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I just started playing warmachine, like 2 months ago. So far I have lots of experience playing Cryx, however khador and warjack-warcaster always make drool... So here goes the list, and tell me what you think.

Karchev
Wardog
2 Berserkers
2 Kodiaks
Manhunter
Eiryss
Battle Meck +2
2 Mortar Crew

Another thing that I feel that I need to ask, how's Mortenebra's performance and how does the synergy(s) go with her and the jacks? Anyone with experience facing Mortenebra would be helpful. I'd like to make one too with her.

Karchev's Tow ability can only tow 3 jacks, thus having 4 heavies is somewhat of a waste.

Repair crews force you to sacrifice the jack's action and the crew's action in MK1.

Probably the most effective strat with Karchev is whiplash, where you upkeep tow, and run karchev at your enemy as fast as you can while towing three extremely expensive hard hitting heavies with him. I have used the whiplash strat several times and it works really well, and even better in MKII. If you dont want to use that strategy, I would take out the repair crew and try to squeeze in a Kovnik to marshal one of the berserkers. Kovniks are really nice for marshaling because they are tough as nails, and they can boost the berserker a little bit without focus. You could also move points around ans try to fit in a squad of man o wars.

The main thing I would change is having 4 jacks under karchev. He cant tow all of them and he doesnt have nearly enough focus to make them combat effective.

Being repaired doesn't require the jack to sacrifice anything in MkI Prime:Remix.

I cannot sing the praises of Beast-09 enough in a Karchev list. Beast will demolish any warcaster in the game period under the effects of Unearthly rage & imprint murderous. 2" reach + thresher + all of beasts other goodies make him a must take in my opinion.

I'd shy away from the mortars just because Karchev's list is so fast and aggressive that you're rarely going to be in a good spot to fire with them. Dropping both you could upgrade a kodiak to a Behemoth almost, which would do the AOE dropping job just fine from the frontline.

The problem with karchev in my opinion is that very popular choices are extremely effective at countering him outright: mianly Eiryss, Kreoss, Deneghra, eVlad, Sorscha. Now, everyone has trouble with those casters & eiryss, but other casters can afford to hang back and let their army do the work. A karchev list without karchev actively towing models to the front-line is just a bunch of slow Khador heavy jacks with only 5 focus to split between them all. Not very inspiring, and certainly not flexible.

So, I assume, that karchev army is pretty much a one trick pony army? If he got disabled or slowed down or anything, the whole army would crumble. Is there anything that would help prevent that? Firpower? I just fall in love with the image of swarms of heavyjacks... or if there's any other warjack-casters, what would be the better one to use other than karchev? How about mortenebra in comparison to karchev? She seems to have more tricks up her sleeve than karchev... Anyone can help me with this?

Karchev can get around that to a limited extent by taking models that are exceptional counters to his own counters. So, your own eEiryss (remove upkeeps from your own models), couple of manhunters, widowmakers, behemoth bombards - will keep most of the easy answers in check. The problem there is that the more you make the army flexible enough to handle all comers - the more it tends to look like the standard Khador all-star solo army, and then you're better off with a caster who supports that playstyle.

I would say that Mortenebra does have it easier, as she isn't required to be so close to the counter-pieces in order to drive her battlegroup. Additionally, Cryx jacks have an easier time performing without any attention to begin-with - like the deathjack needs any help.

Morte is a pretty fun caster to play but she plays differnt form most cryx casters.

At 750 I've run

Morte

DJ
Seether
Harrower
Couple of arc nodes

WSC
Biles
McThralls
Necro tech

I've done very well with it even though it isn't optimized.

Now that nightmare is out, its a player as is the cankerworm. And never under estimate the threat range of a helljack caster kill with her.

My prime book says:

"The warjack being repaired must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells on the turn repairs are made."

I dont have the remix book however, so they must have changed it.

In an army that large you would probably have enough jacks to block LOS to Karchev, which would prevent alot of people from shooting at him. I developed a strategy with him using a combo of his tow and a behemoth to simply bomb the enemy to death. You could also run with Gorman to drop smoke screens to give them a little extra DEF. Using Karchev to tow jacks around becomes less and less effective as you play with more points, as it becomes easier to dish out enough damage to disable a jack in one round of combat. I would just go with a more standardized caster at those point levels.

Cool list! It's so cool to see that many Jacks running down the field next to a Jack warcaster! But I don't think some of this is practical.... ( in my opinion of course)

This list could work because all the Jacks could get down the field at the same rate. The Kodiak run for free so your whole army could be moving like 8" a turn.
But, some things you may run into that could be a pain are multitudes of small based models, solos, and foc allocation.

Personally, I think you need some infantry killers....Karchev can do that Sunder attack to kill a few, but prob not enough (the other Jacks can only kill like 2 a piece). Iron Curtain could help, but with just a few models (jacks) in a small circle, it would be hard to manuver around enemy units. I would suggest taking other Jacks besides the Berzerkers like Beast 09 (spec attacks is infantry killer) or Behemoth that has ranged and melee.
Ranged helps alot since Karchev is famous for moving 6inch, turning around, putting 3 Jacks in his back arc and then letting them move and fire (like the Destroyer)

Oh, plus, with Karchev's feat, the Kodiaks already have all terrain, and the Berzerkers can already charge for free so it is like you are wasting half of his feat.

Oh, I don't think the Mecks will help much because by the time one of your Jacks takes damage and needs healing, the enemy will have devised a plan to kill them and won't have much trouble. Now if you had a ranged Jack and the Mecks...diff story I think

Oh, one more thing, I think the Berzerkers are bad Jacks for him because his Martial Instinct makes up for thier terrible MAT, when it could be making another Jack awesome. Sidearmes would do the same thing for this Jack. It could be giving another model a slightly difficult DEF to hit.

I would suggest (if taking Karchev), take other jacks....sorry to shoot your idea down but that's just what I think. Beast 09, Spriggan, Behemoth, Destroyer, Drago....

One more thing, if you like running alot of Jacks I think Kommander Orsus Zoktavir could run four, if used correctly. And he is still a powerhouse! Plus, his feat works amazingly with the Berzerkers. He has many tricks up his sleeve Check it out.
Ok, goodluck in your choice!
SORRY FOR THE FREAKISHLY LONG MESSAGE LOL

I've had a fair amount of success running Karchev with two Kodiacks and a Spriggin supported by MOWs STs, Drakun, Yuri, MHs and WidowMakers. It really depends on how hardcore the opposition is. The Kodiak is an awesome Jack and with spine crusher and the chain attack can be very effective under Karchev's unearthly rage. Unearthly Rage, IMHO, is the key to picking jacks for Karchev's battlegroup. The more melee attacks the better because everything gets boosted... Jacks with only one melee attack will not benefit as much as those with two melee attacks. The behemoth and destroyer are best left to Sorcha who's feat can make the bombards hit. Berzerkers are always fun but the Kodi is more reliable, a harder target and will generate more attacks. If you want to run Berzerkers you want Vlad.

Beast09 and Drago are never a bad choice as they are simply amazing. Most of my friends cringe when I even suggest fielding them...

The bottom line is that Karchev is a Jack caster that favors melee. Go figga... Khador? Melee?

Governator Council, do you have any Khador yet? Or are you just trying to make an awesome list with Karchev?
I'm also wondering, do you want to use Karchev specifically or just to run alot of Jacks?
Oh, and like Beefheart said, I think Drago and Beast 09 would be the best choices for your list....or the Behemoth (of course, he works well in any list).

BTW, you know your list comes to 644? You still have 106 pts left. What you ganna do with it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh yeah, for some reason, I have never thought of taking the Dog with Karchev, but damn that makes him amazing!!!!! He screens the dog while it boosts his DEF to a barely below average for warcasters that will force some models to boost just to hit him!!!! cooool combo!!

At the moment, I don't have any khador stuffs. I only have cryx stuffs and I'm just drooling the image of filling a full table of heavy jacks...

My plan is to make a 1k list for karchev, but the 750 has to do first, coz I need to learn to use him on the table.

Dog is awesome just for that reason, not to mention it can charge whatever in its LoS and 6" range.

One of the reason that I use more berserkers instead of the others are the fact that the more attacks you could do with a Jack, the more effective it is. Martial instict gives the whole battlegroup a buff, which for each warjack the more attack it has, the more effective it is. With that in mind, I chose berserkers as my main jacks. Drago falls into berserker group (cmon... It's very obvious, lol) due to the same reason.

Another supporting combo that would make you drool over the berserkers or jacks with 2 starting attacks etc... This is a very common trick for most people aka "Crack the Whip!!", where you upkeep tow, activate feat, cast Unearthly Rage, Tow berserkerx2 + drago, Run, turn around, and 3 warjacks charge separate directions... for free, ignoring rough terrain and all other stuffs. All melee attacks at 3d6+1+mat to hit and 3d6+P+S.... Not to mention berserk frenzy that means then 2nd and the bonus chain attacks also get buffed even more with the successive attacks.
Did I mention that unearthly rage can dmg "only affected by magic" models?

For that whole big setup combo... I'd bring berserkers and friends... not saying that you're input are denied, but that's my reason of berserkers.

The thing about beast 09, drago and behemoth is that none of those are nice, points wise. The furthest I'd go with named jacks, is Drago and Behemoth. I like Beast's tresher * attack, but it plus behemoth is like 298...... eeewww.... Berserkers in the other hand are dirt cheap, 84 points... Ignore the unstable, problem already solved with martial instinct. Kodiak, this is a jack full of utility. I love it just for the reason that he doesn't need to be towed around like a doll to be fast. It has chain attacks... and the steam vent.... turns it into a nightmare for infantry and jacks... Too bad that it still has all the faulties of heavy jacks...

after recalculating, yes, my list came out short... I'd redo the list after recalculate and redo the list. The way I'd go for this time probably will be around kodiaks and beast. Unstable makes me worried when I want to run my berserker/drago.... I'd like a decent playable, challenging army to use... Faulty is too much for me, lol... We'll see

Karchev does not have the spell list or the focus to run a Behemoth very effectively. It's a jack that I find works best with Sorsha.

2 kodis + Beast should work fine for you... Now the question is what will you back it up with?

I've been playing Butcher more lately but last year I won my club's WM league with the following Karchev list. Out of ten games I think I lost twice. Once to a 7 Arc-Node Denegra list and once to a POM Sevi list. I should have beaten the POM list but I was feeling unbeatable after 5 straight wins and played stupid, the Cryx list was basically a tourney list and Karchev is a big friggin target...

Faction: Khador
Points: 499
Model Count: 9
Victory Points: 19

Karchev the Terrible
> Kodiak
> Kodiak
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Man-O-War Drakhun
> Man-O-War Drakhun (Dismounted)
Man-O-War Shocktroopers

Not really a "Hard" Khador list but there are not that many Harcore players at the club. It was a tone of fun to play...

Karchev does plenty fine with the Behemoth - as the behemoth is usually being towed and getting an aim bonus or shooting at models that have been knocked down by Iron Curtain / Sunder. Additionally, a Behemoth with unearthly rage on it is a beautiful thing in close-combat with beasts & jacks.

I didn't buy it on paper, but once I started using it with Karchev I came to love the behemoth. I got a lot of caster kills just by upkeepking iron curtain & tow (2), arcanatrik turbine (1), then dropping 2 focus on the behemoth. Run the iron curtain past their caster, and unloading 2 boosted cannons into the prone caster. Ta-dah.

Course it doesn't work in MkII because Karchev was made 'More killy' which means losing Iron curtain and gaining... uh... well, Jack's got better.

Seems like a lot of work when Sorsha can just Windrush in, pop her feat, boost the bombards damage then Windrush out with focus to spare. It's a bit harder than it used to be but still very viable in MK1... MK2 it's still possible but no windrush out... So you better make it count.

Thought they hotfixed sorscha's windrush in the prime book. If you look in the back it states that you can only cast it once. What makes it hard to do is that casters and jacks can spend focus to unfreeze in mk2.

Karchev got big boosts in mk2. Turbine now grants +2 SPD instead of +2 inches of movement, allowing it to double when he runs. YOu also dont spend focus on it to get the buff, but you can INSTEAD gain a focus. He also gained a new awesome melee AOE spell.

I never used Karchev's iron curtain spell in mk1 until long after I had gotten my jacks into melee with the enemy's forces. It is really just a waste of focus until you get up and in the thick of melee combat. You can tangle up all the enemy jacks and infantry and then pop iron curtain and tow the jacks out of melee and smack all the guys with it. Beast is a must for whiplash karchev. In MK1 it's stats are soo much better than every other jack in the game and it can kill anything. Literally anything it gets into melee with (which is anything you want with karchev towing) will die almost instantly. I once dropped a lancer charger and defender all in one round of combat with beast. What makes him really awesome is that he has reach plus thresher, plus in mk1 he makes multiple attacks. That thresher ability really makes him stand above everything, as it allows him to slaughter jacks and infantry swarms alike, which is the big weakness with alot of other jacks.

MK2 Sorsha can only cast windrush once... Her MK1 nerf was that her feat requires LOS... Still, both are workable...

The problem with Karchev is that there is no way to hide him... Anything with a CRA is going to chew him to bits...

Yes but if you check the back of the prime book it says that she can only cast the spell once per activation.

Also true that Karchev is impossible to hide, however his ability to deliver jacks is such that, even against cygnar, they would be hard pressed to shoot him down in one activation. Running 12in plus 7in charge from his jacks outranges just about anything. He will undoubtedly take damage running into position, but dropping a juggarnaught in one round from shooting infantry is a semi difficult task. OFC, as the points of battles increases, say 500+, it becomes easier and easier to one shot him, which is why I feel that karchev becomes much less effective at higher point levels.

Also, why the heck isnt my avatar image showing up?

KingKodo wrote:Yes but if you check the back of the prime book it says that she can only cast the spell once per activation.

All I can say is that my friend D-Rok Cheats!!!!

How did you now question the ability to wind rush twice? It seems so obvious......

So I should change some things from my original message....I still think the Behemoth would be a good jack because of what Moz said (thank you) except that he costs alot, but I think the combo he gets with Karchev: running with iron curtain, knocking down models, then STILL being able to shoot (the knocked down models) is cool.

If you are going 750, I would personally say that Karchev needs as much protection as he can get from enemies trying to one-shot him (or 2 or 3 etc..) while his army is running down the field which is why I think having a large base in front of him with 21 ARM helps alot....Behemoth or even the Spriggan.
Also, before, when I thought the mecks were a bad idea, I didn't realize you could use them on Karchev!! They are almost a must take then...

Oh, also yeah the Berzerker isn't a bad jack to take...for his points....for Khador....I mean fielding 3 Berzerkers can be chosen instead of just 2 other jacks. I just hate reg Berz's because I have Drago now. I.Love.Him.

I just read my previous message adn I don't know what I was thinking lol Just because Karchev's feat overlaps a model's (the Berzerker's) ability (charge w/o spend foc) that is no reason to rule out the model for the list....geezzzz sometimes it's like I am a whole 'nother person talking...I think I need counseling....

Yup, I was playing my Menoth buddy and left my mortars wide open on a flank. He started rushing at them with a light jack so I sprinted sorscha across the field with three windrushes and managed to cleave off his missle launcher and disable his movement, leaving him with his mace only. The next turn I sprinted back into his warcaster and popped feat for the kill. He promptly checked the books extremely carefully, front to back regarding the ability.

I've given Beast 09 a lot of thought....... OMG, he's AWESOME!!! I really think he's the Deathjack of Khador.

So, as far as we already concluded that meck can repair without costing the jack it's activation, I have the following lists that supposed to be better and more point accurate than the first one.

List 1:
Karchev
Wardog
Behemoth
Berserker
Beast-09
Eiryss, Mage Hunter
MoW Drakhun + Dismounted
2 Manhunters
Yuri
Mechaniks +1
Widowmaker
748/750
29 VP

List2:
Karchev
Wardog
Beast 09
Berserker
Drago
Eiryss
Gorman
MoW Drakhun +Dismount
2 Manhunters
Yuri
Mechaniks
Mechaniks
Widowmaker
Mortar
748/750
32 VP

This is just my thoughts..... Maybe some input? I kinda feel that the army lists this time start to sway away from the original theme of warjack army... CnC anyone?

I like list 1 a lot, and I share your concerns that building any khador list tends to stray from the warjack theme. 3 Heavies is still a lot (and it feels like 4 with karchev).