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Hey guys i was wondering if Deff Koptas with the Buzz Saws are worth it? Considering their essentially PKs, i thought they might be a nice and easy way to take down armor thats sitting in the back dropping pie plates on my 180+ Boyz.

I was also wondering if the Zzap Guns are worth it. I need something that is going to be effective at taking out armor.

Thanks guys =)

Deffkoptas are only S7 on the charge, and IMO are not worth it.

As for anti armour, the best unit for that are nob bikers

I've only had good luck with buzz saws on defkoptas. rokkits are S8 and you get a twin linked shot then you get 3 S7 attacks on rear armor (usually A10) its a way to stretch a suicide squad into better odds of taking out a vehicle.

Yes, the Deffcoptas CC Charge are wasted points. I've used the Deffcoptas minus Buzzsaw to decent effect with other things, however (i.e. Rokkits).

The Zzap gun admittedly I haven't tried as the effects seem too random. Maybe a couple batteries might do the trick?

You're playing Orks, face it, you gotta get some of the boyz back there with PowerKlaws and krump stuff good.

Not to mention, Point for point Battlewagons are far more effective than Zzap Batteries will ever be

Yeah i have a group of mega armored nobs with Ghaz leading them in a truck but once i get stuck in it seems im still being shot up from accross the board. I need something fast that can get accross the board quicker without getting shot down on turn 2...the trukks are a waste after turn 1 considering the 10arm. The 7STR PK attack doesnt seem to horrible considering your getting 3 on the charge.

Personally, Mega armored nobz just arnt worth it. Sure they have a 2+ save, but in all honesty its way to easy for other armies to get around that save. I have great luck with ghaz(or counts as in my case) with nobz or even Ard boyz. Also you shouldnt waste your time putting a superior bad ass like a warboss or ghaz ina trukk. They are too easy to blow up. What you need to do is get that important guy in a battlewagon, and shield said wagon WITH the trukks. That way youll get all the way to the enemy before the battlewagon is done in. If your lucky youll have the wagon + a few trukks left over. That way, when you dump out some uber killyness, the battlewagon can go on running things over laughing all the way.

ZZap guns Ive never used, but again, it seems a bit to random for me to try. Sure they CAN blow shtuff up good and propa, but they also on average will roll around a S7. I have however, found good use in a looted wagon with a boom gun on it. All you have to do is pray to Gork and Mork that it hits (or you roll really low on the scatter lol) and that gun does some serious ass-whoppery.

Well, DeffKoptas are great for drawing fire! And they are fast movers . So far, every time I've used them they've drawn more fire than they're worth for up to two turns enabling me to do other more important things and I've won those games.

You could try 2 or 3 small squadrons, one squadron with Big Bombs. Drop them on turn one (as they can go 24" and still drop) and your opponent may assume they all have them.

However I do feel they are a magic trick, use them too much and the opponent figures out the trick.

Of course, tactical plans are often exercises in misdirection.


Also, I agree with KingCracker. Mega Nobs just aren't worth it (Though I love the models!). I find two mobs of generic Nobz (at 200pts if you keep them really bare-bones) can scare the bee-geesus out of an opponent used to fighting custom Nobz, causing him to adjust his movement to deal with them and/or causing him to spend a turn using too much firepower on one spot. Again, the misdirection thing and this depends on how well you know your opponent. The nice thing about this is if your opponent ignores them, they hit hard on assault.

Also to add, I have a serious time of creaming lighter armored tanks with just a trukk and boyz. They can do damage to a rhino on a roll of 6, but damn look at all those attacks, its just like Necrons shooting any vehicle, sure you need 6s to do anything, but you hit them enough and youll hear that sucker explode. Just a thought, you get alot more boyz for the points then a couple koptas

I def. agree with King Cracker but i dont have a battle wagon yet. The BW is my next purchase and i was going to throw in 9 Mega Nobs with Ghaz. Yea they might not be worth the points but their awesome IMO =).

I'll still be running the 2 trukks that i have full of Shootas prob. I'm not a fan of Shootas at all but they seem decent in trukks.

I'm also working on scaling up to 2500 Points. Right now with the build im trying out, im at 2000. This includes:

Ghaz
5 MANz
5x 30 Sluggas (1 nob w/PK)
Trukk (red paint)

Play Testing:
5 Koptas with the buzz saws and Rockets
Deff Dread for the hell of it

I also have a big mek with KFF. Once i get the BW the deff dread is leaving and prob the Koptas as well. Not sure what i want to do. I'm going to head to a game now against my buddies Nids. Ill keep you guys posted on how the Koptas do as well as the crappy dread.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Neither unit is worth it. Orks can't deal with heavy armor at range. Lootas can murder av 10-12 easily, but anything higher is a problem at range. Deff koptas aren't very good, despite what some people claim. The twin linked rokkits hit only 1/2 the time, and vs armor that you are actually worried about (13-14) needs 5s or 6s to even glance. The buzzsaw or bomb on it is just a waste of points. If you want to run them, give them big shootas. Of course the warbuggy might be better if you go that route. (small arms fire still needs 6s to glance av 10, but only 5s to hurt T5)

As for zzap guns, they have a variable strength, so aren't reliable. You still need to hit with them, and they only hit half the time. They are terminator killers (sort of). This is an example of an option that was good last edition, but was made terrible this one. If you must go for the big guns, take cannons. Just don't expect to work wonders with them.

Orks need fast units to deliver S9-10 PK blows to armor. Storm boyz, bikers (either type), trukk boyz/nobs/meganobs, Battle wagons with nobs/meganobs are all examples of what can (usually) work.

No Saws on copters make sure Copters are doing one job not two otherwise they will not do either very well.

As for Zap...I still think they are the best way to take out a land raider for Orks, but not worth it because just too darn random.

notabot187 wrote:...Deff koptas aren't very good, despite what some people claim....

I claimed. and what I did claim is, "...to decent effect...."

If directed at me, please quote me correctly. Deff Koptas are not solid choices in any way and I never claimed them to be. At their speed and in decent numbers I 'claim' to have had success taking out light-armor skinned vehicles with side shots while at the same time drawing a whole lot of fire. I also 'claim' to have used BigBombs to good effect against horde armies. I also 'claim' that they are a part of 'misdirection' tactics for my style of play.

Ultimately, I think it depends on what Bad_Sheep37 intends to use them for. I was giving options and ideas. The games I have played in are for fun, not tournament.

GoFenris wrote:

notabot187 wrote:...Deff koptas aren't very good, despite what some people claim....

I claimed. and what I did claim is, "...to decent effect...."

If directed at me, please quote me correctly. Deff Koptas are not solid choices in any way and I never claimed them to be. At their speed and in decent numbers I 'claim' to have had success taking out light-armor skinned vehicles with side shots while at the same time drawing a whole lot of fire. I also 'claim' to have used BigBombs to good effect against horde armies. I also 'claim' that they are a part of 'misdirection' tactics for my style of play.

Ultimately, I think it depends on what Bad_Sheep37 intends to use them for. I was giving options and ideas. The games I have played in are for fun, not tournament.

Nowhere did you claim they were good. Obviously my comments weren't directed at you. Other people have claimed they are good. They keep showing up in peoples lists. Other posters (not on this thread) keep suggesting them as a viable anti tank choice. (which they are not).

The meta game has shifted due to 5th ed and the fact that anything in the open is going to die to orks. As for what orks do to try and win vs Tankhammer 40k, spamming S9-10 powerklaws on fast units. Sad as it is, that is the best option.

Then my mistake. I apologize.

BAD SHEEP


I noticed you didnt list and normal nobz. Am I right, in guessing you dont have any?! Seriously swap out the same points worth of nobz, as your spending in mega armored nobz, and you tell me which squad is better. I nob the HELL out of anyone Im playing. I ALWAYS have a 12x Ard Boyz squad in a trukk, and then nobz a plenty (remember 1 squad of nobz count as a troops choice when you have a warboss or ghaz) So 1 troop choice is Ard boyz and a trukk, the other is usually 10 nobz, with a warboss, in a trukk and presto thats a legal force organization list. And its a super killer in that low posts cost range. Seriously Ive yet to meet anything that just stops it in its tracks.

The only time a problem occurs is when the trukks take it in a bad way. But if your smart and use cover, you should be able to either mostly get to the enemy, or get there. Either way, your enemy is getting a serious ass kicking. Try it and see whats up.


ALSO ( my god my brain is actually working?!?) Look up a user named STUMP. He made a couple battle wagons from old school Rhinos. It cost him next to nothing, and they look super badass. You should at least ask him a little bit about how he made them. Maybe you can build you a BW, and kick more butt then normal. BW can be serious gun ships for sure. So far I like to use them as a big mob troop transport, and max it out with big shootas. The big shootas, mixed with your shoota boyz you seem to like, will shoot the hell out of anything