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The mere mention of the name of this Chaos Lord often will send shivers down the spine of even the Corpse Emperor's most hardened troops.

The Tyrant, as he is merely called, is infamous for taking control of the entire Asharzunipal system in a lightning attack that caught the entire system's defence forces off-guard. It is rumored that entire planets have been razed to the ground, and then built up again with huge obsidian shrines and temples for Khorne.

He sits on an obsidian throne of the blackest black, carried by mutants and slaves. His bronze mask, thought to be merely ornamental, protects him from psychic powers of cowards and also inspires fear.

Vladis-Sargonier- 225 points http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/theGrandAdmiralThrawn/Vladis-Sargonier.jpg

WS:6 BS:6 S:4(5) T:4(5) W:4 I:2 A:4(+1+d3) LD:10 SV:2+/5++

Weapons: Cursed Blade of N'ch'th'sy'kx, Power Fist

Wargear: Daemon Helm of Khorne, Mark of Khorne, Daemon Forged Armor

Special Rules:
Fearless, Slow and Purposeful

As Vladis-Sargonier is too proud to leave his throne, he is slow and purposeful. In addition, he may never run.

Cursed Blade of N'ch'th'sy'kx-
This weapon contains a powerful daemon, but it has since realized that Vladis-Sargonier will be its one and only true master. It cuts through even the most powerful armor like a knife through hot butter. None who stand before Vladis-Sargonier and his Cursed Blade have ever lived to tell the tale, not even the Inquisitor Invictus IV and his entourage of daemonhunters.

Grants 1+d3 attacks, a power weapon, +1 S. These bonuses are included already in the above profile. Gives +1 Combat Resolution. In addition, rolls of 6 to hit grant extra attacks.

Daemon Helm of Khorne-
This mask covers the entire head of Vladis-Sargonier. It also bears the Mark of Khorne, sculpted in brass from a daemon world. To peer into the black, soulless eyes of this helm is to forfeit one's soul. And as an instrument of Khorne, it also protects Vladis-Sargonier from weaklings who would soil their martial pride.

Grants a Psychic Hood, a 5+ invulnerable save, and enemies attacking Vladis-Sargonier suffer a -1 I.

Mark of Khorne- Grants +1 A


He seems okay. No crazy stuff I think, he's a beast in close combat but then again that's what Khorne is known for. He's really slow. Really slow. No eternal warrior either, so he can still be instant killed.

Seem balanced? Or over the top?
Perhaps even overpriced?

Please let me know!

I like him. He has clear drawbacks, not too many special things. I would drop the Powerfist, I think it detracts from the special daemon weapon. I'd drop Artificer Armor, no other Chaos unit gets it. I'd rate this guy at closer to 200 points.

I agree with RustyKnight both on the armor and the points. You probably could give him a another wound due to being on a throne.

Why did you give him a BS of 6? He doesn't even have a gun.

If you ever make the model post some pictures he sounds interesting.

I agree with the above, except on the fist. Make the Daemon weapon an axe, or a gigantic hammer, and make it count as a power fist instead of giving +1S.

Way, way, WAY over the top. You realize he has a potential 25 S6 attacks and 26 possible combat resolution? At Ws6 he will hit just about everyone on 2s, so 22 hits, at S6 he will wound just about everyone on 2s, so 19-20 wounds, power weapon so no saves. If he wants to use his Power Fist he is S10 and will instant kill everyone?

Hitting on two's? Standard "To Hit" chart goes to three's. The extra dice on a roll of six might get out of hand, but just limit it to only the initial attacks. Where did you get 25 attacks? A strength ten powerfist adds warbosses and Typhus to its Instand Death list, but really isn't that much better than a strength eight PF.

5+D3 base 1+D3 for his sword +1 for the mark of Khorne. That is 9 right off the bat, possible 4 more attacks, that is 13. Multiply by two for the roll of a 6 to hit, that is 26. I am sorry, I must have added the Khorne mark afterwards. Possible 26 attacks, +1 for combat resolution, that means 27 combat resolution. Is it unlikely? Yes, is it possible? Quite. And you are right, he can only hit on a 3+ (dang my post edition memories). And don't forget, S10 is +2 over S8 against vehicles. And don't forget Ogryns, Necron Lords, Beast of Nurgle, Blood Crusher, Nurgle Herald, Brood Lord, Chaos Spawn, and Demon Prince. My, that is a mighty long list there.... Not to mention all the vehicles in the game at extra risk from him. I'm not saying "Crap Character!" but, it looks like he is way over the top.

Skinnattittar wrote:5+D3 base 1+D3 for his sword +1 for the mark of Khorne. That is 9 right off the bat, possible 4 more attacks, that is 13. Multiply by two for the roll of a 6 to hit, that is 26. I am sorry, I must have added the Khorne mark afterwards. Possible 26 attacks, +1 for combat resolution, that means 27 combat resolution. Is it unlikely? Yes, is it possible? Quite.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, Skin and suggest the following idea: A chaos lord has Base 3 attacks. MoK gives 1, the daemon weapon gives +1+d3. THose numbers add up to...5+d3. If this is how it's supposed to be interpreted, then it should technically read 3(4) and the daemon weapon should mention it's bonus is not included, or it should read 3(5+d3) and the daemon blade should say "bonus included in profile". (I suspect the 5+d3, as the +1 strength is already included in the profile.EDIT: Maybe. I thought it was the strength that had the 4(5), not Toughness. Now I'm slightly less confident.)

I'm also assuming that the rolls of 6 work like the old Axe of Khorne rules. In which case, you know, this character could have 60 or 300 attacks, assuming he rolled that many sixes. The odds, out of 13 attacks, all of them being a 6 are 1.2%(EDIT: My genetics-major roommate informs me my math was incorrect here, and the actual odds of this events are 1/(6^13) or 1/13,060,694,016. SO, not "quite" possible.) The law of averages, on the other hand, suggests this character will get roughly 15 attacks assuming you're right, and between 7 and 9 if I am.

I've got to say, I like it. Very balanced for what I assume is a WIP (no testing). For the attacks they are alright, however if memory serves me correctly a daemon weapon
with the Mark Of Khorne should get +2D6 attacks, So what you've got is very good. His statline is inline with any marine special character which is good along with no eternal warrior.
All in all I give it a 4/5, balanced stats, drawbacks probably out weigh the positives (He would be lucky to survive against striking scorpions for example, or other dedicated close combat troops). Also maybe a bit cheaper 200 would be a minimum.

O.K one last thing, His Daemon weapon sounds like something the Tau would come up with.

Skinnattittar wrote:5+D3 base 1+D3 for his sword +1 for the mark of Khorne.

I'm assuming the 1+d3 is included, otherwise he's getting extra attacks with no explanation.

Skinnattittar wrote:And don't forget, S10 is +2 over S8 against vehicles.

That makes him able to go after Land Raiders in CC, other than that, a standard PF would have had a very, very good chance of disabling a tank.

Skinnattittar wrote:And don't forget Ogryns, Necron Lords, Beast of Nurgle, Blood Crusher, Nurgle Herald, Brood Lord, Chaos Spawn, and Demon Prince. My, that is a mighty long list there.... Not to mention all the vehicles in the game at extra risk from him.

Bloodcrusher, Brood Lord, and Daemon Prince are Immune to ID...all the time. A Necron Lord would probably fall to the Daemon Weapon (can't remember if they have 3 or four wounds). The Nurgle dudes just lose FnP, which they would lose to a normal PF (or the Daemon Weapon). And that leaves the Ogryn...who most seem to think suck. Your mighty big list proves that this guy is OP...compared to Ogryn.

@ FallToMe: If this is written how it should be (like they are in codices) then you do NOT include bonus attacks in the profile. I was assuming that those bonus attacks on 6s do not allow those bonus hits to get bonuses, and those bonuses to get bonuses, and those.... etc... Even still 26 S6 attacks is devastating! I really don't know how people can think this is balanced, the only negative is no run and Slow and Purposeful, which aren't much of a disadvantage with Rhinos and Land Raiders.

Skinnattittar wrote:@ FallToMe: If this is written how it should be (like they are in codices) then you do NOT include bonus attacks in the profile. I was assuming that those bonus attacks on 6s do not allow those bonus hits to get bonuses, and those bonuses to get bonuses, and those.... etc... Even still 26 S6 attacks is devastating! I really don't know how people can think this is balanced, the only negative is no run and Slow and Purposeful, which aren't much of a disadvantage with Rhinos and Land Raiders.

As I said above, his attacks are balanced, He is S5 with a daemon weapon (which should give 2D6 attacks not D3 with the 6's rule), not that nasty considering some of the other options available to chaos. And with such a low initiative he'll get swamped by assault units.

I'm sorry, but if you go through his description is shows he has nine (9) minimum attacks, up to thirteen (13) with good D3 rolls and extras on 6s. His weapon gives him S6, not S5, and an effective I of 4 (-1 to your opponent's leadership is essentially the same as +1 to yourself). So his I isn't that bad, actually, he has an excellent number of attacks with a good likely hood of hitting, and at S5(6) and an optional Powerfist, all attacks ignoring Armor saves, I'm not quite sure where the detractors are, except for being slow and purposeful and unable to run. Is he not awesome enough?

Alright I am confused is this guy hitting at strength 5 or 6? With slow and purposeful I don't see this guy getting into hand to hand anytime soon.

His weapon gives him +1S on top of his S5 statline. Slow and Purposeful would hinder him, but roll him up with a fast moving squad out of a Rhino or Land Raider, tie up the unit with the faster one, if he can't get to them in the first turn, he will in the second. Not perfect but still great.

Right, i've been going by the assumption that he has 5+1D3 which includes the daemon weapon and MOK, because frankly having something with +2D3 attacks is stupid.
I stand by my point that he isnt over powered, the 6's rule needs looking at, perhaps make it allow you to reroll one dice that failed for each 6. However when you compare his stats to a Eldar Phoenix Lord that balance out well:
PL: BS WS S T W I A Ld Sv
7 7 4 4 3 7 4 10 2+

For example the Striking scorpion PL clocks in at 15 points less, has better WS BS I, gets 7 attacks when not on the charge, at S5 I7 or S10 I1 Albeit not power weapon unless using the claw. He would put the smack down in most cases on the Tyrant. *once again going by my assumption that he doesnt have +2D3 attacks)


one last note, he could do with loosing the power weapon and being pushed down to 200 pts, also a drop in initiative for fluff purposes, if he cant be bothered getting off of his throne to move why would he attack with such speed I3 would be better.

*EDIT* also Him+LR is 500pts (roughly) a huge amount for just 1 guy that doesnt help other squads, a rhino isnt much better with its low armor, just something to think about.

You can put him and his buddies in that Land Raider, which also has multiple Twin Linked weapons, is AV14 all around, etc... Rhino isn't that bad when used properly.

You are still making an assumption, but I would say he is balanced at A5, maybe even so with +D3, which doesn't sound so bad. You are forgetting, however, that the Pheonix Lord is only S4, T4, a worse save (no invulnerable), and at WS7 and I7, the only things those are securing is first strike and hitting on 3+, it isn't like they are granting him anything more than what a Space Marine gets over a Guardsmen.

This character, however, has 9 base attacks, 10 on the charge, 13/14 when lucky on his D3s, and 26 or infinite possible attacks! (improbable, but possible). All at S6 or S10, and is T4(5). So he is harder to wound, will hit on a 3+, wound on 2+ with no saves, against the vast majority of opponents. Still better than a Pheonix Lord.

No doubt when Vlad comes back, we'll have an explanation of what he intended.

Personally, from his description, I don't see this guy being able to use a vehicle. A great obsidian throne being carried by slaves doesn't sound like it fits well in a rhino.

Alright, everyone calm down please! I didn't intend for this to be so controversial!

Skinnattittar,

I see why you are think that he's overpowered.

I made a mistake. The Daemon Weapon should have said, ( statistics already included in profile). I will add that now. This is purely my fault.

Allwillfall2me is correct.
Since he's on a throne, he won't be able to take a transport. I didn't even think of that for some reason.

I further reduced his I by 1, but gave him an extra wound. Or do you guys like it more as it is?

I doubt he'll ever see combat. Slow and Purposeful, no run, and no transport? Anyone with half a brain will just avoid him. Maybe just drop the extra attacks on sixs and allow him to ride Land Raiders (as Palanquin of Nurgle).

RustyKnight wrote:I doubt he'll ever see combat. Slow and Purposeful, no run, and no transport? Anyone with half a brain will just avoid him. Maybe just drop the extra attacks on sixs and allow him to ride Land Raiders (as Palanquin of Nurgle).

This is very true.

Should he give some other bonuses as he'll just be sitting the entire time?

I was thinking of changing some stuff so that he could leave his throne as movement and then move 3"

I am also of thinking of giving him some sort of Str 4 Ap 4 R18" Assault 2 weapon.

What do you think?

I picture him as a sort of Xerxes-ish character. I got the inspiration for this character from some Reaper Miniatures thing, I think, which has a guy sitting on a throne. Very cool.

And very different.

Or perhaps he takes up 10 spaces in a Land Raider? And he can only go in a Land Raider?

If that is the case, then he seems pretty evenly priced, but I don't think he will be anything other than an objective Guardian, which might fit him rather well! Making him the sole occupant of a Land Raider also seems interesting, as you could model the Land Raider to be a carrier for him and his throne, very humorous. As for leaving his throne to gain distance? If he leaves his throne he will act as normal infantry, but must lose something. How about some of his immense strength, toughness, and invulnerable save? Like a Curse, he is only "invulnerable" while on his throne! Still seems fairly priced.

Skinnattittar wrote:If that is the case, then he seems pretty evenly priced, but I don't think he will be anything other than an objective Guardian, which might fit him rather well! Making him the sole occupant of a Land Raider also seems interesting, as you could model the Land Raider to be a carrier for him and his throne, very humorous.

I was thinking about that, heh.

As for leaving his throne to gain distance? If he leaves his throne he will act as normal infantry, but must lose something. How about some of his immense strength, toughness, and invulnerable save? Like a Curse, he is only "invulnerable" while on his throne! Still seems fairly priced.

Yes he will lose some. He will lose the +1T, and 1 W. However, he will gain +2 I as he's not on his throne anymore. And as he doesn't have Eternal Warrior, it becomes very easy to kill him.

I originally toyed with the Throne giving him +1 to his Inv save giving him a 4+ inv, but if he left he reverted to a 5+.

Here's a picture of him for reference: