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Tell me what you think!

HQ - Sicarius = 200pts
Troops - 10 Marines w/, flamer & heavy bolter = 170 pts.
Troops - 10 Marines w/, flamer & heavy bolter = 170 pts.
Troops - 10 Marines w/, flamer & heavy bolter, teleport homer = 185 pts. (Infiltrate)
Troops - 5 Scouts w/ shotguns & teleport homer = 90 pts.
Fast Attack - Land speeder storm = 50 pts.
Elites - 5 Terminators w/ cyclon or assault cannon can't decide??? = 230 pts.
Elites - Dreadnought w/ plasma cannon & CC arm w/heavy flamer and extra armor = 140 pts.
Heavy Support - 5 Devastators w/ 3 lascannons = 195 pts.
I have 70 pts. left over and don't now what to do with them???

*So the Idea is to infiltrate Sicarius with his tactical marines just ahead of the army so they can start causing casualties. The other marines will move up and march with Sicarius to hold objectives. The storm will speed the scouts behind the enemy so they can set of the beacon and the terminators will beam right behind the army (incase the scouts die I have a beacon in the infiltrating tactical squad). The dreadnough will provide support in close and long range against heavy infantry. The devastators will blow the hell out of any vehicles on the table. I made this because my friend plays a horde ork army so I'm expecting them to be advancing quickly! But I also want this list to be able to deal with all other army.

3 Lascannons will not blow the hell out of most vehicles, in fact you will be lucky to cause a single vehicle casualty a turn with just that. For their cost you can get two very nice predator tanks...

The list looks pretty solid. There are a few things I would change though. Right now your Devestators have lascannons, and these lose their effectivness when fighting infantry armies (Guard/Tyranids/Orks...) I would change them to missle launchers, because it allows you to take out vehicles and infantry. Also, I have found flamers to be useless against orks, mainly because by the time you can fire them, the orks are in charge range, and that is bad (for you). Give the Termies the assualt cannon, as it excels at mowing down troops. Other than that, the list looks good!

Two predators with just to TL lascannons. Well I was thinking, since I have extra points, that I could through in a predator w/ chronus and two sponson lascannons, instead of the dev. squad or just add an extra lascannon to the dev squad.

Autocannons and heavy bolters on a predator makes it able to deal with just about everything and only costs 85 points each.

All true but...

-Orkboy232 the reason I want the lascannons is because, I want this list to be my list I use against every army.

-Fearspect I know the predator destructors are good but I need an anti-vehicle aspect in my army and good anti-vehicle, encase of armor 14, and monoliths, and really tough monstrous creatures.

If you want anti-vehicle, replace the heavy bolters in the tactical squads with a more useful weapon.

My tactical squads will be fighting to infantry/hordey aspect of the enemy army. I need the anti-infantry units to stay anti-infantry to improve overall performance.

I have tried what you said and it just does not work for me. The one shot that anti-tank weapons give is not enough for me to dedicate an infantry hunting based squad to anti-infantry/anti-tank. Like I said I've tried the anti-infantry/anti-tank and sometimes its not bad but that's on a good day my friend.

It is called a tactical squad for a reason...

Why use your heavy weapon on 'anti-infantry' when you have 8 other bolters and a flamer in the squad. That is the only thing they can kill (and they are not even that bad at it). Meanwhile, a mech army will just take down your only threat against them quickly and have a field day.

Make them tactical, give them a chance against everything, and remember, they are not meant to fight alone (though they do fine) - they work even better with back-up.

I agree with Fearspect, make your tactical squads more tactical. However, since it appears you may be slightly stubborn, at least switch out the heavy bolters for plasma cannons which are 5 points. These will still do some damage to horde and can take out very light vehicles. On the other hand, if you decide to take a better tank hunter then I suggest the multi-melta since it is free like the heavy bolter.

And get rid of the devastators and use those points towards two vindicators or three dakka preds.

Alright, you both pose a good point. I just don't like the fact that my guys will kill themselves, that's my I'm stubborn with plasma weapons. But every time I've used plasma cannons they kill the hole squads points worth (Hmm just kinda proved myself wrong!). Ill switch the flamers out for plasma guns so I can keep the 24" range. Ill take a multi-melta or plasma cannon for my heavy weapon. What weapon combos work well for you guys?

The_HoFF wrote:Alright, you both pose a good point. I just don't like the fact that my guys will kill themselves, that's my I'm stubborn with plasma weapons. But every time I've used plasma cannons they kill the hole squads points worth (Hmm just kinda proved myself wrong!). Ill switch the flamers out for plasma guns so I can keep the 24" range. Ill take a multi-melta or plasma cannon for my heavy weapon. What weapon combos work well for you guys?

The combos that work well for me are melta with multi-melta. But I still wish to try out a flamer with a multi-melta. But these combos work so well because I use Vulcan.

For you, I would still keep the flamers because if you absolutely need to get into cc you can still shoot the flamer and assault. With a plasmagun you can't since it's rapid-fire. Also, if you combat squad the tac squads then the flamer group has the opportunity to act as flame and assault them squad (though I wouldn't recommend it). As for the heavy weapon, just see what works best for you. I'd say multi-melta but I'm a little bias.

EDIT: I just realized you don't have rhinos for the tac squads not going with Sicarius. Get them some rhinos! And don't forget to throw in some dakka preds or vindies.

Well, try two tac squads with flamer, multi-melta, and one with flamer, plasma cannon, and for god sake add some rhino's, add two vindicators, and take out devs, use Cyclone missile launcher, alot more flexiable then the assault cannnon, can deal with horde and vehicles.

I was thinking of giving the squad w/sicarius the milti-melta...so they can infiltrate and get closer. I'd give the other two probably missiles or plasma cannons.

If I take rhino's then my heavy weapons will like hardly ever get fired. Why not take a razorback for the 5 marines that will actually be advancing?

Not realy, rhion's mean you get to an good position earlier, and fire your heavy weapons more, if you footslog, gonna take a turn or two longer to fire your heavy weapons.

The issue with the rhinos though is that by the time you in said good position though is that the orks are almost on top of you, meaning for less shooting with the heavy weapons.

What about this. Ill infiltrate the one unit with sicarius and they will have a missile. Ill deploy the terminators with them w/ the CML so that should be good support. Then get the LS storm behind the ork/nid army and drop pod the two tactical squads down.

i have found that for me missile launchers work buch better than heavy bolters against hordes and they have the added benefit of doing well against enemy transports, i would suggest replacing your heavy bolters with missile launchers(give one of these squads tank hunters from sicarius and you have a cheap lascannon). im a big fan of the new cyclone missile launchers i would definatly take them over the assault cannon. i would also replace the lascannons in the Dev squad with 4 missile launchers too (there is a theme going here). 9 strength 8 missiles will seriously hurt an opponents transports especially orks and once you make him foot slog it the blast templates will tear him to shreds.

one mistake that i have made several times is believing that infiltrating my marines forward of my lines is a good idea, it may look nice on paper but in practice it leaves that squad isolated and easily destroyed and against armies like orks it actually enables them to reach my lines that much faster. and im pretty sure Sicarius cant join them in infiltrating besides if you do you would stand a good chance of losing a tactical and your HQ to a possible first turn charge.

i would do something like this

Sicarius

10 man Tac squad
melta or flamer
missile
powerfist sarge
HBrazorback

10 man Tac squad
melta or flamer
missile
powerfist sarge
HBrazorback

10 man Tac squad
melta or flamer
missile
powerfist sarge
HBrazorback

Dread
assault cannon
heavy flamer

5 devistators
4 missile launchers

5 termies
cyclone

and still ~60 points to mess with

I'm thinking of swapping Sicarius out for a regular master w/ a relic blade and storm bolter w/ hellfire rounds. This will also give the the orbital bombardment and will be difficult to miss with a horde army.

Have you thought about maybe using Kor'sarro Khan not on a bike with a command squad as a counter charge unit? hes actually pretty cheap for what he does, him and a command squad with furious charge, feel no pain and hit and run. i have used this before and its a nasty surprise. although you might have to take a second HQ if you didnt want to take advantage of his outflanking chapter tactic. do the special characters have to replace combat tactics with their own or is it an option? i cant remember without the book in front of me.

They always replace it.

I'm doing an Ultramarine army...I just love the Ultramarines they were my first army. I wouldn't like having an Ultramarines theme with a white scars leader...you know.

Well i would swap Siciraius out for chapter master then.

yeah that's what I was going to do. w/ a relic blade and a storm bolter / hellfire rounds.