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Good evening,

I just got my arse whooped in my second game (though less badly than I lost the first game) of Wh40k and Im back with another question for you folks. Heres the scenario:

It was my turn. One of my units was in CC with one of my brothers units, he had 5 guys and I had 2 guys. When the assault phase rolled around, I assaulted with another unit I had, bringing the total number of units in the melee to 3. I piled in for the assault with the new unit. He had higher initiative on his 5 guys so he got to attack first.

My contention was that, per the rules in the book, he has no choice but to attack the unit he was in combat with in the beginning of the melee (my unit with 2 guys). He said that would be silly because if he killed the unit in 2 hits, he'd be wasting 10 hits on nothing. His contention was that he could attack my 2 man unit 1 by 1 until they were dead, then choose the 2nd unit to attack at that point. This seems to me clearly against the rules as stated, but maybe im reading it wrong so I am hoping you guys can either back myself or my brother up,

Thanks for your time.

If I understand it correctly, guys have to attack guys in base to base contact with them. If it's in BtB with two different units then you must designate.

-=[ If I am incorrect please let me know and I will erase this ]=-

Kaun is correct, you have to designate which models are attacking which unit. However, in order to do so, the attacking model must be in B2B or within 2" of one that is (provided that it isn't in B2B with a different unit).

So, in your situation, your brother is not obligated to attack the 2 man squad.

You have to attack the unit you're in base contact with, unless you're in base contact with more than one unit then you can decide which unit to hit.

- beaten to it, never mind!-

Also, you decide what models are engaged in stage 3 of the assault phase, after moving assaults and defender reaction.

JRedbeard wrote:Good evening,

I just got my arse whooped in my second game (though less badly than I lost the first game) of Wh40k and Im back with another question for you folks. Heres the scenario:

It was my turn. One of my units was in CC with one of my brothers units, he had 5 guys and I had 2 guys. When the assault phase rolled around, I assaulted with another unit I had, bringing the total number of units in the melee to 3. I piled in for the assault with the new unit. He had higher initiative on his 5 guys so he got to attack first.

My contention was that, per the rules in the book, he has no choice but to attack the unit he was in combat with in the beginning of the melee (my unit with 2 guys). He said that would be silly because if he killed the unit in 2 hits, he'd be wasting 10 hits on nothing. His contention was that he could attack my 2 man unit 1 by 1 until they were dead, then choose the 2nd unit to attack at that point. This seems to me clearly against the rules as stated, but maybe im reading it wrong so I am hoping you guys can either back myself or my brother up,

Thanks for your time.

Just to make sure, you do realize that when the rules say "At the beginning of the combat..." the rules are referring to the round of combat for that assault phase, right? So if you have models from two units in base contact with his models after assault moves are completed, then he can hit back on both of your units.

Second, if a player has a model which can attack two units, the attacks can be divided between the two different units but the split has to be declared before any of the attacks for that initiative step are rolled. So, no, he couldn't just kill your smaller unit off one by one and then start swinging at the new attackers, but instead he has to figure out how many attacks will be going at each unit and hope he gets the results he wants.

Edit: Ninja's the lot of ya.

Page 41, under Multiple Combats:

Models that were engaged with just one of the enemy units at the start of the beginning of the combat before any model attacked must attack that unit.

I believe this is what JRedbeard is referring to. And when I first glanced at it, I felt it supported his argument. Then I read it three more times, and now I am no longer sure it means anything at all. What does it mean by attack -- make an assualt move, or actually roll an attack on initiative order? Why would a model not be in base contact with a model after the assualt move and resulting pile-in, but then be in base contact with it after some (but not all) attacks are rolled?

ARRGH, GW!!!!

Sorry, redbeard, your brother was correct. "at the beginning of combat" refers to after assault moves and charge reactions have been completed. Check out the GW FAQs for the errata on this. It says:

Page 41 – Multiple Combats, Attacking.
A third bullet point should be added, as follows:
• Models that at the beginning of the combat
(before any model attacked) were engaged with
more than one enemy unit, but were in base
contact with just one of the enemy units, must
attack that unit.

"before any model attacked". So we determine who is engaged with whom after assault move and charge reaction. What the section that has you confused is trying to say is that if a model is in btb with only one unit, it may only attack that unit even if it is engaged (by being within 2" of a friendly model in btb) with a second unit. If a model is btb with 2 unit, it may attack either or (assuming multiple attacks) both, splitting it's attacks between the two units.

Make sense?

however your brother was incorrect about being able to roll the dice one by one till the guys are dead,a t the begining of the combat he has to allocate which attacks he'll put on the 2 man unit and which on th other unit.

Yep, I misread the last bit of the OP. He can attack both units but must declare who is attacking which unit based on the limitations set by btb, etc, before attacking. Thanks combo

combo wrote:however your brother was incorrect about being able to roll the dice one by one till the guys are dead,a t the begining of the combat he has to allocate which attacks he'll put on the 2 man unit and which on th other unit.

At the beginning of each initiative step, not combat.

Wow, great responses guys.

Ok so we were both wrong, thats good to know.

I appreciate your help!

Drunkspleen. I don't think you recompute who is engaged to who at each initiative step any more.

Page 32:
Working out which models are engaged in combat is
done at the start of the fight, and will not change until
its end,

It's the "not change" bit that makes me think you have to 'allocate' your attacks before the combat begins and can't change them at a later initiative step.

Edit:
Upon further review, the call on the field is overturned. In the multiple combat section, units engaged with multiple units at the beginning of the combat declare who they are attacking immediately prior to rolling dice.

Don what that means is that if at the start of combat you are engaged with Unit A, Unit B but not Unit C, when your I step comes about, so long as you are alive, you can then allocate attacks between Unit A and B regardless of what happens in between (Such as "Tactical Casualty Removal")

Yep, realized that upon further reading.

Never mind, I found the answer to my question I just posted...., I wish I could delete posts....

Edit: Ok so