave influence a lot (and control, honestly. It helps the labor bleed), armaments have been low priority, and raw resources are a desperate need all the time). Once the tech tree starts to unfold, it gets pretty crazy. Between Zhatan's bonuses and the military research, I think new units are coming on at rank 4 or 5 now. I'm getting my first bull centaur unit next turn, and I've found that they have a tech buff that gives them perfect vigor at rank 7. That's kind of insane.

The hobgoblin hero feels like a crutch to make the faction work in the early game, because his buffs are outrageously strong.

Started with Zhatan, and Villitch feels like a dedicated spoiler- he hung out in my territory a while (rather than, you know, fighting Cathay), and once I started fighting Cathay, he turned on a dime and attacked me. Killed the dragon lady and then went back for him, and now it seems like I'm just going to steamroll through minor factions.

I'm actually surprised Grimgor has been quiet in my Zhatan campaign. I figured convoys and anti-player bias would shove him my way.

But he's been sitting on two settlements for a long time. I suspect he and Kholek have been army trading, because both (and Kholek's vassal) have been almost completely static all game. I'm starting to snowball so I may soon send some hobgobs and an laborer/artillery train that way to put an end to that.

I need to check the world situation when I get back to it this evening, but given the number of destroyed ogre factions, someone has consolidated in the Mountains of Mourn, but I'm not sure who. Hopefully they're at war with the other Cathayan dragon, as I really need strip mines (and labor) to raise towers higher and higher.

The main thing against Towers is the resource cost, each fully upgraded tower requires thousands of raw materials, and if you're going 1 to 1 on outposts and factories, you're going to be eating a lot of what you produce, slowing the rate of improving all those towers.

The perfect balance is hard to say. Factories do have a building that buff raw resource production for the whole province, so that's a consideration.

On the other hand, factories don't have labor/workload costs, while outposts do, so that's another issue to consider. 3 or 4 outposts are going to have an absurd labor demand, and the sheer numbers are going to die real fast with no real benefit. (Large labor numbers decrease control, and the lower the control, a larger percentage dies off. Better to spread them out and sacrifice your surplus population for gold or influence)

I did turn Vilitch's homestead into tower/factory (its a two settlement province) and don't need to bother with labor there at all, but its still useful to have some for the sacrifice buttons. I suspect I might have been better off with two factories there, because that's an utterly pointless corner of the map.

One other thing to consider with CD is that the tech tree has buffs for recruitment costs, global recruitment and global recruitment time reduction. And lots of ways to get gold You don't necessarily need towers for unit production all over the place, and the Temples of Hashut at tier 5 are a ridiculous investment. They're real good, but impractical in the early-game and probably mid-game

That said, my early economy got rather wrecked by Vilitch, and I got a lot further in research and province expansion than I did in vertical buildings and unit unlocks and caps, and its probably warping my perspective a bit.

I care a lot more about raw resources and labor than I do about gold, and armaments have been relatively low priority. Gold is easy. Just fight a battle, get gold, then sacrifice labor for more gold when needed.

One thing I would suggest never, ever doing is spending conclave influence to increase the starting level of a tower. That should be reserved for seats or some of the really tasty research. The benefits of the seats are simply too high to waste influence this way. (Well, once you've unlocked everything, then you can spend your pointless excess on towers)

The convoy system needs some work. Its most obvious as Zhatan, as it comes up early, but when you're sending convoys to yourself, spending gold and guns you don't get back for raw materials or slaves you don't have, it feels a little weird.

Same with buying materials or 'labor' from King Louen after he takes Grung Zhint, or potentially sending caravans to people you're at war with (not 100% sure on that one, but I can check now that I'm at war with Ghorst- turns out, yes, you can ).

It also just doesn't have much variety. Gold or guns for labor or materials (or guns for gold). And early game, trading away guns is... bad (had a fun 10 turns when only one destination was taking gold).

----
Well, the great war for Cathay has begun. Not against the Cathayans, who've been dead a while, but the Blessed Dread, because they decided to move against Greasus in the mountains (and we recently allied). I cut Clan Eshin loose from treaties for later (they've got a toehold on a region they won't trade away and may just drag me into another bad war), and they immediately declared war. Which is unfortunate for them, as I have an army moving east to clear out their three cities, and their armies are way out of position.

Next turn I get to use my army with three dreadquakes and two magma cannons, and confederate with, well, whomever I want. Probably the Legion of Azgorh, as they're in too many wars and have the fewest cities.


Weirdest thing so far: Wood Elf forests can be level 5 towers, with a full span of buildings. Unfortunately, most settlements don't get a Chaos Dwarf treatment when they're taken over. Sadly including Dwarf holds, which is disappointing.

Puzzled by the roster (and lord) complaints, as its a lot better than several factions (especially Cathay, Kislev and Ogres, including some older ones like Norsca).

Ally ogres to dip into their roster is easy, O&G takes a bit more work (but honestly, doesn't offer much, and is more than a bit anti-fluff).

trexmeyer wrote:
I picked up the Short Victory with Chaos Dwarfs, but honestly, I don't love the faction.
They're certainly more complex than most other races due to using multiple resources, but I don't know if complex is good or even desirable.

Its very gameable. Working with multiple resources takes some getting used to, but once you hit the tipping point, the faction goes insane and you can have level 5 buildings and units in a single turn

I do think that they're not as strong as many people claim..

They've got some quirks. Monstrous infantry and cav tend to be a problem, as there is a lack of anti-large and a lot of the artillery just... doesn't do much against large creatures, even though it should (I watched crypt horrors just stand still and ignore my magma cannons for five minutes, which made no sense to me. They do so much damage, I figured a model per shot, but no). The main answer to flyers is blunderbusses, which shouldn't even work, but whatever. A cloud of short ranged missiles just shreds things, I guess.

On the other hand, massed infantry just die, and a mixed army will get dribs and drabs of cav to your lines, but won't last long. The blunderbusses and fire pikes also shred characters, so that isn't much of a problem. The magic is largely nasty, and the tech and conclave upgrades are flatly insane.

Of course, some of what works against the AI just won't work against a human player, but that's a different issue.

----
I have discovered I hate the late game crisis. It's just tedious, rather than fun, especially if you're a long way away from where they spawn. I let my game go ( I had already gotten the short and long victory) rather than keep slogging through the Empire (and then Bretonnia) to wrap up the vampires. Ghorst's re-infestation I handled with a single army in 3 turns (lightning strike helped). And it only took that long because they respawned after I wiped out the first wave. I had also taken his magic forest, turned it into a level 5 tower and rush built the dreadquake bombard building. And had 4 dreadquakes in the army. \shrug.

That became the standard, by the by. Take the province capital, reorder the labor to rush build the dreadquake building and walls and keep pressing the attack.
It got a bit dull. But the crisis mode definitely doesn't add fun. Just chasing more stacks around.

Unexpected roadmap (and a small patch)

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1142710/view/3127191325136532108

3.1 soonish.
some random Regiment of Renown units
another legendary hero
chaos dwarfs as an end game scenario
assorted fixes

4.0 late summer- DLC- tzeentch, cathay, kislev, 3 LLs 1 LH (tzeentch for the hero), achievements for IE, another swing at settlement battles

5.0 end of the year. DLC- Nurgle, Empire, Dwarfs. another LH (supposedly hinted at already), a legendary artifact like the sword of Khaine- the Nemesis Crown (my memories of that summer campaign are so deeply engrained and valued: it definitely happened. The end).

6.0 next spring (2024) another 3-fer DLC, with another Legendary hero. No factions named, probably slaanesh or khorne (because there is an obvious trend), hopefully fething Ogres. And Norsca, because, well... two LLs.

4.0 and 5.0 are a little boggling, because they're soliciting suggestions and complaints. Especially for 4.0, the DLC should already be completely mapped out.